• 2018 Ford Raptor Changes: New Colors, New Tailgate, and Price Increases (Report)

    2018 ford raptor changes colors price
    2018 Ford Raptor

    The latest report suggests that the 2018 Ford Raptor will get a new tailgate design with the stamped “F-150”. This tailgate design also appears on the entire 2018 F-150 lineup later this calendar year.

    2018 ford f150 tailgate stamp
    2018 Ford F-150 tailgate

    The Raptor will continue with the same front-end design as the 2017 model. The Raptor will not get the updated grille and headlights that will be used across the rest of the 2018 Ford F-150 lineup. Also, the high output 3.5L EcoBoost V6 is still the only engine option, and the power rating is still 450 hp and 510 lb-ft of torque.

    2018 Ford Raptor Changes

    Are there any other changes for the 2018 model year Raptor? Yes. The next year brings some additional color options and slightly increased prices. The screenshots you see below were published on Town & Country TV channel.

    (All 2018 model year information comes from the guide published by Town & Country TV.)

    2017 Ford Raptor Super Crew starts at $52,250. The 2018 Raptor crew is listed at $52,770, which represents a $520 base price increase. The luxurious Raptor 802A package is listed at $9,345 for 2017. The 802A price for 2018 is $9,770, which is a $425 increase. The final MSRP for a fully optioned 2018 Ford Raptor crew will reach $72,855.

    Another totable change is that the B&O Premium Audio system replaces the Sony Audio System for 2018.

    The new F-150 color options are listed as: Guard, Magma Red, Stone Grey, and Lead Foot. The F-150 colors that are being deleted are: Avalanche, Bronze Fire, Caribou, and Lithium Grey.

    How efficient is the new Ford Raptor when towing? Check out our 100-mile towing MPG loop.

    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    139 thoughts on “2018 Ford Raptor Changes: New Colors, New Tailgate, and Price Increases (Report)

    1. Ah, we will have new colors scraped off onto the rocks and trees of roads too narrow for these things.

    2. did U notice on youtube the new raptor tfl tested was sent to them by ford as the short cab configuration? ford knew tfl was going to use it for an off-road test, and they didn’t want the raptor to reveal its saggy bottom of its most popular configuration of raptor. and tfl still only dared load it with a driver only.

      1. Not sure where this is coming from? My crew cab raptor had way less sag then my 2004 f150 it replaced so you have no clue what your talking about. Plus a raptor is not built to hold 2k pounds in the bed, which mine has gotten close to and the truck sat level. Hardly what I would call saggy.
        Off roaded my truck plenty of times and it never broke a sweat or had me worried of getting stuck.
        Also ford knows Tfl is going to off road the truck so why wouldn’t they send there most capable (scab version) truck?

        1. Raptors are well know to hae a very long wheelbase and a very soft suspension, so they drag their belly quite a bit off-road. Just not meant for serious trucking.

    3. Oh, great. New sound system for the augmented fake engine note to sooth its owners’ inner child.

      1. I think some guys just listen to the turbo howls and whistles while they’re pulling away. The power is intoxicating.

    4. Jealously is running well with the intial comments…painted with a vibrant shade of green.

      1. Not much to be jealous of when you have a saggy bottom and are obese. Ford’s own one ton work truck out runs this fat truck. Its not even a truck, you can’t haul anything in it.

        1. Are you blind and completely misinformed Glen?

          That was an older 2014 Raptor with a 6.2v8. The new Raptor is a 3.5 Ecoboost and destroyed the ild v8 Raptor. It also destroys everything else V8 powered, in the current pickup truck world – pulling 35″ tires and real off-road suspension and skid plates!

          6.2F250 is impressive I must admit, but uts the lightest configuration your likely to find only being reg cab, 2wd.

            1. Don’t get why Chevy lovers get on ford websites.You have lost your mind if you think raptors can’t handle the wait.I pull my 3,800 lb Searay and it does just fine.Please no bailout chevy haters on this site.

      2. I hope you we not referring to my comment. I was just stating that there is some good choices of pickups at that or below that price range. Plus if the markup rumors by dealers are true you could buy a house for that.

        1. Not at you as our comments were posted very close to each other.

          You definitely right about truck prices. As a matter of fact I recently read an article how their increase in price is out pacing other vehicle classes.

