• Ford Raptor and Dodge Durango SRT Take One the World’s Toughest Towing Test (Video)

    2018 dodge durango srt ford raptor ike gauntlet towing
    Dodge Durango SRT vs Ford Raptor: Super Ike Gauntlet

    The 2018 Dodge Durango SRT and the Ford Raptor could not be more different. One is a street performance machine for six, and the other is an off-road runner for five. These two are specialized high performance vehicles, and you might think they are only good on one thing. On contraire, the Durango SRT is rated at a maximum of 8,700 lbs towing. The crew cab Raptor is rated at 8,000 lbs.

    How do these high performance machines tow on the Super Ike Gauntlet, fully loaded on the world’s toughest towing test?

    Check out the video for full detail.

    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    296 thoughts on “Ford Raptor and Dodge Durango SRT Take One the World’s Toughest Towing Test (Video)

    1. Only 7000 lb trailer for such powerful vehicles. What a waste.

      Would be interesting to see how they would have handled downhill without the manual shifting.

      1. The bottom line is, the Durango SRT and the Raptor are limited by payload ratings when it come to towing. 7,000 lbs is realistically the heaviest trailer these can tow. This trailer pushes down on the truck with about 700 lbs. The two guys in the truck weigh nearly 500 lbs. This is around 1,200 lbs in the truck, which is the maximum.

        1. So the Durango is a smaller vehicle in every dimension over that of a midsize truck like the ZR2 and it can tow confidently under the toghest towing test without overheating with a 475HP 6.4L V8 under the hood and not overheat. So, so so so so so, where is my V8 midsize pick up truck with all the luxury options the SRT offers. And my midsize will have a longer wheelbase so it will tow with even more confidence than this midsize Durango.

        2. Thanks for doing video’s like this TFL. I just became your 227th Patreon. Hope you guys don’t receive a bill from the bank converting my CAN to US. I had good intentions to actually send money.

          Anyways, you guys primarily do honest reviews and real world testing and its a pleasure to watch.

    2. good video. So 475hp and 6.4 liters is what it takes to keep up with a V6. I’m guessing the mpg difference is due to shape of the trailer and the way the air slams into it off the back of the pickup bed.

      1. We thought about the MPG difference, and a big part of it has to do with turbo vs. naturally aspirated engines. The turbo is partially compensating for lack of air density at altitude, thus the engine is asking for more fuel. A naturally aspirated engine is limited by the environment. There is 32% less air density at the top of the Ike Gauntlet.

        1. And yet the N/A engine didnt struggle at 8 minutes.

          Did the dodge feel like it had more power to give at 60MPH VS the raptor going uphill?

          also, thank you for these kinds of comparisons. It is what makes TFLTruck unique.

          1. must be some weird weather pattern or just winter; my searching shows that barometric pressure for Eisenhower Tunnel is 29.9in hg, which is what the rest of the united states is. along with cold temps i dont think there is any loss in air density

            1. It should be around 700 mbars while sea level is 1000. Winter wont effect this. It will vary slightly depending on weather(drops during storms) but here at my house(6500′) its 800 +/-10 mbar.

          2. This is my thought. If the NA motor was flat out trying to tow up the hill then I could see the MPG’s changing with altitude. As you climb, air density drops, so peak fueling drops accoringly. You burn less fuel so you get better MPG.

            If the NA Motor still has thottle left then that means it wasnt using all the available air anyways and still could burn more fuel.

            The difference has to be that the Raptor is 86″ wide, really tall, and running 315mm/35″ tall tires.

        2. Andre, I really wish TFL would fill the truck before the hill and fill it on the return to check the actual mpg. We are losing the whole metric of what the truck is doing for mpg on the downgrade. How much fuel it burns, average on the way up and down is more important than what it does just going up, is it not? This also gives you the oppurtunity to refill as there are no fuel stations at the top of the hill. This will be especially important in 2019 when Workhorse and Bollinger will add electric mpgs back into their system on the way down the hill. What goes up must come down, right? So why only test in one direction.

      2. They MPG reading is also based on the trucks computers. I highly doubt the dodge is getting almost 5 mpg pulling that load up a hill.
        Short answer being the computer is off giving the mpg reading. Still worth TFL mentioning, but the MPG loop they do are the only times I would really take mpg numbers seriously.

        1. Yes I do not agree with the computer being accurate enough to measure mpg up the hill under load like this. Even on the regular 98 mile loop; the computers have been out many times.

    3. No surprise on fuel economy difference. The huge tires on the Raptor have a much higher rolling resistance than the street tires on the Durango. Also, the frontal area of the Raptor/lack of aero doesn’t help either. The EPA highway fuel economy of 19mpg on the Durango vs 18mpg on the Raptor give some indication of these differences.

    4. TFL, note to self: If time, please test 2018 Navigator 4WD with 7000 lb. trailer weight. (Same engine as Raptor but with EPA highway fuel economy rating of 21mpg.)

    5. This was pretty impressive for both vehicles. I was surprised on how hot the Durango’s engine coolant got and especially the oil. This may be why fca limits power on the ram’s 6.4L. To keep temps under control. Both both vehicles seemed to tow well up and down. I will admit, the Durango sounded really good going up.

      1. Jimmy Johns – – –

        Yeah, Durango! With all the boosted modern turbo-tech, it still seems to come down to:
        “No Replacement for Displacement”! (^_^)…
        (Ooops. did I say something bad?)

        But the Durango did beat the Raptor on:
        1) Towing Fuel Mileage (it had better aero);
        2) Really great, pure (not amended) exhaust note.

        And long term, an NA engine probably fewer maintenance/repair issues than any boosted engine…


        1. Bernie, remember that the boosted F150 engines has easily beaten the tar out of every gasoline engine up the IKE. There is a replacement for displacement, and that is forced induction. Just look under the hood of your new truck sometime. (*_*)

          And as far as durability goes, a turbo engine can easily hold up in the long run. Proper oil, big bearings, long skirt pistons, oil cooled pistons. All of which the Ford turbo engines utilize.

          1. Don’t forget that tractor trailer rigs use turbocharged engines, however diesel. For some reason, when you put turbochargers on a half ton gas, a lot of people think that this is a weak, faulty, trouble prone technology.

            1. That’s because they routinely are trouble prone. They also consume substantially more fuel to keep combustion temps down.
              The problem most (thinking) people have with turbochargers are when low intelligence twits buy into Ford marketing material and attempt to discuss it as if they have any idea what they’re talking about.

            2. What is even more funny is when troll like twits ^^^^ don’t know what they are talking about and have to bash something they have no clue on. For instance fuelly shows the F150 ecoboost at the top of the most fuel efficient trucks.

            3. JimmyJohns, learn the difference between a truck and and engine design for labeling someone else a twit. You are one of the key low-intelligence posters on this site who routinely posts drivel. Try reading a book instead of posting next time. You may actually learn something instead of looking like a fool.

            4. Jeeper. I have read your post and it is confirmed your a moron. You have no clue about how engines work. How trucks work and quite frankly, how anything works. So far you have displayed intellect below zombiera and he barely out smarts a hone bee. So thanks for playing.

            5. Hahaha. Jimmy, you really are exceptionally uneducated. Do you really think, you can insult someone ? You made my day again. Nothing makes me more happy, than your anger.

            6. That is great coming from you zombiera. The guy that has no clue about anything automotive related. You just made my morning. Thanks bro!

            7. Jimmy Johns :November 6, 2017 at 4:04 pm
              “… For instance fuelly shows the F150 ecoboost at the top of the most fuel efficient trucks.”

              I wasn’t going to get involved, but the ecoboost is certainly NOT the most fuel efficient…

              Most fuel efficient is 14-16 Ram ecodiesel (22.5), then the 15-17 Ford NA 3.5 (18.9), Then the 13-17 Ram 3.6 (18.7), Then the 15-17 2.7 ecoboost (18.3). So it is #4 on the list, behind the heavy, steel bodied Rams and Fords own NA 3.5.

    6. Not thrilled about getting the srt option. But this test does make me think about a Durango etc styled vehicle with my beater pickup for trash runs to the dump and for dispersed camping.

      7000 lbs is enough for a 24 foot camping trailer and longer destination camping trips..

    7. No surprise in here. Every test I ever seen proved, that ecoboost is powerful engine, because of 2 turbos, but not eco at all, especially when towing and it’s eating even grass beside the road.
      I am surprised, that Raptor didn’t do better because of 4.1 axles compare to 3.7 on Durango. TFL didn’t show temperatures of the oil , coolant and transmission on the Raptor. It must have been enormous and not surprise again, because of small powerful engine and 2 turbos.
      24% in MPG when towing is a huge difference and I know why, TFL knows why, everyone knows that.
      Every turbo engine uses gasoline to cool down the engine to prevent knocking. A lot of it when under the load , or heavy acceleration. Much more than Naturally Aspirated engine. That’s the big problem with turbos. Raptor is not for someone, who wants to use it for towing and doesn’t wants to listen V8 music just from the speakers.
      6.4 HEMI SRT engine will be my choice, if they will offer it next year in RAM 1500.
      That sound, power and Mpg is exciting and impressive compare to Ford ecoboost.

        1. Yes. That’s common knowledge and not secret, what I posted and you must have agree, because you didn’t challenge that fact.
          I will buy what ever I want to and it’s not going to be turbo V6 I can tell you that.

          1. The Durango actually had a gearing advantage because of its much smaller tires. The OE tires on the durango are 30.5″ vs the Raptor at 34.4″. The Raptor would have had to have 4.17 axle ratio to be the same as the durango.

            As far as mpg’s go, I can’t believe an 86″ wide, factory lifted truck on 315mm wide/35″ tall tires would ever do worse than a low to the ground sport SUV on sports car tires. Amazing.

