• Report: Ram EcoDiesel to Face a Major Fine and Recall in the US to Resolve the Emissions Case

    2018 ram 1500 limited ecodiesel turbo
    Ram 1500 Limited EcoDiesel V6

    What is the latest on the Jeep and Ram EcoDiesel emissions case? The US Justice Department has reportedly sent a settlement proposal to FCA to resolve the diesel emissions lawsuit (according to Bloomberg). The US government first raised the case last year that claimed FCA had undisclosed engine control software that allowed the trucks and SUVs to emit more than allowed amount of diesel emissions.

    The case involves 2014-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500 trucks with the 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 engine. A total of 104,000 vehicles are involved.

    The Bloomberg report suggests that US Justice Department deal involves a recall and fix of all affected 104,000 vehicles, a sizable fine (some firms estimate it between $460 million and $1 billion). Additionally, FCA proposed a plan to participate in low or zero-emissions projects as part of the resolution.

    We will let you know as soon as more details about this plan are released.

    How does a Ram 1500 EcoDiesel do on the Ike Gauntlet™ – world’s toughest towing test? Here is the video.

    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    122 thoughts on “Report: Ram EcoDiesel to Face a Major Fine and Recall in the US to Resolve the Emissions Case

    1. The government should be fined for spreading the incorrect belief that diesels are more harmful than new gasoline vehicles.

      The new direct injection gasoline motors have emissions that are more dangerous to health than diesels.

      And since diesels use less fuel, they emit less emissions!

      Look it up.

      When the slow to catch up with science governments finally catch up with science, they will be forced by their own standards to do what some European governments are now considering. That is, to require similar filters etc. than the diesels have.

      Look up the science, TFL.

      1. That is the dumbest comment ever. Because a diesel uses less fuel is emits less emissions. Are you serious? Plutonium smaller than a gallon of diesel will kill millions of people. Just because it is small doesn’t make it less deadly. Diesel emissions are far worse than gasoline emissions. THAT is why they are being regulated so much at first. Then you have companies cheating emissions regulations to make a buck and it makes things worse. Especially for everyone else.

        1. You are ignorant of the science that shows that the new direct injection engines more fine and thus more unhealthy particles than diesel.

          I understand, you are just not informed.

            1. Oh wait, I see now after reading the new research that the new direct injection gasoline engines make smaller particles that do not smell or cannot be seen.

              And these gas emissions are worse than any diesel.

              Sorry guys, I was wrong about that. I will look into buying a diesel now.

              Diesels are actually cleaner.

              I just hadn’t read the new research on that from the last several years. I was just behind on the science.

            1. No Trent is correct. Diesels have more carcinogens and without proper emissions emit 100 times worse than a gasoline engine. Proof is in the UK where they are banning diesel completely by 2025. These are industry experts in science. Diesel are only cleaner now when brand new, not when cheating and unfortunately people modify them and fail to maintain them and they become an epidemic.

              This is why the government will reduce the fines if the go with something like a battery car instead of a diesel. The only purpose of the diesel is to hang on the monopoly of burning oil, otherwise by majority no one wants them. Did nothing for the Ram, Colorado or Titan, so it is a big wasted effort but funded by the oil companies so the monopoly can continue. So when you do cheat. The governmment is going to hit these prics with everything they got, which is nice to see.

            2. Rambro, that politicians and bureaucrats take action against doe thing is in itself not “proof” of anything.

        2. Actually Mark, he’s right to a degree. Diesels do use less fuel than gas engines, and because the aggregate demand for diesel *is less* than it would be if all those diesels were gas vehicles, this means less drilling, refining, transporting, and storing. Ocean-going super tankers pollute a lot, 18-wheeler tanker trucks pollute a lot, and every time someone pumps gasoline…greenhouse gases are released in the form of volatile vapors. By reducing overall consumption, emissions are lowered.

          1. Only to a degree. The amount of pollution created by diesel engines (w/o modern, functioning emissions control) is significantly greater than that offset by the higher energy content.
            And then there is the type of pollution you are interested in. Trent is contending that the type of emissions coming from direct injected gasoline engines is more harmful than that emitted by diesels.