        2. WTF! A Raptor hauls 1000lbs no problem. Pulls a 7,000lb camper w ease. If you need to pull more or haul more buy a 3/4ton or one ton diesel. As for price, see how much a loaded diesel costs w the same options as a Raptor. BOOM (mic drop)

          1. Just Chevy lovers on ford site,I feel sorry for them.They have to drive a box every day.

        1. Glen.. not factual! Don’t state something you nothing about or no evidence to compare to..
          You sound like the liberal media..

      1. Obviously you didn’t watch the video here on tfl from a few days ago. And you can even configure even faster 3/4 ton and one ton trucks that that one on the video.

            1. And their are faster hd’s than the one in the video too, with a lot more power than the new Raptor, and a lot more capability too.

            2. Prolly not as fast as a raptor…. in fact all the trucks that tfl has tested over the years the raptor with the ecoboost is the fastest of all pickups they have tested. It’s in the archives on the website. Maybe the tfl staff will come in and state that fact. 450 hp and a stump pulling 510 ft lbs is impressive for a 1/2 ton. No 3/4 or 1 ton will run with an ecoboost raptor if you want to race stock trucks…. no 1/2 ton including a raptor will haul or pull like a 3/4 ton or 1 ton. Completely different creatures.

            3. Are you reading what you are writing? You can buy a 3/4 ton with 445 hp and 910 lb of torque . When TFL tested the Raptor’s acceleration, they made a point of saying it was the fastest “they have tested”.
              Obviously, they have not tested all the configurations. They are the first to admit, that they usually just get the trucks that are sent them.
              The Raptor is a PIG, and you put more than a driver in it and it is SSSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW as a turtle. And thirsty as a horse. If you are gong to just drive a vehicle by yourself, you might as well buy a dirtbike or a Miata By the way, a dirtbike blows the doors off the Raptor, and a Miata shames the Raptor on the road course.

            4. Are you trying to say a diesel with 445 hp and 900+ are going to be faster then an ecoboost raptor????? Lol. Diesels are slow son. A 6.2 gm 1500 can’t keep up with an ecoboost raptor and there isnt a single stock hd pickup that can keep up with a 6.2 gm if you are racing, never mind trying to keep up with an ecoboost raptor.

            5. The fastest true 4 door 4×4 ever tested by TFL from what I remember is the 2017 3.5EB F150 and it was a higher trim with added weight and it did 0-60 in 6.27s. The Raptors fastest time on TFL was 6.17 but it was a clam door Raptor and not the heavier 4 door Raptor. A lighter weight F150 would surely better the 6.23s and likely beat the Raptor. The other kicker here is that that F150 that got 6.23s had the 3:55 gears. The F150 also comes with a 3:73 gear set and son, we all know what larger diffs do to your 0-60 times. In my opinion the fastest true 4 door 4×4 ever tested on TFL is the F150, not the Raptor. Now the F150 Platinum is being boosted to 400HP so with the 3:73 it will surely beat the 2018 Raptor.

    5. There are report/rumours of a Ranger Raptor. This thing is just too big with a small payload and seriously underpowered for the price and power to weight ratio. The only thing good about the Raptors size is box space and family comfort on trips but even then you are pushing capacity, especially if you need to haul and tow a camper. It would be nice if they just added the front bumper design of the Raptor to the FX4 platinum to give it the needed body clearance with an awsome payload with off road chops and add the 4 wheel steering for maneuverability. Adding a dual rate suspension and or airbag suspension to the existing set up on the Raptor and a V8 turbo is needed in the eyes of many consumers.

    6. Yes, a ranger raptor that is smaller, lighter and has more capacity. Kind of like a ZR2. But the quality of a Toyota. You just can’t get what you want. We have to choose our poison.
      The ZR2 is probably the best choice with the diesel.
      I just wish it were built more like a Toyota with a better passenger compartment.

      1. Which Toyota do you mean? The orders ones 90’s and earlier? Or the newer that have frames protected by the multi-billion dollar frame settlement?

        1. I think he is referring to the Toyotas whose engines actually start up in the morning after 350,00 miles.

          1. There are many non Toyota vehicles that do the same. GM, Ford, Mercs, Volvos, VWs , Honda, etc..

            1. If U R asserting that Toyota is not generally a higher quality made product, you have lost all credibility to your name on this site. Because all evidence over many decades by many independent testers that are well documented and well known by anyone who is not getting paid in some way by a competitor knows. I am a completely independent consumer, and just want a quality product. And want the others to clean up their act.