            1. Yes. I calculated that for my purpose before, but didn’t post it. There is 1% advantage for Durango, but 24% better Mpg, but I think, because of 10 speed vs 8 speed, there is no any advantage for Durango at all.

            2. lets not pass over so nonchalantly the moment of inertia for these two tires. larger mass at a larger distance from center.

            3. Yes, great points guys,

              Zebra is always the first to atack any Ford product it’s a common trait among every thread he posts on.

              Unfortunately he’s always full of c–p and way off track or more importantly topic!

              This time he’s actually on topic, but will soon find himself in a hot mess when FCA debuts turbocharged gasoline engines in the near future!!!

              This will really get intense listening to his propaganda then?

            4. @Drifter, why don’t you just focus on the test results instead of me. I am not buying turbogasoline.
              Turbogasoline engine Mpg rating by manufacturers is done to pleased government and it’s done in not realistic conditions,when turbo doesn’t spool. Real life situation is completely different,like this test proves and turbogasoline engine is less efficient than Normally Aspirated one.
              I read about it 2 years ago and my position didn’t change. I am not buying V6 turbogasoline engine.


            5. Then why does the F150 consistently do better fuel economy Towing and unloaded than “ram with hemi”?

            6. I’m sorry I didn’t dumb it down for you. I forgot you have a limited ability to understand anything that doesn’t come from Sergio and his brain washing he has done on you.

            7. @Fourloko
              The moment resistance difference is minimal ,once the tires are running at constant speed 60Mph, which was done in few seconds. It would make some difference when accelerating from 0 to 60, but not, when running at steady speed. You are telling me, that regular F150 with same engine and the same tire size like Durango has would have 24% better fuel efficiency up that hill than Raptor ? Wow . Genius. Do you know what engineers , government and EPA would pay for this “discovery” ? 24%

            8. Even if we were talking about a regular F150, I wouldnt expect it to get better MPG than a durango. Look at the hood on the raptor in the picture, its like a foot taller than the durango. The regular F150 will be a little lower but no that much.

              Plus, it doesnt matter, I am not going to squabble over the MPG’s because if I really cared about saving $2 a month then I would go buy an Ecodiesel or duramax colorado. The benefits of the Ecoboost are far more than just MPG’s and its apparent in all the tests. When I can cruise along at 70mph in 6th gear towing a travel trailer like its nothing, it makes me happy.

            9. And just an FYI; the F150 Ecoboost, since the 2015 model year, has had nearly a 1 mpg higher average on fuelly that the 5.7 Hemi ram of the same time frame and just as well as the GM’s. Even the 11-14 steel bodied ecoboosts do as well as the current ram.

              So it looks as if the rhetoric that the Ecoboost is just tailored to the EPA estimates is not true seeing as it meets or beats the competition. If you are gunna hang your hat on towing MPG’s only, well, im sorry. A MASSIVE portion of truck buyers dont tow enough for it to matter.

            10. Did you knotice the crickets after your last post Jay. There was a poster that posted that info on here that backs that up.

            11. Wow. 1Mpg difference over 15 years old engine and with aluminium cabin costing billions, posted on questionable fuelly.
              I think I can sleep peacefully.

      1. The Raptor cannot show nearly the engine data the Durango can, at least not on the included screens. It can show transmission temp and oil temp on the factory screens; there is an easy mod to have it show coolant temp as well. Any OBDII scan tool could show all the PIDs the Durango shows on its cool dash screen if people were interested. Personally, I thought the oil temp was extremely high in the Durango. I have towed 11,500lbs with my 2018 Raptor. Oil temp was around 230F after a one-mile hill at 50mph. Not sure of the actual grade but it seemed steeper than the IKE. Pedal pretty much to the floor.

        Your comment about turbo engines using gasoline to “cool” the cylinders and prevent knocking. *Every* gasoline engine does that, not just turbos. Under full boost, the compression ratio is higher on a turbo engine. Direct injection cools the cylinder better and allows higher compression ratios. Knock comes from the cylinder heat and compression predetonating the gasoline injection. That is why high-octane gas is recommended for high performance. Without it, the computer will retard timing to prevent knock, which reduces power.

        No engine is going to be thrifty going up that hill with a heavy load. Fuel economy is, in my opinion, irrelevant on a hill like this since it is only 8 miles and most folks will never encounter this.

        1. And most people dont tow constantly with their half ton and towing MPG’s dont really matter. Everyone gets hung up on that but most of these trucks get used as a daily driver and the occationaly weekend tow vehicle. Ill take a small hit on MPG(fictional or not) for the performance and unloaded MPG’s of the ecoboost any day.

        2. Turbocharged engines consume dramatically more fuel to stay cool, the intake air charge is heated from both compression and from exhaust heat bleed. Stop trying to equate the necessary fuel-rich mixture used to cool in a N/A engine vs. an FI engine, nobody is buying it and you broadcast to the forum that you are either ignorant or dishonest, neither should be respected.

          There’s a reason smart people go water/meth when they go FI.

          1. You really don’t know tuning at all do you jeepers. In reality a NA engine should be ran at a richer mixture under high loads to produce the most power and durability for combustion temps. Usually around 13.0:1. But you can dial it in on a dyno. But due to emissions companies tend to keep the ratio at 14.7:1. But a side effect is hotter combustion temps. Fortunately most people don’t drive around at high loads and it is a temporary condition.

            1. No, gasoline engines run rich under load to reduce combustion temps and prevent knock, not to “produce the most power”, do you even understand the numbers you posted? You can’t produce any additional power (much) beyond stoich, you do know what those “13.0:1 and 14.7:1” numbers that you posted mean don’t you?

              The only possible way you could even begin to try making sense of your silly post, if you’re going to try to make a convoluted argument that the ECM retarding ignition due to knock is not allowing it to “produce the most power”, but if you meant that you would most certainly have just said that, which you didn’t.

              FYI NA engines will routinely dip under 13.0:1, turbo engines even moreso, and require rich running substantially more often due to the additional heat introduced into the intake charge – which I pointed out above and you somehow think you’re arguing against, though you have yet to put a coherent argument together.

          2. And jeepers, most tuners are going e85. Hardly anyone uses water and meth. Well I’m pretty sure zombiera’s mom was on meth when she was pregnant.

            1. What a ridiculous comment and not even remotely true. Water/meth injection is used all over, in both gasoline and diesel turbocharged setups. e85 has EXTREMELY limited availability, and is used by a niche group in the racing community.

              Why would anyone here take you seriously when you make posts this extraordinarily stupid? Do you really think “most tuners” are using a fuel available in a fraction of the country? Try thinking. Just once. Before you post.

    8. FCA is going the way of twin turbo because as nice as the V8 sounds, you can’t overcome the pumping losses of that V8 around town. Cylinder deactivation improves those pumping losses but cannot be engaged at low speeds. Government statistics show that 75% of U.S. driving is “city”, stop and go driving, so other than electric powertrains, small turbo engines are inevitable!

      1. It’s not secret , that FCA will offer V8 for few years, combined with electric assist 8 speed , before they start selling inline 6 engine. My HEMI MDS engages at low speeds easily in the city. There is many different ways to avoid dealing with turbo gasoline engine problems.
        Small gasoline turbo engine is not the answer to efficiency and reliability in my point of view and I am happy, that FCA, GM, Nissan and Toyota didn’t go this road for trucks in North America.

        1. While I may agree that small boosted engines are probable, I would not say they are necessary. They can be a smaller package for fitting, yes.

          But, RAM’s cylinder deactivation does not work at low speeds and at any speed very well mostly due their port injection.

          When RAM puts direct injection (or a combination of direct injection and port injection), then cylinder deactivation works much more effectively at any speed. The GM motors work great with their new direct injection engines. 30 mpg on a Corvette with over 400 hp is great. And it is generally more durable and reliable than a small charged engine, while remaining less expensive to build and maintain.

          Higher compression engines do great with cylinder deactivation, and that is why a diesel would be fantastic with this technology. Here’s hoping for that!

          Can you imagine a Cummins 2500 with only four cylinders? 30 MPG? yes!

          1. My 2006 GTO did 26-27 mpg on the highway fairly easily with the LS2 that did not have cylinder deactivation. And that was a 3800 lb car and less aerodynamic than the vette.

            1. @The real Jay
              I stopped by at Standens and only option for you is to weld subframe, which C$2200 and not worth it.It must be strong enough. Individual bracket is also possible, but they say it’s not strong enough and bends.
              That sucks,but
              you have an excuse for your wife to buy a new trailer now.

          2. I don’t want 4 cylinder Cummins. You can buy one right now for $9,000 and it’s terrible. You need a dual mass flywheel , like GM has to address vibrations.
            I want an Inline 6 but 4.5L.

            1. No, no. You did not catch it. I mean a 6.7 Cummins with 6 cylinders, but the ability to run 4 cylinders or even 3 at a time with cylinder deactivation.

    9. Can you imagine what the durango’s fuel economy and it’s power at the pedal would be if this test was not performed at 11,000′. I have to say I was impressed at how it performed.

      1. As in the economy would be better? Not sure it would matter unless it was at full throttle during this test, which it didnt seem to be.

      2. Fuel economy would be less in theory and science if…..

        …. if you could find a way to use full power or climb a hill without gaining elevation? About 32% less!

        You guys always forget about the air/fuel ratio paradigm.

        The only reason the na engines do better in the mountains is because the computer is dialing back fuel to keep the proper air/fuel ratio – about 3% every 1000′

        At sea level a na engine will get 100% of its available fuel ratio to make 100% of its available power.

        It’s really simple math – at 11,000′ the na engine gets 32% less fuel to make 32% less power!