          2. funny the demand for diesel is ‘less’. Not really. I work for a company that has 350 power units and 90% of their trucks only achieve, 4.5-6mpg. I burn 500-600 litres of fuel in two days(750km). So the demand is still there. As the old saying goes “if you bought it. A truck brought it!” I have a diesel VW Jetta, powerstroke, and 3.5 EB f150, and 1.5 EB Escape. Pound for pound diesels are better mpg but pollute on the PM(particulate matter) scaleN 10x what the gas vehicles do(D1999,2004. G2016,2018). The particulate matter of new diesels are lower than the new gassers. But there are more components to what comes out of the pipe , other than CO,PM,NOX,HC. Read some articles about diesel emissions or study the changes for diesel emission standards over the years. Like 1994, 1998, 2002 half year 2004, 2007, 2011, 2015, and 2017 half year.

            1. The demand for diesel *is* less than if you were running the same trucks or power units with gasoline engines. Imagine the fuel consumption of an 18-wheeler running a gas engine. In the case of VW (my example), yes NOx emissions were higher than allowed but how much fuel (and thereby emissions) was saved vs running the same VW cars with gas engines?

            2. Not enough. The VW’s were some insane amount over the NOx limits(I wanna say it was like 50x). Unless they started getting 1000 MPG then there was no way they made up for it.

        3. Wrong! You didn’t look it up like was suggested. You assume the EPA god is right and aee helping spread the big lie without realizing it. Diesels emissions profiles are lower in all types except PM and NOx; PM is now near zero in all vehicles, and NOx is a precursor to smog, but does not hurt air quality on its own. It mixes with other compounds, chiefly VOCs, and VOCs come from chemicals and gas powered tailpipes, yet we’re told by liars that diesels are dirty. You could lock yourself in a garage and idle a modern diesel and have a failed suicide attempt. Try that with a gas car and you’re guaranteed a successful death from CO poisoning, but we’re told diesel exhaust is dangerous.

      2. I do believe Mark is engaging in reductio-ad-absurdum. It’s the logical fallacy of extending someones argument to ridiculous proportions and then criticizing the result…

      3. Rambro, Sam, Mark equals stupid.

        Trent, Zviera, Lochief equals smart.

        Proven right her on this page.

        Look it up for yourself.

      4. gasoline engines produce less soot than diesels, this is very obvious. But you’re saying that DI gasoline exhaust produced more “fine” (I assume smaller particles) soot than diesel? Is this what you are saying?

    2. So far Trent is looking like the most misinformed here. It is clearly evident that he does not possess the most basic knowledge of emissions systems and internal combustion engines. In fact his knowledge base is on the level of a typical 8 or 9 year old girl.

      1. He is righht. It’s common knowledge , that GDI engines emit just as many soot particles as unfiltered diesel cars did in the past. Further, the GDI particles carry numerous carcinogenic substances.
        Empa Swiss researchers Norbert Heeb and Maria Munoz discovered large quantities of benzo pyrene a combustion product responsible for cutting short the lives of cigarette smokers—in the exhaust gas emitted by GDI engines. Dibenzo anthracene is also carcinogenic. The carcinogenic potential in one cubic meter of exhaust gas from gasoline direct injectors is up to 1,700 times higher than the EU limit for clean air. By contrast, diesel cars with particle filters exceeded the limit only 45-fold.
        Every tested gasoline car emitted ten to 100 times more fine soot particles than the diesel Peugeot. Under the microscope, the particles from the gasoline engines were similar in size to the soot particles that had given diesel a bad name: primary particles measuring ten to 20 nanometers in size, which congregate into particle agglomerates measuring 80 to 100 nanometers before leaving the exhaust.
        The evidence shows that they can penetrate the membrane of human alveoli in the lungs and thus get into the bloodstream. However, the particles are not the only problem. Heeb notes that liquid or solid chemical toxins from the combustion process, including polycyclic aromatic compounds, accumulate on the surface of the particles, which can then smuggle these substances into the bloodstream like a Trojan horse.

        Maria Munoz, a colleague of Heeb’s from Empa’s Advanced Analytical Technologies lab, took a closer look at the exhaust emissions from the vehicles tested in the GasOMeP project and discovered the combustion product benzo(a)pyrene, a known carcinogenic substance also found in cigarette smoke.

        The World Health Organization (WHO) considers even the tiniest dose of benzo(a)pyrene harmful. The EU settled on an air limit of one nanogram per cubic meter. Levels in exhaust emissions were found to be as much as 1,700 times above this limit. Or to put it another way, one cubic meter of exhaust gas transforms up to 1,700 cubic meters of clean air into a mixture deemed carcinogenic according to the EU standard.