      2. Just wait for the Ranger. It leaves the Toyotas and Colorado’s for dead in every department and has held the mantle of the best pickup 4×4 around the world for the past 5 years.

    7. Just don’t brush the body up against any tree limbs or your will rip it open like a pop can.

          1. Exactly. It’s no secret I have beef with Toyota. At least when I go negative on them I back it up–cuz I have material to work with 😊

            1. NoQDR, with what you experienced I can understand how you feel about Toyota. I also know that you know that any manufacturer can and will make a bad product. I think that Toyota could and should be better at admitting when they are wrong and then making it right. It seems that corporate is still thinking in terms of all those great Toyota’s they made that lasted almost forever and they are blind to the fact that they simply are not what they used to be. The Japanese built Toyotas such as the 4Runner are still incredible vehicles. I am shocked at the unnecessary initial quality issues of the third gen Tacomas. Mine has been great except for one very major flaw – howling rear differential. I’m waiting for Toyota to get a fix but there is no way they should have let this occur on such a popular vehicle.

              There is no doubt I have had my issues with GM and won’t rehash them here today. As for the Raptor, anyone that wheels knows that you cannot have everything on a factory truck. You cannot have a high speed desert/Baja racer that will have the payload of an HD truck or one that is equipped with a diesel motor with 900 ft lbs of torque and not lose something along the way. For a factory Baja truck the Raptor has yet to be matched. I would hate to see someone buy that truck because they want to use it for giant payload purposes. My Off-Road Tacoma has a noticeably softer suspension than my Sport Tacoma did. You don’t want to be beat to death off roading.

              As for some of these other comments on here, it is sad to see all the negative comments on this website with very little to back it up because it is starting to remind me of another website we all do not think much of. TFL does a great job and while honest and truthful debate is always welcome, some of this stuff is just pure vitriol.

          2. L.O.L., and apparently you don’t either, because you didn’t link anything as well. Ha! People are so dumb.

            1. What is there for me to link? I stated an opinion that is all my own. I’m a Toyota truck guy and own a 3rd gen presently. Go to Tacomaworld and read until your heart is content for what I stated. My GM issues are well documented here and back up but I do not feel the need to post a link every time I mention them in passing. There are some dumb people on here occasionally but I am not one of them. Peace.

      1. I think stamping tailgates is the new C shaped taillights. It’s in now I guess. Most of us on Tacomaworld are filling them in with tailgate letters.

    8. I like the first gen better, the styling and 6.2 iron. Maybe my preference would change if I had a chance to drive them side-by-side.

    9. Andre must the hardest working, most productive at TFLtruck in reviews, research and production results. The hits just keep coming none stop 7/24/365.

    10. @pete:
      Toyota’s past gen and two light US trucks (Tacoma and Tundra) do not live up to Toyota’s reputation. Toyota’s cars, Highlander and RAV 4 are of higher quality.

      I traded my ’11 Tundra for a ’12 Highlander. Both have a new MSRP of $37k. The HL crushes my former Tundra in terms of QDR. The interior quality, fit, finish, even the weather striping is superior. Along with the paint; it’s well known the Tundra’s paint is less than stellar.

      So yes Toyota does on my make superior vehicles, but trucks no, cars, crossovers yes.

    11. Moondogs comment is right on the mark. You cannot have off road / high speed / excellent handling / heavy payload capacity / luxury / roominess all in one package without trade offs. The Raptor has the most potent EcoBoost aside from the Ford GT. It’s outright speed is slower a bit because it has the largest tires fitted to any factory built vehicle right now. It also has a heavier frame than a standard half ton pickup, and even a “base” Raptor is loaded with heavy luxury equipment. The Raptor is a very good compromise rig overall. I wish it had a bit more payload, but no other vehicle gives you the combination the Raptor current offers.

        1. Keifo is Right about Troverman being right! Moondogs comment is right on the Mark!

      1. Of course you can. With Air ride. Second generation RAM air ride in TRX will address that.
        Coming soon.

        1. I agree with Zviera on this one. I believe you can have a good payload and a good off road suspension. There are three item. Electronic ride control shocks. Progressive springs with dual or triple zones and airbags. Use any two of these or all three, mix it together and engineer it right and you will have an off road suspension capable of hauling big payloads. Air ride alone may be able to solve if its adjustable but mixing that with electronic adjustable shocks would be the show stopper.