        Obviously, the SRT Durango did great and had power to spare even at the top where it was 32% down!

        1. Sorry, I meant 33%

          11×3 = 33

          If I’m going to speak about simple math I better at least get it accurate- right?

          I don’t know where I got 32% from – oh wait I got it from Andre’s post above?

          1. Right. I drove cross country in an E-350 Penske truck with a 5.4L towing my Jeep Liberty. Best gas mileage I got was in Nebraska and WY. The reason, because regardless of altitude, I had to floor it on any steep hills. At sea level it had full power but at 8000′ feet near Cheyenne WY the thing was gasping. It could barely climb the hills but it couldnt burn the fuel fast enough to get bad mileage.

    10. Papajim is not going to like this. Sell! Sell! Sell!

      GM shares are tanking after Goldman downgrades the automaker to sell
      Goldman Sachs downgrades GM to sell.
      Firm sees ‘28% downside’ over the next 12 months.
      ‘We see a downward inflection in GM earnings,” Goldman’s note said.
      Morgan Stanley downgraded GM to equal-weight last Wednesday.
      GM shares were up 28% this year through Friday.

      Source: CNBC

    11. Hello, Papa. I tried to reach you, it is time sell GM and buy Ford!!!!

      Goldman’s David Tamberrino in a Monday note said 2018 doesn’t look as good for the Detroit automaker. He expects the cost of rolling out new vehicles and a continued plateauing of sales will hurt GM’s profitability and earnings.

      Crosstown rival Ford Motor Co. is better positioned for next year, Tamberrino said. The Dearborn automaker has more cash, which is forecast to be $28 billion by year’s end, and is expected to perform well in every region in 2018, he said.

      GM has more crossovers in its portfolio than Ford. Competition in that segment is expected to increase, which would put more pressure on GM than Ford, Tamberrino wrote.

      via the Detroit News

    12. It’s been said before I think in this thread. Extra fuel is being added to a turbo engine to control pinging.
      A gas engine, wether it is turbo or not must be about 14.7 air fuel ratio. So when you add fuel above that to control pinging. Fuel goes unburned. It is wasted out the tail pipe. And this can happen anytime you demand full throttle. At any elevation.

        1. Gasoline Turbo’s are not rated unrealistic Zebra,

          It’s all about how their driven and how their used!

          One driver can drive smooth and steady never using the power or speeds and the other is in it all the time.

          Usually this is the the guy running big tires, lifted or leveled front and always trying to go at least 80mph everywhere, and always the first to complain!

          It’s a fact that these gasoline Turbo’s get great economy when being certified by the EPA.

          It’s also a fact that they use the fuel when under power because the Turbo’s are forcing in more air, which needs more fuel!

          It’s like displacement on demand or power on demand!

          1. It’s also a fact, that turbogasoline engine needs more gasoline for cooling the engine under heavy load, or acceleration, than naturally aspirated one and this test proves that over and over again.
            Don’t be mad at me. I didn’t post this test. 24% of Mpg difference is huge and some 1% of difference in axle ratio combined with tire size is a minor, because vehicles are going stady at 60 Mph. Don’t forget,that Ford has 10 speed and Dodge 8 speed, so final ratio could be much better for Raptor than Dodge, even considering the tire size. Who ever wants to post the final ratios, be my guest.
            This is not a test from 0 to 60, where tires mass makes more difference, when accelerating. They keep it steady at 60 Mph, so tire size won’t make any difference,just the rolling resistance does.
            It has been proven by TFL’s tests many times, that computer Mpg is mostly dead on.
            I have to admit,even I didn’t expect this huge difference after all the Ford propaganda.
            Well, thank you TFL for real life testing.

            1. I love when you try so hard. In no way can you compare a off road truck to a street suv other than what tfl did here as a fun factor. But only a fool like you would look at this and again turn it into a Brad war. The fact are this. They both did well. The fuel economy up the hill is nothing but BS. You cannot calculate accurate economy within 8 miles. The computer is notoriously incorrect and not a true accurate measure. I seem to recall ram being off by over a mpg during the driving loop and yet we don’t care. The other fact is that 6.4L was close to overheating. The oil temps were 300F which it hot. Very hot. The coolant temps were also hot. 40F over normal temps. But in the end it was fun to watch but again YOU turn it into a brand war. And don’t forget that the F150 does better mpg in real life than your precious “ram with hemi”.

            2. Just post the links to backup everything what you are saying.
              I trust the engineers and real life data more ,than your ford propaganda.

            3. Exactly Jimmy Johns,

              This comparison as cool as it was, is about as lop sided as one can get.

              There comparing a street based suv set up for primarily street only use to the heaviest 1/2 ton truck you can get set up primarily for off road!

              The Raptor also has the largest tires you can currently get OEM from any manufacturer!

              Zebra, we all know what happens when they compare apples to apples like Power Wagon to Raptor?

              As much as I like the Power Wagon it gets schooled!!!

              Power is way off, acceleration is a non existent, fuel economy is dismal, and it’s Ike performance is probably one of the worst recorded.

              I didn’t do the % math on all the more realistic comparisons between the Raptor and Power Wagon because I actually like it too much- I’m trying to spare it the embarrassment!

            4. The ZF 8-speed has a wider ratio spread than the Ford 10-speed. The Raptor has a 4.10 axle ratio which is going to be less fuel efficient than a 3.73, but it also has much larger diameter tires, which effectively lowers that ratio. Of course, the Raptor tires themselves being a much heavier, off-road tread design tire is certainly going to be worse on fuel economy than the Durango sporty tires.

              I have no idea why we are arguing fuel efficiency of two *specialty* vehicles when towing. Nobody is going to buy either of these vehicles based upon their fuel efficiency, especially while towing.

            5. Troverman, it is pretty much zombiera arguing about fuel economy because that is the only leg he stands on. And it detracts from the real issue I seen. That 6.4L overheating.

            6. jimmyjohns did the SRT actually overheat on the worlds toughest towing test or was it just hot and well within its safety temperatures. At what point above average temps is a vehicle said to be overheating. I did not see any red lights or engine warning systems come on.

            7. Rambro, the engine oil temp was 300F. Depending on oil type. That is over the threshold of heat or kissing the threshold. And they had a cool day of testing too.

            8. jimmyjohns the oil temperature was 293F and TFL did not say this was hot. The said the coolant was hotter than standard at 237 vs 200. What does that mean, standard? Is that for standard operating temps when not loaded.

              Fact is the SRT owners manual tells you to use synthetic oils which handle temperatures over 300F. Use the wrong oil and that’s your problem. Fact is the owners manual states if the vehicle gets too hot it will tell you to shut down and on the worlds toughest towing test with maximum load this SRT went up like it was a cake walk. What do other trucks under this test look like with engine and oil temperatures? maybe base your claim on a comparable here. Fact is it did not overheat and was within its operating range or it would shut down. What would a hot day do? Can you explain what the temperature would rise to on a hot day? Yes the motor was hot but your claim that it overheated or was about to is false. And you have no comparison.

            9. And jimmyjohns, I bet the 707HP version would be even cooler because it would hold lower rpms at the same speed. Be even easier for it to pull this load.

            10. It is hard to say. HP makes heat. Even if you are at low RPM. It will really depend on how the whole system is able to remove the heat from the engine out into the atmosphere. Big oil coolers are a must but so is a cooling system that can extract the heat and expel it. As engine bays get tighter and tighter, it is harder to remove heat. The only thing I wonder about the Hellcat engine is the oil they run. 0-40. I would have expected a 5-50 like Ford and some others use instead. It really helps with heat under high load and keeping the film strength under high loads.

            11. The Durango has two vents on the hood, not sure if that is functional, but if heat rises than just expel the heat out from the hood. Most trucks have a solid hood so the heat is trapped. I imagine if you add even larger vents on the hood you can expel even more heat out from the top of the hood.

            12. It really doesn’t do any good if the vents are not in a good position. Just because there is a hole it doesn’t mean it will work. I don’t know if you have ever looked at an air cooled 6 cyl boxter air plane engine but they have small inlets and smaller exits for heat extraction. It is how they are positioned that really counts for cooling.

            1. Zebra,

              Should we now take away the Turbo from the Cummins 6.7? How would that sell?

              Should we lobby against the entire trucking industry and tell them Turbos are no good because Ziviera and Ferrari say so???

              Could you imagine any diesel engine without a Turbo, like it used to be 40-50yrs ago? Pathetic!

              Why do you think Turbos even exist?

              It’s actually quite proven that with proper engineering, Turbos achieve exactly what they are designed to do!!!

            2. Drifter, Amen man, only now are gas engines finally getting turbo power proven to be reliable and now defeat the diesel in torque at lower rpm’s and defeat the HP. They do lose on mpg but gain it back on overall cost of ownership and with the gas motor you get superior HP and acceleration.

            3. Sorry Zebra,

              You are wrong as usual. A Turbo doesn’t know what kind of fuel is being used!

              There is nothing different about the Turbo mechanically between Diesel or Gas. The difference is the application and where and how its mounted.

              The Modern Diesels actually have more complex turbo’s that are controlling their pitch and also their exhaust brakes.

              Diesel Turbo’s are actually more prone to malfunction than the gasoline Turbo’s because of the extra complexity and soot being re-introduced back into the systems from EGR!

              You are also wrong about more fuel being haphazardly dumped into a gasoline turbo engine to cool it down!

              It’s no secret that the factory tuning keeps it on the richer side of the 14:1 ideal air/fuel ratio under extreme power demands, but that’s as far as it can go and be EPA legal, and certified!

              Same situation with Diesels only Diesels dont have to run under the 14:1 ratio rule. They can go much leaner under low power demands and save fuel. Gasoline needs to be as close to 14:1 as possible all the time.