        Once again, the diesel vehicle with particle filter fared much better: in the test, the Peugeot emitted only 45 nanograms of carcinogenic substances—6 times less than the best one of the analyzed gasoline cars.
        Gasoline Particulate Filters are going to be mandatory soon, otherwise we all die like smokers, because of GDI engines.

        1. I believe you are on to something. If the EV lobbyists have their way, the Govt, beginning in CA then EPA, will force exhaust filters on all Diesels and ICE vehicles. Too bad most people do not understand how bad EVs can be.

          1. All of that was just political propaganda. Diesel when modified or maintenance fails they emit 100 times more carcinogens and poisonous gas. Gas vehicles being 6 times worse than a properly filtered diesl is still safe. However 6 times 100 is 600 times worse than a gas engine and this is where diesel becomes a danger. When cheating happens when mods happen and when maintenace is not a priority. Following a modified diesel is like following 17 Gdi carsall in one spot and this is where the danger is and is why the UK is banning them in major cities because too many people including the manufacturers cheat or are too poor to maintain them

            1. More complete BS from Rambro with his entirely unsubstantiated comments. You cannot make sweeping claims like you are and expect to be taken seriously. There is no “6 times” or “100 times” or “600 times.” Those are very general statements and not accurate. The actual emissions produced from a tailpipe is going to vary based upon engine size, vehicle curb weight, vehicle age, maintenance, fuel quality, etc, etc. Do you suppose a 2015 VW Golf TDI is going to emit more or less bad things than a 2005 Ford Excursion with the 6.8L gas V10? Or how about the VW TDI against a 2017 Ford Raptor 3.5L twin turbo? Or how about against A Chevy Suburban with the 8.1L gas Vortec V8? A Dodge Viper with an 8.0L V10? Is it better to burn *more* gasoline (which produces much more CO2 greenhouse gas than a diesel but produces less NOx)? People (including the US Gov) never took into account how much fuel is saved by having 200,000 vehicles burning diesel at a rate of 40-50mpg vs gas at 30-35mpg. By actually demanding less fossil fuel, much pollution was saved by reducing the number of drilling, processing, refining, and transporting hours needed to feed the gas engines. My guess is there actually would be more NOx produced by running gas engines than diesels if you take this into account. Sometimes people can’t see the forest through the trees.

            2. My favorite part of this is the “too poor to maintain them” line. I feel really bad for all those diesel owners who just a few years ago had the money to shell out the extra thousands of dollars to get their diesel, but have since fallen on such hard times that they can no longer afford maintenance on that vehicle.

              Also thanks to I believe it was Jared from one of the other articles for the gravatar info. This may be a bit of a workaround for locking user names to email. I can’t exactly tell what’s in Rambro’s pic, but at least I know it’s really him as long as he keeps it the same.


            3. Troverman dont be a buffoon. Are you saying the EPA tested a Ford Raptor and then compared those tests to a VW diesel Gulf or vice versa to come to a conclusion. We need a median Troverman. If a current gas engine is 6 times worse than a comparable diesel then what happens when people modify the diesel for increased mpg and power. Diesel without the filters emits 100 times the dangerous carcinogens as a comparable gas motor. So in laymans terms a modified diesel is 600 times worse than a GDI engine. People dont modify GDI engines to the extent of diesel modifications because their mpg takes a hit. When both vehicles get old and are not cared for the diesel is 100 times worse and this is the danger and this is why the EPA is hitting back hard because they know companies are trying to meet CAFE standards rather than move to electric. The combustion engine is a monopoly that has to go away because globally the USA is going to be stuck in the dark ages. Electric is a superior power. Diesel is just a means to prolong the monopoly of the combustion motor. Waste of time and resources.

            4. Thats where I sit Paul H and drink Canadian 67 and stare at my Tundra. This is last years pic with the Tacoma.

            5. I am soooooooo grateful for my avatar.

              I don’t know what I would do without this full proof way of keepig my identity on this pickup site.

              Because bein the real Rambro on this pickup site means everything to me. You all should know. I don’t do anything else that means anything to me other than write on this great website. It is my life and my daily happiness.

              If I could not prove for sure that I am the real Rambor, I don’t know what I would do.

              I mean, millions of peole are reading my words every day here. It really brings meaning to my life. I know I can mkae a big differrence here.

              And its amazing what I can do, without even nreally putting much efforrt into it. I mean, I really am not ascientist or an engineer, but I just know on an intuitive level, really a spiritual level, that full electric vehicles should be adopted immediately for everyone and for every situation imaginable.