          1. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You can but you can’t – not within reason. Have you ever seriously wheeled with someone with an air suspension? I have. Generally someone in a Jeep or Toyota gets to pull them out when the air ride FAILS when seriously wheeeling. I always loved seeing those guys in their Land Rovers blowing up their trucks to get extra ground clearance (it does look cool initially) only to fail when the going gets tough. And thy fail often. Some folks on here are showing how little they have actually engaged in serious off roading. Now, if you spend enough you can increase payload for sure but at what price overall? We are already complaining about what these trucks cost. We can technically make everything better than factory. That is why we have aftermarket, right? I can tune my VW GTI to outrun a Ferrari but it doesn’t make it better. I’d really rather have the Ferrari, BTW.

          2. Rambro, once again Moondog is correct. I wheeled Land Rovers for many years quite seriously. Mud, rocks, ledge, sand, and more rocks. I wheeled two different Rovers with air suspension: a 1997 Range Rover 4.0SE, and a 2005 LR3 V8 SE. In “normal” mode the air suspension was pretty compliant…nice ride quality. But in “off road” mode, which gave you the extra two or three inches of ground clearance, the ride quality became almost unbearable. It was incredibly stiff because the air springs were filled to high pressure and had almost no give. Air springs also limit suspension travel…because the air spring only moves so much. A coil or leaf suspension has more travel. So off road, you really want a soft suspension…best ride quality over rough terrain, and longest suspension travel over obstacles. Air springs are not the answer…way too harsh a ride quality. For the purposes of payload leveling, they work fine. But I can also tell you they add complexity and unreliability and expense. Over time, the air springs fail, the height sensors fail, the compressors fail, the driers fail, the solenoid valve blocks fail, and the air lines themselves can fail. Ask me about the thousands spent on keeping the Range Rover air suspension system functioning.

        2. Zviera, goog luck trying to show old dogs new tricks. They live in an old world with old sets of rules. Actually, even the old world has trucks that have high payload and compliant suspension, but these guys are so narrow-minded, they aren’t aware of them. So if they don’t even know the present and past, how can we expect them to know the near future?

      2. Thanks, Troverman. It seems more clear each day that we have people on here (not you but you clearly see who they are) that do not know or understand trucks, but especially off road trucks. You cannot have it all. There are always trade offs. And, to get a lot more payload, which is technically possible, you would have a trade off somewhere else. If they were to build a truck with no trade offs that they could offer a factory warranty on the price would be untouchable. I wheel my trucks and have for years. I understand it. I also know that if your off roader is stiff then you are going to get beat to pieces when you actually take it off road.

        1. Moondog, I think it comes down to experience. There are a lot of opinionated folks on here that “think” they know a lot, but haven’t actually experienced certain setups on a truck. Combine that opinion with brand loyalty…and you get a lot of silly comments. You and I have experienced air suspension off road. The result is a harsh ride and unreliability. But a lot of folks here just read the marketing pieces or read about the concept, and in their heads it makes sense and seems like leaps and bounds ahead. But in real life, it just isn’t.

          1. Agreed Troverman! For better or worse I have been there done that with these trucks and if I recall correctly, I think even TFL has talked about the unreliability of air suspensions off road. Experience is an excellent teacher! Maybe they will improve this technology in the future but everything comes at a price. We are already complaining about costs as it is and if we had everything we wanted I’m not sure we could afford it! 🙂

            1. Agreed with both of you guys, Troverman and Moondog.

              Thx for helping to keeps some of the goofballs on here straightened out!

              I’ve always said: “You can fool the Fans, but not the Players”

            2. Drifter, Moondog and Troverman….this is good and funny because when they do solve the issue with off road suspension vs payload, you guys will look like the cave men when the wheel was invented and the DODO bird when the Wright brothers took flight. And Troverman, what if we do not use the airbags for off roading, why not do as Mr Truck does and add airbags for payload instead so they are only used to increase payload. Say you have the Raptors unmatched suspension and only inflate it when you need to add more than 1200Lbs. How is it that, that won’t work. Sure it adds complexity but that is what they said about EBoosting, whatever breaks you replace it with a part that does not break anymore. Up to 2013, that is what the Ford EB motors went through. They were terrible up to 2013 and then they became reliable.