              The real reason more fuel gets added is because you’ve got (2) freaking Turbo’s adding tons more Air.

              Stuff in more air Computer says more fuel ⛽️

              This is all closely monitored and EPA certified!

              If you ran an air/fuel ratio meter up the Ike with both of these two engines 6.4 Hemi / 3.5tt you would be proven wrong and no more argue!!! You would see the computer doing just as I’m saying and the air/fuel ratios staying very similar turbo or not.

              You will also see much higher oil temps in the Hemi because of the increased much higher RPMs!

              I don’t know why you’re being such a hard headed un know it all?

              You’ll have your day to shine about gasoline turbo’s and FCA – its just around the corner!

            4. TLDR.
              We are talking about gasoline turbo engine in here. Diesel turbo engine works completely differently. Extra fuel is for more power in turbodiesel, extra fuel to make rich mixture is to cool down the gasoline turbo engine.

            5. Ziera; How can you claim the ecoboosts do worse towing, when the same website you comment on shows that they do no worse than any V8 gas motor, with the exception of the GM’s? In fact, the 2017 F150 3.5 beat the 2×4 hemi ram’s mpg’s and the nissan titan on the 100 mile loop test.

            6. You are comparing different 6.4 engines, different paypoads.
              I don’t claim anything. TFL and engineers did.
              I am just a messenger.

            7. @Jay, no one questions , that ecoboost is efficient running empty across the flat country.
              This test is toughest test on the world pulling heavy load up the steep hill for 8 miles and ecoboost is not efficient , when doing that.

            8. Lol, you are back pedaling. Even putc has performed several hundred mile mpg loops Towing and the ram was always last. Even though it “ has hemi” LOL😂

            9. I was not talking about the 6.4, I was talking about the 2016 Ram 1500 2×4 that did almost 1 mpg worse that the Ecoboost with a lighter V-nose trailer. The only gas half ton that is better so far is the GM.

              Even if the Ecoboost truely is worse on climbs(and not because it actually makes power), I live in Utah and I dont spend my entire time towing on IKE Gaunlets. 8 minutes up a steep hill has little effect on my 4 hour drives.

            10. You do realize that you get your butt kicked on this forum and putc right. That is because your a brain washed fiat sheep. Notice how everyone loves to make fun of you and prove you wrong.

            11. Hey zombiera, maybe you can get together with jeeper. Combined you should have the intelligence of a ground mole. That should help you 2 out.

      1. Buddy,

        That is the most inaccurate statement one could make about unburned fuel out the tailpipe!

        In a modern day fuel injected, computer controlled gasoline engine the engine is constantly being monitored by several different sensors at all times.

        The computers job is to keep it running as close to a near perfect, most efficient, 14.1 air/fuel ratio as possible.

        It’s constantly adjusting for altitude, temperature, load conditions, throttle positioning, gasoline quality and so on.

        On Ford’s Ecoboost it has knock sensors that sense for fuel octane levels and adjust timing which increases power on vehicles originally programmed for regular. If it senses 91-93oct timing gets changed and power goes up!

        If the sensors detect detonation or pinging timing gets adjusted and powet goes down.
        If sensors detect it’s getting too hot, fuel gets pulled back, boost get lowered, power goes down, and she cools off!

        Now in the old Carburetor days an engine tuned for Sea level trying to run at 11,000’ would be seriously out of wack and running extremely poorly with the improper air/fuel ratio.

        Lots of wasted fuel in those days, some getting burnt off in combustion, some washing past the rings, and etc

        1. “If sensors detect it’s getting too hot, fuel gets pulled back, boost get lowered, power goes down, and she cools off!”
          Well, you would think, but that’s not what’s happening. Lean mixture and it’s hotter. To cool it down, more fuel is sprayed in to the air and wasted.

          1. Actually your wrong. Again. Once 220F is reached the low speed cooling fan kicks in. Once 240 hits the high speed cooling fan kicks in and the A/C clutch is disabled. Once 270 is reached a fail safe program kicks in and the throttle body plate is closed to a predetermined fail safe point with limited power. In some cases programming can shut down cylinders at random to help reduce heat and control the over heating.

            1. Yes. And before that , more gasoline is sprayed to make a rich mixture to cool the engine down immediately to prevent knock.

    13. I did 400km this weekend in my daughters 2015 Jeep SRT with the 6.4 V8. I can tell you it is a unique and rare machine. She has a 6 year old and just had twin boys so she has to trade for the 7 passenger Durango. She tried the regular Durango but it drives like an SUV and or minivan and she hates that, she has to have something sporty and still carry two child safety seats and somehow get her 6 year old daughter in the vehicle. She test drove the 2018 Durango and its basically a bit larger than her truck but not by much but what is unique is that she can put the two baby seats in; and Durango offers the option of not having the center console between the seats so her 5 year old can pass through the center of the seats and get in the back. We went to look at a Landrover 7 passenger for kicks but the salesman said what most people do is make the kids jump in through the rear hatch which is rather impracticle because the two baby seats are in the way so you would have to take one out and reattach it everytime to get your kids in the 3rd seats or have them step over the second seat with mud and snow on their boots, yippee!

      With the Durango she gets a 7 passenger vehicle that corners like a Porsche which is her preference but not so great on bumps but she loves sportiness more than body roll that comes with the softer SUV type suspension. And the kids can pass through the 2nd row seating and get to the 3rd row without removing the baby seats. The Durango had a louder exhaust note as well. She does not like the depreciation she lost but she loves that she is driving something unique that makes her feel good so she puts value on that and she can afford it so why not.

        1. I wish ford ecoboost has more power than HEMI 392 and better mileage pulling heavy load up the steep hill, but this article and video provided by TFL was the last nail to the ecoboost propaganda coffin.

            1. I will make it simple for you. The 6.4L in the ram is a turd. Because of design flaws it is limited to 29 mph pulling a trailer up the IKE. The F250 made it up the IKE is almost 1/2 the time the slow moving ram took. Ram should include some horses to help it pull up a hill.

            2. Actually it is on TFL for the world to see. In fact, several years in a row showing the ram 2500 is slower up a hill than a 80 year old grandma on a wheel chair.

            3. Yes you are right. Focus could’t make it even with 2000lbs trailer up that hill.
              Don’t give me that look. It’s related. It’s ford.

      1. Rhetorical question. Those wondering why this performed so much differently than the HD or powerwagon need to understand they are completely different engines, with completely different tuning. Great results for both given towing up a mountain isn’t either’s primary design function. Fuel economy comparison doesn’t mean anything if not hand calculated. 4.10 isn’t quite right for 35s but the 10 speed eliminates that. Personally, give me big v8 any and every day in every scenario over turbo v6. My 5.7 Hemi vehicles have never felt lacking. 3.5 ecoboost vs 5.7 hemi are within .5 MPG real world averages per fuelly (pre 10 speed).

        1. Agreed, just drove the SRT Durango in Toronto in pure Black and it is the Best looking SUV on the market, its almost scary mean looking. Definitely a beast and the acoustics suit it well and it handles like a sports car. Defies all logic.

    14. 2017 F150 10 speed , with same tire size like Durango, with max towing package pulling 9000 lbs up the Ike , 3.4 Mpg on TFL test.
      Just for perspective. I don’t think it will ever do 4.7 Mpg pulling 7000lbs.
      That’s 38% of Mpg difference.

            1. You got me there. You are incapable of thinking. At least on your own. Sergio has you pee pee whipped into his propaganda.

            2. Wow. HEMI 5.7 was pulling same weight 9000lbs, RAM was fully loaded and heavy as hell and it did it in 7:44. Much faster than ecoboost. I am impressed.
              Thank you for this video.

            3. Actually they exceeded the speed limit. That is the only way you can make it up faster than 8 minutes. All ecoboost trucks they cruised up the hill at half throttle and claimed they could set the cruise control the ram was floored the whole way up. And that truck was not heavy. It was a 4×2 truck and no parasitic loss of a 4×4 system. Sorry but you loose, again.

            4. The fully loaded RAM was heavier than aluminium Raptor and RAM was pulling 9000lbs, not just 7000lbs like Raptor . On top of that, RAM was 15 seconds faster. No overheating the HEMI.
              Wow. That’s proper engineering. I will definitely sleep peacefully now.
              You should think all night long, what went wrong with Ford PR department.

            1. No. That’s why all the manufacturers spend millions to build a wind tunnel to test the vehicles in 1:1 scale and not in China made small room scale for 5 buks . Ferrari use to pull vehicles in the pool to simulate a high speed testing.
              Scale is everything. You better study what Reynolds number (Re)is.


              Your pictures are useless.

            2. Nasa is right. You are wrong.
              Did you study what Reynolds number is ?
              Scale is important and you will get different results ,if scale is different.

    15. Such back and forth on two vehicles on gas mileage going up a MTN just seems down right silly. I really don’t put a lot in the fuel mileage test going up this MTN.

      Though temps on the Durango might be my biggest concern. When you get hot you don’t give a crap if you have better fuel mileage or not. Tfl does this extreme Ike test to see the vehicle vulnerablity and how well it does. We just witnessed how vulnerable the Durango might be with a ld. I think this would give me a pause in buying this vehicle if doing any heavy towing.

      1. We just witnessed,that Durango didn’t ovwrheat, because no any alarm ,or engine stop procedure required.
        We just witnessed,that Ford had 24% ! worse mileage than Durango and we just witnessed,that we don’t know Ford’s coolant, oil and transmission temperature.

          1. It wasn’t 300F. We don’t know what fords temperatures are.
            Yes that’s great engine, if you can run it at high temperature and it doesn’t overheats.
            Ecoboost couldn’t run that hot. It would melt.