              It will cost our governments possible trillions to set all this up, but it is worth it! Especially when I consider that I don’t have to pay for it myself. You all do!

              So, thanks. Really, it really means a ot to me that you all read and believe my wordds and trust me. You show your trust by not really haveing to research it your self. You take my word for it. And for that I am grateful.

              And now, you know because of this avatar, it really is me. Your friend and confidante. And we haven’t even met! Isn’t that great? You don’t have to know anything real about me. You just have to see this little fuzzy image next to my typed in name, and complete trust is given without question.

              My life is changed forever. Because your beloved Rambro
              s odemtotu is emsired forever here on TFL. Its the stuff my life is made of.

              Today, I feel like the Tesla Roadster, taking off to Mars to orbit the solar system forever!

              Thank yo umy tru friends. My TFLL buddies. My pickup family.

              Really, I love you. I feel I can say that now that my fuzzy avatar ensures my identity and solidifies our relationship from now on.

              Any time you need anything–anything, you know you can calll on me here. Even though I am thousands of miles away from you, I will come to my computer and write you a well spell checked message to solve all your troubles.

              O.K., well, I have to go to the bathroom now, but I won’t go too far from the comment section, so don’t worry. I’m in too deep to ever go far away. My name and avatar means too much to me, and to you.

            6. Roman, TFL this guy that keeps chasing me on your website is rather ridiculous. Is there anything you guys can do from personal attacks. He is made me his life at this point even taking an avatar.

            7. @Rambro –
              Take the entire fleet of diesel pickups on the road and if you could examine the number of them that have had their emissions equipment removed or modified it is a very small percentage. And if you take a modern diesel pickup (say 2011 or newer) and completely remove all emissions equipment from it, the truck is still pretty clean. It would be rare to see puffs of black smoke simply because the modern fuel system is very tightly controlled. Yes, NOx would be higher than the law allowed. But what’s interesting is that when you see black smoke…what that means is that the engine is being overfueled. NOx is produced under lean conditions with very high cylinder temps. So when somebody “rolls coal” the NOx output is very low, although particulate matter is very high.

              We’re expecting a foot of snow today. I’ll be thinking of you tonight when I fire up my 2002 Kubota diesel tractor and plow my driveway. No EGR, no SCR, no DPF, and 100% mechanical fuel control. It lets out a little black cloud of diesel when it starts and it sure smells like a diesel. I like the smell. Maybe you can put a snow plow on your Tesla.

        2. Zviera is right. I’ve been reading about this for the last 3 or more years. GDI produces more,and finer particulates. This is especially true in booted gdi engines,that are all the rage now.

          The soot,or particulate matter emitted from todays clean diesels is pretty much taken care of by the dpf and the urea.

          However,I believe the diesel still puts out nor N0x then the gdi’s. But again,from what I had read,they only put out more N0x under certain conditions,which I believe is what tripped up the ecodiesel. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

          1. Very few people realize that lighting produces 8.6 million tons of NOx every year. Fossil fuels contribute 28.5 million tons every year. That means nearly one quarter of all NOx is produced *naturally* and is out of human control. It also means humans have been living with a large amount of NOx in the atmosphere for thousands of years.

            Another source of NOx is agricultural fertilization. I’m not sure of the tonnage, but it also contributes.

            People need to relax. Current SCR (DEF Injection) is effective at reducing NOx by 90%. This means there is less NOx coming out of a diesel tailpipe than on a gas tailpipe in many cases. Vehicles in general are cleaner than ever before, and we can breathe easy. We don’t need compromise electric vehicles.

            1. Some NOx at some times and in some places is helpful, it contributes to the formation of ozone-which is needed high up in the atmosphere (where a lot of lightning strikes occur) and detrimental to human health at lower altitudes. Many plants rely on the nitrogen fixation (nitrate) that occurs due to lighting strikes. Vehicle NOx emissions, which occur at low altitudes and in the air that we breathe- are many times higher than occur in nature and as pointed out, occur in much higher concentration and consistency where people are actually living and breathing.
              Some NOx is good and necessary for the environment-too much is not.

            1. Agree. I stated SCR (DEF injection) reduces NOx by up to 90%. EGR helps to lower cylinder temps, but is unfortunately bad to an engine’s health. It is basically oxygen-less end-gas that contains a lot of carbon. SCR is very beneficial because it reduces the amount of EGR needed and as such helps improve fuel economy (also allows leaner burn).

              I dislike the DPF which requires fuel-consuming regenerations and also robs a bit of power and is very expensive to replace, and I dislike EGR as I mention. But I love SCR. It has no negative side effects on the engine’s performance or longevity, and is very effective at making diesel clean. DEF is easy to refill and pretty cheap. Only part bad about it is the cost it adds to a vehicle.

    3. “The US Justice Department has reportedly sent a settlement proposal”?? sounds like the Justice Dept does not have a strong case and if this went to trial, the verdict might go either way?? Otherwise, the Govt would be all over the defendant as in the VW Diesel Emissions cheating case. My two cents on this one… However, still hoping to buy a Diesel GMC Canyon at the end of the year…

      1. It’s very unusual for sure. I am curious, what FCA is going to do.
        I read about this for days ago already, no answer from FCA yet .

      2. Probably because the trump administration is wanting to keep American car companies alive and giving fca the full force of the law for cheating may be a terminal hit for them.

      1. Just because you can’t smell it, does not mean it is safer. Carbon Monoxide has no scent and can make you pass out while you are suffocating on the floor where it is the thickest. Surviving such an incident can also cause permanent brain damage from lack of oxygen.

      2. Go put your head into the toxic sludge used to make EV Batteries and tell me if this is better or worse that Petroleum based fuels??

        1. Sludge can be controlled. You cant control air borne pollution. Entire cities are coated in smog and you breath that in and it sticks to the glass and buildings on high rises. Epidemic in the UK and China

            1. You cannot control air pollution to any feasible solution. Once in the air by the masses the wind blows where it will. We cant currently control that. Maybe by year 3000 we can.

    4. Sure bring your truck in for this “recall” and watch the MPG dwindle. If I had an ecodiesel I would deny any emission recall done to my truck.

    5. FCA and gov will negotiate the dollar amount way down my guess. As long as they right the wrong I see no need to get stuck with a massive fine.

    6. Now we know why the EcoDiesel is a delayed option on the new 2019 Ram half-tons.

      And now FCA gets to participate in low/zero emissions projects as a result. So they get to waste money developing vehicles that nobody wants or buys. Who actually thinks there is a market for a product like this from FCA? Nobody is buying their regular cars. And virtually nobody is buying green zero emission cars. So put the two together and you have a guaranteed loser. So not only are they being fined for the diesel issues, but they will lose a pile of money on their “community service” too. This doesn’t help anybody.

      1. This started under the obamy admin. Since the epa has already started to change over to our Presidents wishes,maybe it won’t end up being like the ‘old boss’. We won’t know for a while.

        1. Ev cars from a global perspective are taking over like wildfire. I doubt Trump is dump enough to keep a dinasour around. He will come to his senses unless he already did. No other car in history has ever been more desired than the Tesla Model 3. 500,000 were pre-sold and other companies are penetrating the US market in the EV world. Ford, Toyota and VW have admitted it.

          1. What exactly is your definition of “wildfire”?

            I think it reasonable to consider the the Prius is the first mainstream electric vehicle in modern history. How long has it been around? 20 years? Total market penetration of electric vehicles is less than 1% of all vehicles sold in the US. About 1/2 of that is in California where subsidies and mandates have driven many of the sales there.

            What is the take rate of diesels among pickup trucks-particularly HD trucks (the only segment in which diesels have been available up until recently). How about lighter duty trucks-which have not had a diesel option nearly as long as electric cars have been around?

            1. Sparky21 the Prius was never a contender. Its an expensive economy car with no charging stations. Everything is turning to battery drive. Take a non bias look at the global market. New ideas and better mechanical inventions are coming up everyday. Even new houses are being built with battery storage and solar, completely independant off the grid bbecause of battery and solar tech leaking into mass production all because of Tesla. He offers extreme performance, luxury and safety for cheap with global charging stations in 4 door sedans. People slept in tents overnight at dealerships just to order one. Over 500,000 pre orders. No other vehicle has inspired that type of reaction.

          2. 2016 – 96 million barrels a day

            2017 – 99 million barrels a day

            If yearly EV usage improves 30%, by 2035, that’ll equate to 2 million barrels a day saved.

        1. How about your standard run of the mill sedans? How are those Chryslers selling? Poorly! It’s a stretch to compare sales of muscle cars to the tiny ecoboxes that will inevitably result from an FCA zero emissions project designed to appease the EPA. Think Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf. Except now put a Chrysler logo on it. Just as Bolt and Leaf sales are minimal, an FCA clone would also sell extremely poorly.