            1. What would be impressive is if the engine could have stayed cool. That was not impressive at all. Maybe the warning light malfunctioned. I’m so glad that is not my engine that had oil temps at 300F.

            2. Yes . One engine stayed cool. Ford250 up the Ike with broken pump, fan, belt shroud and everything around it. LOL.

            3. A lot better than entire ram trucks burning to the ground from failed water pumps nationally. The Ford was a one off. Oops did I say that out loud?

        1. Zviera I know you are big fca fan , but if I had to choose and most people seen the video probably feel the same way this almost 300 degree temperature reading would give most people a pause in purchasing the Durango. Now this Durango is capable of towing and it went up the MTN with out any drama, but if heavy towing is what you are going to use it for then this temperature reading does give a buyer a look the other way. I’m sure know one is going to think otherwise and if they do they are just fools. That is the bottom line.
          We also know that we don’t know what max temps are for this transmission is.
          If I was the buyer and I wanted something to haul ass in and sound good I would buy a Durango, but if I was buyer and I wanted to haul a trl all the time I would get a raptor. I believe most people that are sencesable after viewing the video would feel the same way. Transmission repair cost thousands, gas at is just a few dollars more.

          Tfl great test !

            1. What we do know is dodge was deep frying a whole chicken in that smoking hot oil. That is what we do know. 😂 😂 😂

            2. Ok. Dodge is designed for that. No alarms triggered. We don’t know Ford temperatures, so hold your judgement.

            3. I didn’t know that the Durango would cook your chicken while you drive. They should advertise that. It could be one of their “class leading” slogans. “Buy our Durango, it will deep fry your dinner while you drive”.

            4. That is called brash wash denial. You have an acute case of it. It comes from “fluffing” Sergio. When he sells of FCA to the Chinese and retires, you should recover in 2-3 years. The Stockholm syndrome is hard to get over too.

            5. And what if it was normal ? Then what ? At least fca put a oil temperature gauge in the Durango so you can at least pull over to let it cool down so it want melt down. Might be the smartest thing they did.

        2. Ford’s temps never even got to 225*

          At 225* Fords temperature gauges start to display a digital readout above the bar graph.

          If Ford’s temp never reaches 225* then no numbers are present, which is what you can see – no numbers!

    16. Zombiera, maybe you could comment on how Fords V6 had better engine braking down the hill. That’s pretty impressive isn’t it? Where you not the one that was talking about the F150 brake temps when the trailer brake controller was not set up properly?

        1. Zviera
          November 7, 2017 at 10:36 am
          Yes, that’s impressive. Ford is great at braking, towing, hauling,reliability and fuel economy.

          Here it fixed it for you again. You can thank me later. Hahaha

            1. Might as well start now. Ford dominates over the ram 1500. I forgot to add, the F150 is a safer truck in a crash too.

            2. Zviera, you are an FCA fan boy, you need to lighten up on the Ram juice. jimmyjohns and Dan, from what I read optimal oil temperature is suppose to be between 230 to 260 degrees, the fact it went up 33 degrees over optimal on the toughest towing test does not scare me. In fact the whole reason the Dodge owners manual states to use synthetic is because it is likely expected that the engine will reach 300 degrees or more. Oil temperatures need to be high to burn of water from what I read. The hotter the oil is the better for the rings so long as the oil can remain in tact as it is said to reduce friction and this saves on gas. It is very likely that this high performance engine is meant to run with hot oil as the article states below racers are looking for oils that can handle over 350 degrees because they want the oil to be even hotter.

              Be great to see what the temperature is in other trucks running that hill, but since we do not, how can you complain about the SRT being at 293 when this could be the norm for other trucks as well? How do you know any different?


            3. Rambro, the temp of the oil is not necessarily the real scare, it is what the oil does at those high temps. As the oil heats up it will thin. That is why oil pressure drops hot. As it thins out, the oil film needs to remain intact under higher loads. Like racing and towing. If the oil gets to thin you run the risk of the film strength not holding up as the big end of the rod comes down on the crank. So yes, you need to have oil that is warm. As you said, it helps get rid of the moisture in the engine. The thinner oil also helps with fuel efficiency. That is why we are seeing 0-20w and 5-20w oils in just about everything. But a control able temp is still needed to keep the bearing from touching the crank.

              I know this is not a diesel, but in diesel engines you don’t want to see that kind of separation of temps between coolant and oil temps.

            4. jimmyjohns the oil temp was still safe as full synthetics can handle temperatures in excess of 300 degrees. This specific engine likely wants to run hot oil on purpose. If the coolant is still below 300 at 230 than it is still functioning to cool the oil is it not. Maybe this performance motor is set to run hot oil for the benefits, the coolant still had plenty of room left to keep it cool and below 300F

            5. Rambro, the temp was 239F after they slowed down and entered the tunnel. I bet the coolant temp was low to mid 240’s peak. Oil temp usually takes longer to cool so it likely stayed at peak temp when they showed it.

            6. And take a look at the video again and focus on the temp guage. It is kissing the overheat range.

            7. The temp guage shows overheating at 260F. So it was 15-20F from over heating. And it was 56F outside on that run. The T Stat was fully open and had cold air for the cooling system.

            8. So when its 112F outside jimmyjohns will the SRT overheat? Were the fans on high? Was the truck in the process of bringing the temps down? I seen it go from 239 to 237, not the other way around? Warning lights did not come on? And again, what do other trucks run at up this hill. If normal operating is 260F for the average motor running hot than what does a performance motor run at under full load up the gauntlet? Again what are the other trucks running at? If this is the worlds toughest towing test than what would 5.3 GMC be at pulling 11,000Lbs up the gauntlet or its max load at 60mph? Do you honestly believe the motor will be sitting pretty in antarctica or maybe just maybe it will be sweating its bag off as well. If you dont know than you have no basis to say it was overheating or about to. Maybe the motor has a lot more in it and it will surprise you, should you push it even more, who knows, but it made it and to me it had reserve in it for a hotter day.

            9. Rambro, overheat is 260F. Normal running temps any engine is 195-210. So when they were in the tunnel after slowing down the engine was cooling. After they played with the screen the temp dropped 2 degrees. So it is perfectly logical that the 1/2 mike between lifting on the gas the cooling fans were starting to overtake the engine temps and bring it down. I have said this already but pretty much all manufacturers set high speed cooling fans at 240F and turn off the A/C compressor to try and control the temps. No body in their right mind would want their engine to keep at those temps. It is not normal. Especially for performance engines. They are the ones that need cooled even more due to their specific output. So to say 260F is normal when it is at the top of the gauge is not correct.

            10. If this helps Rambro, my class A motorhome with a Ford V10 at 24000lb give on a climb in that duration only hits 215F. And that is floored and slower than 60 MPH. I can hear the fan kick in to control temps.

            11. Jimmyjohns you are comparing apples to oranges. Compare something that ran the gauntlet in 8 minutes under their full load condition under a similiar day and show me what the temperature of the truck is. No truck under the toughest towing test there is will be running cool and maybe most of them are close to overheating as well.

            12. It is a comparison. On the end, that Durango was close to overheating on a 50F day. Yes it was under max Towing and an extreme hill climb but the fact is, the engine was close to its heat limit and the engine oil proves that.

            13. Rambro, check the Raptor footage again. The temp gauge is below the half way mark. Clearly not as high as the durango.

    17. Bottom line is, Durango had 24% better Mpg than ecoboost and didn’t overheat. We don’t know what Ford’s temperatures were. Maybe 5F from overheating. Who cares.

      1. Think about this, the Raptors temp gauge was below the mid line. Running cooler than the Durango. And the Durango used according to the lieometer used 1.7 gallons of fuel while the Raptor used 2.1 gallons. I will pay the extra $1.06 and know my engine is running cooler than that Durango up that one hill.

        1. You didn’t get it Jimmy. Ecoboost will get 24% worse economy all the time pulling heavy load up the hill. Not juts one time fee on the Ike.

          1. No you don’t get it. Durango with “hemi” will exceed normal engine and oil temps up a hill Towing. Much rather put .4 gallons of fuel over an 8 mile run than run my engine at 240F and oil at 300F.

            1. We won’t even mention the worse downhill engine braking of the Durango vs the V6 Raptor. What was it again? 9 brake applications even with TFL doing their best with downshifting?

            2. Haha, my point is hemi was running at 240F and oil was at 300F. Hemi needed 9 brake applications plus extensive shift of the transmission going down hill while the Raptor just cruised down the hill like nothing was there and rocketed up the hill staying cool as a cucumber. I will take that anyday over what I seen Durango doing.

            3. And I’m pretty sure I seen the ram 2500 with “hemi” still trying to get up the hill when it started last week.

            1. Yes “hemi” was and the whole world could see it. Plus the whole world seen the Raptor out downhill brake compared to “hemi” and we all can see the Raptor temp gauge below the 1/2 mark. It is quite amusing if you ask me. “Hemi” cooking french fries in its super heated engine oil and the Raptor just cruising along like there was nothing behind it.

            2. Your right. The coolant temps were closer to 242F-244F based on the time, distance and cool down rate. So “hemi” was over 240F and was cooking Canadian bacon with the 300F enine oil.

            3. Did you notice how cool the Raptor was running with its temp guage below the 1/2 mark. Now that is proper engineering.