    7. “ECO” Diesel. That’s cute. So not only is the engine a dog up the IKE Gauntlet, but it really isn’t that “eco” after-all. Good job Ram.

          1. Story ? That’s fact. Just wait for the GDI particulate filter- GPF to be installed on any GDI engine. Remember me that day bro.

            1. Hope they do it Zviera. Battery electric, globally is going to take over. The performance of cars in order to be somewhat safe is going to be that much worse. Good news for Tesla.

            2. They will take over only, when cheaper than ICE , and double the battery capacity than today.
              Very hard to achieve even for Tesla.

            3. What other high performance car offers 1000km of range over the new roadster. 200KW battery Zvierra. But studies have the magic number is 300 to 350 miles of range for the majority market. More expensive long range versions can be built for the minority. The Model 3 is good for 310 miles. That hits the majority of buyers.

            4. Like I said, let me know, when I can buy that roadster in your “story” for less, than Challenger with HellCat.

            5. Tesla Model S is already here with more range than a Hellcat. Hellcat on a combined number can only do 314 miles. The Model S can do 650 miles and its faster in the 1/4 mile and you never have to pay for gas or do an oil change.

            6. @RAMBRO and you can fill up that challenger in 5 minutes, where it takes 1.5-2 hours on a supercharger to fill that tesla.

              Once you can get 500+ out of a charge, in a car that costs $30K, with an interior that doesn’t scream “CHEAP PLASTIC” and styling that doesnt look like a drunk college kid got a hold of CAD again, let me know.

            7. Also, model S has a range of 334 miles, NOT 650. The ROADSTER is rumored to have 650, and with a battery that size it will take 3+ hours on a supercharger to fully charge. Get your facts straight

            8. No the Model S does 650 miles now. Look it up. Get your facts straight before telling other. Makes you look double ignorant.

          1. Well, EPA decided, that benzo(a)pyrene, a carcinogenic known by WHO GDI produces is harmless and doesn’t needs to be filtered.
            Someone else is full of it.

    8. Zviera, you are getting hung up on particulate emmisions. FCA didnt cheat on that. They are cheating on NOX emmisions. These emmisions leads to many health and environmental problems. Maybe GDI engines will get particulate filters soon but the cheating done was NOX. They did this for mpg dominance. Reducing NOX has adverse affects on mpg.

        1. Yes, because Nox can be simply controlled by more ureablue, but EPA wants more. They want to kill it and want us to drive electric cars made by Tesla. They don’t care about society health. They would demand GDI particulate filters 5 years ago otherwise.
          They cost just €50.

          1. Actually you can control NOX by urea or adding more EGR. EGR kills mpg but is still needed to a point to control the combustion temps.

            1. Me too but unfortunately it takes both methods to control NOx. If you could do it on DEF alone everyone would do it. Just like the latest ecodiesel calibration. They lost mpg meeting emissions standards. Likely due to needing more EGR. DEF would not cause the loss of MPG.

    9. Wow, I cannot believe how almost every article related to diesel becomes a war between electric vs oil.

      Diesel engines have been around for more than 100 years. During that period, they have become more powerful, more efficient, and produce less emissions. Nobody is dying from diesel engines or gas engines! We’ve heard about smog for a long time, particularly out west. But we are not hearing about a new cause of death…driving a gas or diesel vehicle. The so-called green movement is nothing more than propoganda designed to use fear to help create the next generation of millionaires who will be peddling electric vehicles, solar power, and grow-your-own rainsforest kits.

      1. There is certainly some truth to the impact off an ever-growing number of vehicles-which emit pollutants-driven amongst increasingly higher densities of people. However, the impact is often blow out of proportion and sensationalized. Along with that, many of the drawbacks of electric vehicles are ignored.
        Electric vehicles undeniably have an advantage as to local air pollution. There is the other pollution associated with them that is largely ignored.
        Also, there is a significant cost associated with them as well as the need to produce more electricity-somehow-to power them.

        1. Research shows that the more electric vehicles sold equals less demand on the grid. How can that be? Well there is a small percentage of EV owners who will enroll in a plan when they buy an EV that uses their cars during the day to give back to the power grid in peak demand and charge back up at night. Now this plan does not work for everyone but there is enough consumers that will help the grid. This will intern support the grid for a given time and at some point be too much. How long?, maybe long enough for us to build a solar grid or install battery packs on the grid like what Eolon did in Australia in just 60 days.