            4. It’s even more expensive to meld down and engine. But whatever works for dodge. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

            5. Jimmyjohns you no nothing about the running temperatures for the SRT. It could run that hill at 122F outside all day long and not overheat. Everything you say is pure speculation. The motor could be running that hot because that is exactly where Ram engineers want that engine to run at under load, race engineers want oil temperatures at 350F according to my previous post, hot oil may have saved gas and if the warning lights are not on then the vehicle is within its limitations and it will sit there all day long for infinity. You have no idea where that motor should be at on a run like this or whether or not it was close to overheating. Just because the Ford ran cooler does not mean the SRT should follow suit. Ford engineers set that motor up to run that way, Ram engineers set this motor up differently and it may have saved fuel if the computers are correct. Read the article I posted, every engine can be set to run differently, comparing one that will overheat at 260F to one that will overheat at 300F and saying the one at 260F is running cooler than the one at 290F is correct but the Ford motor that overheats at 260F is cooking itself and warning lights are going off where the Ram at 290F is still sitting pretty and cooking us diner. So your arguement is rather ridiculous. To say one engine is running cooler serves no equal comparison unless you know what that engines operating parameters are suppose to be.

            6. Actually I do rambro. You are just trying to hard to resist the facts. Study engines sometime and you will see engines are all designed around the same temp limitations. I’m sorry it don’t agree with you but it is what it is. Feel free to block your radiator so you new Toyota runs at 240F and let me know how that works out for you.

            7. Another thing you didn’t entire rambro is the boiling point of antifreeze. The coolant is hotter in certain areas than others. The heads are the most critical point for cooling because they are aluminum.

            8. And its ok as well jimmyjohns because I dont agree with you. Blocking my radiator on my Tundra is as dumb as your statement. My Tundra engine is not the SRT engine. They both may have different operating temperatures. Studying standard engine temperatures may have nothing to do with the SRT engine. Maybe it is not standard. I guess race engines that run oil at 350F should cook more chicken for the fans at the race track or would that burn the chicken.

            9. Rambro, there is nothing magical about the 6.4L. It is still cast iron block with aluminum heads. It still works like every other engine. There is no secret aluminum formula that can mythically operate at higher temps. It also uses a 200F thermostat. Which full opens at 215F. That means after that the cooling system is at full capacity. So as you go past fully open the cooling system is not keeping up.

            10. Jimmyjohns I am not a mechanic and I take you are not either and I am not buying your mythical story tale time. I know from common sense that not all engines are created equal. For you to say they are is rather suspicious. You and Zviera have created your own little backyards with fences that run so deep they likely connect to the bottom side of the great wall in China.

            11. Jimmy is right about the extreme temps – not good for any engine!

              Let’s do some chemistry and get scientific about it:

              Water boils at 211.9* F @ sea level.

              At 10,000′ it boils at around 195*

              Then you add for pressure – about 3* per psi. So with an average these days of a 21psi radiator cap that’s 3×21= 63*. 63+195 = 258*

              So at 258* that Durango would of been puking it’s guts.

              No, it didn’t quite get there but it was uncomfortably close on only a 50* day and the oil temps were right on the limits!

              There’s no magic ferry dust engine Rambro that’s made of super performance Duty that’s possibly in a Durango. They all are working with the same materials and chemistry limits!

              Too hot is too hot! It’s all about longevity. Sure the Durango made it this time, but it was on the ragged edge and seriously compromised durability in my opinion!

              Go put a scan gauge on your new Tundra and tow 7k up the Ike on a 50* day. I’ll bet good money your coolant temps don’t even get to 210*

              Toyota runs there trucks to stay cool with 195* t-stats and big clutch fans that kick on hard by 210*. Sure mileage may be down a bit comparatively speaking.

              However, this is a big part of why Toyota engines last! They also run larger oil capacities than standard to keep that side cool as well.

              My wife’s RAV4 holds 6qts of oil. My 2006 Tundra holds 8qts!

              A Cummins 6.7 holds 3 gallons!

              Ford doesn’t even kick on the low speed cooling fans until 204* and high kicks in at 220* it cools quickly though even on 119* days on my 2015 2.7tt.

              I wouldn’t want that SRT after that run up the Ike!!! It got cooked.

            12. Durango wasn’t running on extreme temperature.
              Maybe it’s extreme for ford ,but not for Durango, because not any light warning.

      2. Ford’s temps never even got to 225*

        At 225* Fords temperature gauges start to display a digital readout above the bar graph.

        If Ford’s temp never reaches 225* then no numbers are present, which is what you can see – no numbers!

          1. We know you don’t care. that is the problem. You don’t wanna look past how great the Durango wasn’t on that day it went up the MTN. Sure it went up the MTN with out any drama , but there is that one underlying issue it had and that is heat.

            I would like to see Dodge explain this issue with temperature read out and tell us what is max temperature it is. Sitting here all speculating is not getting anywhere. I do believe it is a concern if you plan on heavy towing with it.

            1. Marc it could very well be that the Durango has a safety for coolant temperatures at 240F. We seen it go from 239 to 237 so it was cooling down. From Dodge forums all owners claim their SRT runs at 217 to 223F and the owners manual states it will run hotter than normal in mountaneous terrain and when pulling a trailer. It could very well be that the motor went to 240F and knocked itself down to 230F 10 times or more during this hill climb as a safety feature could be built in to kick on at 240F to cool the engine down even under hotter days. The gauge goes to 260F and a warning light never came on.

        1. So Drifter was it at 224 then? Where was it. I seen 239 on the SRT. But they are different motors. Why is everyone implying that all engines are built to run at identical temperatures? That is logically incorrect. Maybe the SRT motor is happy as a flamingo in a trailer park at 237F. Bottom line it did not overheat. And to say it was close without actual knowledge of the operating parameters of ghe engine is incorrect is all I am saying. No warning lights were on and the Durango could have therefore done this all day in 120F weather for all anyone knows.

            1. 244* is more realistic of what the Durango hit before they lifted.

              Coolant had a little more margin to go, but oil was on the ragged edge, especially for a 50* day!!!

              If this test was run on even an 80* day they would have been pulling over! Neither the coolant nor oil could of managed.

            2. Another tell tell sign things we’re going bad is the separation of oil and water temps.

              The huge difference between coolant of 244* and oil 293* is big warning ⚠️ that things are going bad quickly!

              I’ll bet without a shadow of a doubt that this is the main reason Ram detunes the 6.4 Hemi in the trucks!

              As soon as oil temps hit a pre determined safety # they limit fueling to keep rpm’s below 4000 as we’ve all witnessed.

            3. Drifter, it is pure speculation to say a hotter day would have the Durango pulling over. You have no evidence to support your claim. If the Raptor was running below 225 and it is -25F does this mean the motor will freeze running up the gauntlet because it sounds like that is your logic here.

              To me logically the SRT was well within its operating range with 0 warning lights. Logic tells me to test the vehicle again on a hot day with the same load at the same speed to make an informed claim. How do you know the motor was not happy at those temperatures, it could be that it was where it wants to be under load and climbing a mountain and it will stay there indefinitely under all weather conditions. You have no proof, just speculation.

            4. Come on Rambro,

              On a 50* something day, and all fluids are pushing the limits getting super hot, what do yo REALLY think is going to happen if you double the outside air temperature???

              There’s no doubt the 6.4 Hemi is a well built motor. Internally I would venture to say it shares many parts form a Hellcat engine.

              However, science, logic and experience tells me everything overheats a lot easier when it’s 110* out rather than 50* something!

              I actually really like this Durango SRT and would love to have one as my SUV 🚙 but after seeing this I would never tow something this heavy on a hot day.

              Common sense has the best of me! I would back the weight way down to no more than 5k if it was hot.

            5. Like I said Drifter, the vehicle could sit at 240 temps in hot or cold weather and not budge because that’s where it wants to be based on its tuning and safety devices. We know there are multiple new safety devices built into the modern engine. There are sensors in their now that are harder to understand than a females brain.

              Again no warning lights came on, the gauge in the SRT goes to 260F so it was not maxed out for this motor or it would have said so and further to that the owners manual states it will run hot during trailering and mountain climbing and it was doing both so Dodge is telling you they are aware of it and nothing in the motor under warranty is telling you to pull over. Why do they tell you to only use synthetic? They know it gets hot so it is likely designed for it.

            6. If FCA thought it was too hot above 220 to 239 then a warning light would have come on to say it is getting warm before it got too hot. So read the owners manual so you are actually in the know rather than your opinion that you know something.

            7. @Drifter,
              “However, science, logic and experience tells me everything overheats a lot easier when it’s 110* out rather than 50* something!”

              “Common sense has the best of me! I would back the weight way down to no more than 5k if it was hot.”

              Look, where your common sense got you.

              “If sensors detect it’s getting too hot, fuel gets pulled back, boost get lowered, power goes down, and she cools off!”

              Completely opposite. More gasoline is sprayed inside the cylinders to cool them of.

              Look what Jimmy’s common sense did.

              ““Rambro, the temp of the oil is not necessarily the real scare, it is what the oil does at those high temps. As the oil heats up it will thin. That is why oil pressure drops hot. As it thins out, the oil film needs to remain intact under higher loads.”

              The motor oil works exactly opposite way as you described. It’s thinner (less viscous) when cold for easy start and get thicker (more viscous) when in working temperatures to protect the hard working engine.

              2018 Dodge Durango SRT has 7 qt. of 0W-40 Pennzoil Ultra synthetic motor oil.

              Your Common sense doesn’t work in this situation. Pure science and knowledge is required.

          1. Rambro, all engines are built to run at the same temperature range. It has been that way for a very long time. The 6.4L is no exception. When you start getting into high compression engines, cooling becomes even more critical. Especially with have port fuel injection. We are not talking about loose clearance air cooled engines here. We are talking about liquid cooled engines. Liquid cooled engines have much tighter tolerances for increased longevity, power, and economy. Each part in an engine is of different material and they expand at different rates. That is why a heat range is required. The 6.4L does not have anything special in it. It is a simple iron block aluminum head engine. Two metals with very different expansion rates separated by a MLS gasket and torque to yield bolts. If you want to get even deeper, ring clearance can become an issue when running hot. You don’t want rings with loose clearance cold and you don’t want them to expand when hot. When that happens and then 2 ring ends touch, that is it. End of the engine.

            1. jimmyjohns, not all engines run at the same operating levels, they all vary. I cannot get enough information from the SRT Durango owners manual other than that the SRT gauges specifically go up 260F for the coolant and 320F for the oil temperatures. Now why would they go that high. Warning lights are also said to come on with one beep for a yellow flag and 4 beeps with lights as a red flag to pull over. We did not even see the yellow warning lights come on so there was no condition for concern as we seen no warning lights.

              What I get from Dodge forums is that these motors do run hot typically at 217 to 223F under normal driving. The owners manual further states that under trailer pulling and mountain climbing that the SRT will run hotter coolant temperatures during this time. So if it was above 223F at 239F it was well within its proper operating range given the conditions it was under. If your oil overheats than your cooling system has failed so the oil temperature was not a concern since the coolant was well below 293F. When coolant reaches 260 and maxes out the SRT gauge then warning lights will likely come on, but the vehicle was not at that point. 237F up a mountain with a trailer when standard operating is at 223F is reasonable in my opinion, so I still disagree with your opinion that all engines run at the same temperature due to different metals. Sounds ridiculous what you are saying, get some real facts instead of opinion or old man traditional faux paw.

            2. Rambro, if you are fine running your vehicle on the ragged edge that is fine with me. Some people feel there is no problem until a warning light turns on. I prefer to be proactive in monitoring if a problem starts to show up.

            3. jimmyjohns, being proactive means you do proper research like contact Dodge to see if the SRT motor is in danger. Fact is it is under warranty and if Dodge thought the temperature was a concern they would yellow light your panel at 240F but they did not. What you are being is belligerent towards a Ram product in hopes to continue on with the Zviera bash parade so you have no common ground or fair regard on the topic, just speculation, old man faux paw, and hopes others will believe your opinion without facts. I am trying to stay neutral, I dug for information and admit I cannot confirm what normal is for the SRT. My limited knowledge is this for a fact

              1) No warning lights came on
              2) SRT gauges go to 260F and oil goes to 320F
              3) Fact, not all residential engines run at the same operating temperatures.
              4) Dodge forums state their SRT do run hot around 217 to 223 under normal driving from actual owners who all state the same thing.
              5) The owners manual states it is normal for the SRT to get hotter than normal climbing mountains or pulling a trailer.
              6) Engine temperatures based on outside temperatures is not linear, otherwise our engines would freeze and we would have multiple overheated vehicles in California and Arizona to an epidemic degree.
              7) It is possible that the SRT was at an operating temperature, that it wanted to be at in any weather condition. Maybe it had just started to cool down with a safety device that kicked in at 240F because I seen it go from 239 to 237 so it was cooling itself down, that is on video evidence.

              Everything I stated is well within logical reason, your posts are meant to belittle Zviera and it hurts the facts or lack of the facts to scream opinions without a real basis. I tried to fact check your claim that different metals in a motor cannot exceed 230F and I come up with a big zippo, I keep getting explanations that not all motors are equal so there is no gold standard other than to check with your manufacturer.

            4. Rambro. If you would pay more attention to what I am saying you would understand where you are going wrong. The temps you mentioned about running up to 220 is normal for every modern engine that uses electric cooling fans. When in traffic and city driving the engine continues to build heat in the cooling system because of lack of air flow. The threshold is 220F. The low speed fan kicks in to cool it back down. Remember what I said about the T star range? Fully opened at 220F? There is no mystery is engine temps. We are all still governed by the coolant max temp rating under pressure. When that engine is over 220F, the cooling system is at max cooling. For every. Degree over a fully opened T stat is 1 degree the system cannot expel. So when the coolant temp is 20F over, that system is not able to cool when the vehicle is moving and outside air is coming in. In this case, 50F air at the rate of 60 mph. The heat cannot be transferred fast enough as the engine generates the heat. I fully understand you don’t understand engines and I have no issue with that. And I’m sure you are great at whatever you do. But this has been my world for a long time and engines just don’t change in basic form and function. You even know that based on your constant rant about manufacturers not changing.

            5. jimmyjohns, I completely understand you have your opinion. But you indulge the numbers which is a red flag that you bend the facts to your opinion, constantly making things favor your opinion, like 300 vs 293 for oil temps should be 290 if you want to round numbers. You do not know that the engine does not have more cooling tricks up its sleeve at 240F. Maybe the motor wanted to be there. And you raise another red flag to say all engines are the same which is factually false, my article even states that there is a range for the standard engine. You say the Gold standard is 220F when SRT owners claim 223F, another red flag push on your part to bend your audience. Bottom line is you continue on your current faux paw jimmyjohns and your opinion that all engines are overheating because they cant get back to 220F is ridiculous. Owners state the SRT runs at 223F normally and the manual states it WILL run hotter pulling a load and in mountainous terrain. So if the SRT is normally at 217 to 223 what should it be at climbing a mountain with a load when it is fact that the owners manual states it will run hotter, so Dodge knows and understands this. So what should the above normal be if your propaganda is at 220F and the SRT is normally at 217 to 223 and Dodge states it will get higher and we are telling you it will but if it gets too hot we warn you but that never happened, so would it rise to 224 on the toughest towing test and then be considered too hot because you said so and if it cant get back to 220 it is failing? You sound very one sided, red flags are going up for me in every single comment you make on this.

            6. As long as your fine with an engine running 20F hotter than what others are reporting that is fine with me and I will leave it at that.

            7. jimmyjohns, I am fine with it as long as my warning lights don’t come on under full warranty, then I know I am more than likely safe. As for any true evidence that it will or was overheating is not known and cannot be summarized to traditional faux paw based on a 90’s engine vs a modern engines with more built in safety features than politician.

            8. Remember that warning lights is the manufacturer threshold for complete failure. I along with many others that are better educated know to look for signs of a problem. FCA even knownat 220F that they need the full capacity of the cooling system to keep temps under control. But I guess that is the difference between people in the know and those that don’t.

            9. jimmyjohns, the Durango SRT owners manual states that it will warn you with 1 beep and a light when the vehicle is getting warm. When it gets hot and considered overheating you will hear 4 beeps and a blinking red light which means to pull over, put it in neutral and let it cool off. So there is a warning from FCA before the vehicle gets too hot that allows you to continue on course until the 4 beeps are heard as per the SRT manual for the 2018 Durango

            10. jimmyjohns, If FCA thought it was too hot above 220 to 239 then a warning light would have come on to say it is getting warm before it got too hot. So read the owners manual so you are actually in the know rather than your opinion that you know something.

            11. That’s fine bro. Run it up to the beeps. Don’t bother me one bit. I tend to take better care of my stuff but whatever makes you happy that is fine with me.

            12. jimmyjohns you need to work on your internet search engine. This is likely the group in charge of boosting a 6 cylinder in a truck instead of a V8

            13. Why would I run it to the beeps jimmyjohns, that’s not what I said. I said the Durango will warn you if it gets warm with a single beep but there was no warning so it may not be possible to overheat this Durango and I would bet it is impossible under any weather conditions under its rated load to overheat it and I would bet on it if we could set it up. You have your opinion and the engineers who built this motor already put their money where their mouth is by giving the vehicle a 5 year warranty, extendable if you want. But your opinion with no money on the table is suppose to trump the engineering based on what? Everything you raised was bent truths and faux paws. According to Dodge the motor was not even warm enough to sound the first warning yet alone tell the user it was overheating.

            14. It was not bent truth but even bent truth is truth. Your words so I am glad you are coming around. I encourage you to learn more about gasoline engines. You yourself said you don’t know anything about them. Maybe it is time to learn.

            15. In ordee to learn jimmyjohns one needs information based on non-bias information and proper test data. Both of which we do not have. What makes it worse is when persons such as yourself add noise to relevant data and impose their bias belief system into the limited data. Then you end up with this, a thread full of shit so deep you could swim in it for years and never find a way out.

            16. The difference is that I have been in this industry for quite awhile. So I am more of an authority than you are on this. The problem is that you don’t like what you are reading. Answer this one question. If the engine has a thermostat that starts to open at 200F and is fully open at 217F, why would they want their engine to run at 240F? Why not regulate it from 230F-240F? Why keep it that much lower?

              Also since you looked at some forums, did you notice how many people are putting 180F and 190F T stats in their 6.4L’s.

            17. Who said I dont? You don’t have to like them to get a paycheck from them………think about that.

            18. Jimmyjohns I will answer your question with limited knowlege but my answer is just speculation as is your thought process because your faux paw is challenging FCA engineers who back their product with a warranty. No I do not like your answers, or what I am hearing from you because its polluting facts with opinions that you state are gospel

              To answer your question as to why FCA wants the coolant hot MIGHT be because they want the oil hot. Remember my article above on the benefits of hot oil. Drifter64 eluded to this before that it might not be good to have coolant much colder than your engine oil. Maybe FCA found a way to keep hot oil for its advantages and need the coolant hot in order to be closer to the oil temperature when under heavy load. The owners manual even tells the owner to expect higher coolant temperatures under load and trailering, so as already stated FCA knows it will run hot. Now again I am not an expert but my answer could be correct because it makes logical sense based on the limited facts. And I am careful not to call it gospel and bring you as a follower into my belief system.

            19. Rambro, if they wanted to keep the oil hot, that is a very simple solution to that vs getting the coolant hot. CCV. Coolant Control Valve. They have been used for decades to control the amount of coolant to a specific location. If you wanted the oil hot you don’t have to run your engine hot to do it.