          There is also a plan in place that will utilize 99% of an old battery. The lithium is re – used up to 65% or so and the rest is slag for contruction cements or road building. So almost all the material is being recycled.

          1. I can’t wait for everyone to drive electric to curse it every single day.
            I hope, you are going to be the first, stranded in cold winter, in the middle of nowhere . I will drive by and offer you full canister of gasoline I have all the time with me for free. LOL.

            1. Our grid cant handle everyone having a full electric right now. We will first have to invest 100s of billions for that.
              But for now, hybrids, especially diesels that are more healthy and efficient, can contribute to the grid and act as a backup to the powerplants until our grid is strong enough for full electric vehicles decades down the road.

            2. In order for full EV’s to really help the grid, we have to have solar infrastructure in place first.
              That will take maybe a trillion dollars just in the U.S. alone of an investment.
              So hybrids with diesel engines are perfect for us in the meantime.

            3. Just making the point Rambro, that the whole idea that an Avatar is some kind of solution to some kind of “problem”.
              Well, obviously I am making any points. There is just a lot of stupidity here in this comment section compared to other forums, and you guys just need to know that for your own sakes.
              You all may want to take to hearth my funny sarcasm, and make some changes with yourselves, cause, well, ye’all are struggl’n, let’s say.

            4. Trent
              No, you obviously aren’t making any points as your post makes no sense whatsoever; unless of course you pay no attention to spelling or grammar. You know, stuff you learn in grade school. If you find that this forum isn’t satisfying your need for intellectual discussion, feel free to go where you will find your equals. And if there are other forums with more profound user interactions as you suggest… quite frankly, wtf are you doing here?

            5. good luck getting a good price on solar panels now. Wait doesn’t this current guy want to drill and use more coal. Should random screen name guy go back to Washington to fight? Maybe time up with Al Gore.
              Time to check the price of lithium and what mining of lithium does to environment.
              Is bosch involved in this diesel emission setup agian? Hmmmmmmmm!
              Give me price effective and reliable that meets current guidelines, I am good!

            6. Zviera if you run out of gas or battery than thats on the driver. Something called tow trucks for one off situations. Solar is so good now that solar panels on the roof of the vehicle may be an option in the future as well.

            7. Actually a lot more than that Zvierra look it up. Means off road excursions can go further than gas cars can.

          2. You guys are all a bunch of little pussies that need an elbow or two dropped on your swollen down-syndrome heads. Especially Trent. Is that a girls name? Seriously. Let’s scrap. Pussies.

    10. By the way, what parts “are not true”, Rambro.

      Prove it with evidence.

      We have evidence here on this page, you do not.

    11. Electric is a joke. Ever remember as a kid playing with a radio-controlled R/C car? Remember the disappointment when the battery went dead and you had to put it back on the charger for a couple of hours? Now you can experience the same disappointment with your car. Previously when your car got low, you spent two minutes at a gas pump. Now, just like when you were a kid, you can spend a couple of hours charging your car.

      And by the way…how does it sound having a couple of 440V 3-phase battery chargers located in your home? Anyone consider the studies published about high cancer rates for people living near power lines? Well, now everyone can have high power in their home, and in their car. Wonderful! We’ll die of cancer, but it won’t be from dirty air!

      If the goal of electric vehicles is to reduce air pollution, the only possible way to supply this massive increase in demand is with nuclear power. Building a bunch of gas, oil, or coal fired plants would only centralize air pollution, which concentrates it and actually makes it worse than scattered tailpipe emissions. Solar and wind are simply not viable because they are much more expensive, require a large footprint, require specific, reliable weather conditions…and even then just do not make enough power to supply this demand. So ironically, will all the greenies really be in favor of a bunch of nuclear plants, some probably pretty near where you live? I surely would not be.

      1. It takes less than 1% of the USA’s land area to power the entire US electrical grid using solar panels. No nuclear required Troverman. And that doesnt include wind energy and water running on the hydrological cycle. The batteries in my RC car were switched for another battery when it ran out. But that is a 15 minute run. The model S is good for 650 miles and one guy on You Tube did 690 miles. At some point you need to sleep and recharge. The human body is a battery but your post sounds like its running on a lot of gas.