              FYI I believe the word your looking for is faux pas. Not faux paw.

            20. jimmyjohns, thanks for the spelling class, at least I learned something from you that had merit. As far as the CCV valve, you just admitted that the coolant can be controlled. Why would you want extreme differences in oil temp vs coolant temps. Maybe 239 vs 293 is exactly where the SRT is suppose to be under load, maybe their engine can handle the heat and that is why it comes with a 5 year warranty on the powertrain. If you could kill it, they would have to fix it. Most manufacturers test their engines well beyond what the gauntlet can do to them to assure they don’t have to cover a warranty claim. Go look up manufacturing torcher testing. You think this test was hard on the motor? Likely a vacation for this motor compared to what the engineers actually torture test it to in order to avoid billion dollar warranty claims.

            21. You are stuck in the engine. The engine was able to handle this load ok however the limits appear to be the cooling system. Just like trying to tow 7,000lbs with a mustang. Sure the 5.0L is fine doing it but the cooling system is not setup for it. Then it is possible the engine is limited because w all know FCA detunes the 2500 to 1st gear and 4,000 rpm Towing up hill. And this has been tested for several years now on TFL.

            22. jimmyjohns, I am not stuck on the engine. The Durango was torcher tested to give a 5 year powertrain warranty to pull 8700Lbs considering all aspects of the vehicle from the suspension to motor to handling, to axles, transmissions and every nut and bolt. The Mustang was tested to 1000Lbs of towing capacity so by the time Nathan and Andre sit in it the payload capacity might shrink that even more so I am sure the cooling system in the Mustang is more than efficient to pull its rated load. The 2500 is rated to pull 18,000Lbs I believe, so if the engine is the weak point under torcher testing than yes they will de-rate the motor. This is what I mean by a thread turning to sht you cant find your way out of. You keep swimming in diahrea and there is no exit.

              Stick to the facts, the Durango is under warranty for 5 years on its powertrain, more if you want and torcher tested to pull 8700Lbs well beyond what the gauntlet could do to it otherwise the vehicle will cost FCA a lot of money on re-calls and repairs. What do you think customers would say if FCA had to de-rate the towing because it overheats on a US highway in the summer. Not likely going to happen, FCA has already torcher tested it beyond anything the gauntlet can throw at it in my opinion.

    18. I agree with you Jimmy. “It’s even more expensive to meld down and engine”, what ever that means, that’s why Ford cools it with gasoline.

      1. Melt down. But if you want to start that game I can have a field day with your post. Full of errors. But you need to focus more on why the Raptor stayed cooler than “hemi” and had better down hill control.

        1. What game. I said I agree with you.
          I wouldn’t use gasoline for cooling, but Ford customers pay for that, so it’s well deserved.

    19. @Jimmy Johns
      November 7, 2017 at 3:37 pm
      “Rambro, the temp of the oil is not necessarily the real scare, it is what the oil does at those high temps. As the oil heats up it will thin. That is why oil pressure drops hot. As it thins out, the oil film needs to remain intact under higher loads.”

      You have no idea Jimmy.

      Generally, as the temperature of a liquid increases, there is a decrease in viscosity and the liquid becomes more easy to pour. This is true of most liquids but how does this relationship stand with respect to the Viscosity of Motor Oil?

      Viscosity of Motor Oil
      Certain kinds of motor oils behave differently. Ideally, an engineer would prefer the oil viscosity to remain the same when the engine is hot as when it is cold. Motor oil includes additives developed to reduce changes in viscosity because of temperature.

      Certain motor oils are designed to be thinner (less viscous) when cold and more viscous (thicker) when hot. For instance, multi-grade or multi-viscosity motor oils show a low viscosity at low temperatures and high viscosity at high temperatures.

      The idea is to provide thin oil when the motor is started and to provide an oil of the right thickness at the operating temperature.

      These multi-grade or multi-viscosity oils can be identified by designations such as 10-30W.

      The “10W” in this example corresponds to the lower oil viscosity when the engine is cold and not running. The “30” refers to the higher oil viscosity when the engine is hot and running normally.

      2018 Dodge Durango SRT has 7 qt. of 0W-40 Pennzoil Ultra synthetic motor oil.

        1. The motor oil works exactly opposite way as you described. It’s thinner (less viscous) when cold for easy start and get thicker (more viscous) when in working temperatures to protect the hard working engine.

          2018 Dodge Durango SRT has 7 qt. of 0W-40 Pennzoil Ultra synthetic motor oil.

          You don’t know even basics , flooding forums with bs and ford ecoboost propaganda.

          1. Your wrong. Hot oil is very thin compared to cold oil. Just look at a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the same engine when it is hot via cold. You again prove you haven’t a single clue about engines and now oil.

            1. Please, I don’t mind you to post your bs, I use to that , but who ever new reads this comment section, please google everything to get right answer, how turbogasoline engine needs to use extra gasoline to cool down overheated engine under heavy load and prevent knocking and also how motor oil viscosity works and what those numbers means, because Jimmy is in his limbo again and going to repeat his trauma over and over again. He needs to have a last words however stupid they are.

            2. Zombiera, that is the most incoherent comment you said. The only good part of that complete nightmare of rambled words is who knows what your saying. But the good news is that the whole world can see “hemi” overheating while the engine oil is cooking tater tots. 😂😂😂😂😂

    20. Lot comments about the Durango and it’s heat issue. I’m bit surprised that tfl hasn’t ask Dodge some clarification on it. This also not what Dodge to see.

      1. Yes, TFL could ask, but why, if red light didn’t go on ? They don’t have to ask why ecoboost had 24% worse mileage under heavy load and up hill. They come to the comclusion right on the beginning of this forum section. It’s a gasoline turbo and needs more gasoline for cooling engine down under this conditions.

        1. Zviera look what happens to the Colorado’s fuel mileage when it goes into a ZR2 trim. You lose 16% due to weight, aerodynamics and tires and potentially a tranny tune. The Raptor has poor aero, tires that are softer and off road and much larger to boot and it is not set to pull. Your claim that the motor is better than a boosted motor is ridiculous. This SRT also comes in boosted form via a supercharger, FROM DODGE.

          1. Look it’s clear for Ferrari engineers, that turbogasoline engine needs extra fuel under heavy load conditions to cool down the engine and wast it down the pipe. Aero makes difference, but not , when running at 60Mph and not 24% . That would be dream for designer. You forgot, that Durango was pulling a brick trailer. Big tires makes difference when accelerating. Semitrucks has even bigger tires, and no one complains, because once it’s rolling, it doesn’t matter. Actually, it’s better,when bigger.

            1. Zviera you are confusing objects in motion stay in motion unless something is counteracting those forces. Now you are playing in my world. Yes technically you are right but larger tires take more energy to turn over under acceleration by your own admittance so every time an opposite force fights your momentum the engine is and has to be under acceleration in order to maintain speed or it would come to a stop. Larger tires create more work for the motor to overcome wind resistance and every single slight incline. There is also added drag coefficients for an off road tire vs the SRT tires and the Raptor is wider so more wind resistance. Ferrari motors are a lot different than the Ford motor; I am thinking here. Maybe quote a Ford article instead so we understand how much gas it takes to cool a motor down, not that I care because I prefer the low end torque the turbo can give me when set up properly in a work truck, this a far more important than saving a tablespoon of gas.

            2. That’s what I said . Tires makes difference when accelerating. It was done in few seconds. Once it’s running, it doesn’t matter. Rolling resistance has many variables, Raptors tires are stiffer, more plies…We don’t know numbers for rolling resistance, so I am not going to discuss this. There are much bigger tires than Durango’s, with less rolling resistance, I guarantee you that.
              24% is not a table spoon, but maybe for you is, which I am ok with.
              It’s common knowledge, that turbogasoline engine needs more gasoline to cool engine down under heavy load. You wanted to buy an battery car to get rid of gasoline, now you saying, it doesn’t matter, when it takes 24% more ?
              This test gets me info I needed. Why would I deal with 2 turbos, when I can get better mileage , nicer sound, longevity of V8 with more power. I want this engine in TRX and won’t settle for less.

            3. Zviera what happens to the motor when the vehicle is accelerating that makes it burn more fuel due to the larger tire size on the Raptor? It performs extra work right because the larger tires rob power that could get to the ground otherwise. Same thing happens when the motor has to overcome wind resistance at speed, it has to work harder because the larger tires still rob the engine of power at speed because it has to push through the wind and it also has a harder time to maintain speed up a hill.

              Also the off road tires on the Raptor have more rolling resistance and the Raptor itself will have a higher drag coefficient because it is a larger vehicle. So if your SRT motor was in the Raptor your 24% might turn into a negative as we have seen with other tests with standard F150’s, especially the 2.7EB which would still cake walk this load up the hill.

              Motors are better suited to run at pressures you tell them to run at. Relying on mother nature to determine your optimal engine feed based on differences in atmosphere is ridiculous. Boosted power gives engineers to tune a motor to optimum levels to where they want there boost, not based on natures variable boost pressures. If diesels did that they wouldn’t exist.

            4. Let’s wait for 2018 Navigator 4WD with 7000 lb. trailer weight.
              We will get the answers soon.
              I have to go to, make some money for my TRX with Hellcat.

    21. What FCA needs to do is boost a V8 in a TRX Pick Up Truck. Then this V6 Ford sht you hate so much Zviera will be history and we can get back to tradition and put V6 motors back where they belong. And yes I am onboarding with electric, I like that as well but boosted motors are the future, its why diesels exist and are still not extinct, but soon will be.

      1. well electric is the future but boosted motors if it were not for electric are king, they have massive advantages in their torque and HP curves over a motor running on mother nature.

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