    12. Rambro,
      Your beloved Tesla just reported Q4 earnings: results -$4.01 a share vs. estimate -$3.12 a share while revenue of $3.39B beat estimate$3.28B. Translated, Musk’s experiment in how stupid his investors can be is a roaring success. His scam of a company is hemorrhaging money at an even greater rate than so called experts estimated. His “guidance” tells them even though the Model 3 production is still way behind his projections of 5k model 3s a week by last year, he promises to hit that mark “next quarter”. Fear not, because in several thousand light years, his space ship will arrive on Mars, and the Martians will enjoy driving his red roadster.

      1. Take away all the government subsidies the Tesla is bankrupt over night.

        Electric vehicles are just not practical for every day commuting, Imagine rush hour commutes and drivers with electric vehicles having batteries going dead in stop and go traffic.

        1. Tesla paid its debt in full with 20 million in interest. The government made money from the loan and now the government collects taxes from every worker and Tesla sells USA products globally. Tesla is 95% American made. That more than any other manufacturer can say. Why would you want them to fail?

    13. GM refusing to recall Trucks with deals Takata Airbags.

      For the third time in the past three years, General Motors has asked the U.S. government for permission to avoid recalls of potentially deadly Takata air bag inflators.

      The company disclosed its third petition to escape the recalls on Tuesday in a filing with securities regulators . The financial stakes are high. If the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration lets GM out of the recalls, the company says it could save $1 billion and avoid recalling up to 6.8 million full-size pickup trucks and SUVs from the 2007 to 2011 model years.

      Takata inflators can explode with too much force and hurl shrapnel into drivers and passengers. At least 22 people have been killed worldwide and more than 180 injured. The problem forced the Japanese company into bankruptcy protection and touched off the largest series of automotive recalls in U.S. history. Takata has agreed to recall up to 69 million inflators in the U.S. and 100 million worldwide.

      Takata uses the chemical ammonium nitrate to create a small explosion and inflate air bags. But high humidity and hot temperatures can cause the chemical to deteriorate and burn too fast, blowing apart metal canisters designed to contain the explosion.

      In its annual report posted by the Securities and Exchange Commission, GM said it filed recall paperwork and a petition to avoid the recalls with NHTSA on Jan. 9.

      In the filing, GM says the front-passenger inflators were custom-made for its trucks by Takata with bigger vents and stronger steel end caps than other inflators. No truck inflators have blown apart on roads or in extensive laboratory testing, the company says.

      GM disclosed that it hasn’t set aside money for the recalls, and if required to do them, “we estimate a reasonably possible impact to GM of approximately $1.0 billion,” the filing says. The company is in discussions with regulators outside the U.S. and continues to gather evidence and share its findings, according to the filing.

      As part of a consent agreement with NHTSA in May of 2016, Takata agreed to recall all of its inflators that use explosive ammonium nitrate as a propellant but don’t have a moisture-absorbing chemical in them. The recalls are being phased in through 2020, with older vehicles in southern states getting top priority. Takata has filed recall paperwork for 2016, 2017 and this year declaring the inflators defective, including those made for GM trucks.

      GM filed petitions seeking to avoid the recalls in November of 2016 and in January of 2017 , but NHTSA has yet to rule on them. Until it makes a decision, GM is not required to recall the trucks and SUVs. The agency gave GM until Aug. 31, 2017 to do research on the inflators.

    14. I don’t think we should blame gm at all in this case. As you say the actuators in gm trucks were made with larger vents and stronger end caps and out of all the gm trucks in question, there hasn’t been a single airbag that exploded, on the road or in gm’s testing. Also you claim that 22 people worldwide have been killed and more than 180 injured. But one has to wonder how many deaths and injuries were prevented during the same period because those same tanaka airbags were installed in millions of vehicles around the world. The world is not a perfect, black or white, place. Probably ambulances, police cars, and fire trucks have killed way more than 22 people in auto related accidents over the same time period, just while doing their job. Why don’t you sue them as well. There’s always two sides to every story. I suggest you really listen to both before judging here!

    15. All you guys talk about is which is cleaner gas or dsl. I don’t give a crap!

      Where is it in the Constitution that government has the decision to tell us which is cleaner? You all should be as mad as hell to let government do this! And yet here you are all squabbling over which is cleaner? Government is not in the business to tell us this stupid nonsense. I hope ram fights this , but they will just like rest of the automotive industry cower into the corner and pay this reducalas fine. Ho hum. This why I want cut 50% of the funding to the epa. So this will not happen again. That isn’t going to happen either.

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