            3. The problem Drifter is that there are more and more of those goof balls on here daily! You can always tell who the arm chair off-roaders are! Maybe the TFL core members can keep em straight or run em back to PUTC…;).

            4. Rambro, none of us are saying that Airbags will never work, we are saying they don’t work consistently now and over the years they have been terribly unreliable. I have seen it countless times over the years. If they come out with a better tech that is also more affordable (and reliable) then I’m sure we would consider it. Air suspensions are just not there technically speaking at this time – at least not for the masses and in terms of affordability. Is it coming? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. However, I need to see that it works, is affordable, and holds up first and then, and only then, will I come out of my cave and use it.

            5. Wow. You are all funny and ignorant, because your brand uses silly leafs.
              Just because you don’t know better, it doesn’t mean ,that it doesn’t exist or works. Did you ever hear about Hydropneumatic suspension Citroën, Rolls-Royce, Mercedes, Maserati… uses since 1954 ?
              I was driving Citroën with this suspension and there is nothing you could feel going over 5″ deep potholes 100 of them in the row .
              Nothing. The car body didn’t move a hair any direction.
              Enjoy your massage chair and 100 cameras , but that’s not what I am looking for.

            6. Moondog when you get out of that cave maybe you will have enough hair to trade for feathers 😆🤔

            7. Good post Zviera and I researched this. I think these guys got their feathers ruffled and stuck in their mouth instead. I am humble enough to say I learn new things on here all the time. Even military tanks are using this suspension and its available in 2017 on the cheapest model cars for Peugeot. Load levelling for more ground clearance and a softer ride than the Raptor and available on cars 1/4 the price of a Raptor and used on military tanks. What do you boys have to say for yourselves now. Sounds like off road chops, load levelling and payload capacity all wrapped into one. Available on Citroen cargo Vans as well.

            8. Yes Rambro , this suspension will address all of it ,and it would address also safety most. The truck would be more comfortable than limousine, had more payload than Raptor and will stick on the road as a sports car. Citroën is using hydropneumatic suspension for centuries.
              RAM is at least trying to do something about it with multilink suspension . Other guys just cash in at 2000 years old leafs and call it a progress. People are blinded with cameras and massage chair.

            9. Yes, Zman and Rambro, I’m familiar with more cars and trucks than you think. I’ve owned my share as well – over 30 new ones (not counting play vehicles) and I stopped counting used ones years ago. I have also wheeled with those G-Wagons that the Germans are so proud of only to see those air suspensions pop like balloons at a birthday party. So, if it is so great, where is this tech on a capable, reliable, and affordable US truck? It’s not here. You know it and we know it. Zman you are quick to call people stupid. That is something that stupid people do. Think about that for a minute if you are capable.

            10. Agreed we are buying crap and some believe nothing better is available and here it is on Pegeot city cars that you can buy with a nickel in your pocket all the way to Royles Royce and military tanks and used on Rally cars. The more I research this suspension the better it gets and yet they dont offer it on a Raptor. And its only 100 years old. Maybe Ford is like the rest of us who never heard of it before. 🤣

            11. I didn’t call anyone stupid. Just unaware, or uninformed about this technology.
              Hydropneumatic suspension is not the same as airbags. Not even close.
              You didn’t drive a car like this , so you can’t tell the difference.

            12. Moondog it is not on a US truck because these manufacturers continue to sell junk at a premium. Bollinger is dedicated to making an off road work truck for work or play because they are so fed up with the garbage. Read their biography. Its in there and many others including myself are sick and tired of the junk especially in the bias midsize market.

            13. I would love to have better tech so long as it is reliable and affordable. Yeah, I know the MB Gwagons are not what they are talked up to be. I will need to read up on this tech because I’m not familiar with it. I just know the air suspensions have been an embarrassing failure. They are great when they work but geez when they fail they really fail. The whole moral of the story is there is always something better no matter what. We take a Lamborghini Huracan and it will routinely hit 2.8 to 60. These cars are tuner’s delights because for about $5,000 you can have a 2.0 second run to 60. That begs the question why does Lambo not just spend the extra 5,000 itself so it can publish the fastest 0-60 for a factory car? The answer is that while some of these aftermarket parts are better, they are only better for a while and not tested extensively for years for this particular car. The rest of the equation is simply money. We all want to maximize profits.

              We have enough knowledge here both in theory and in practice to build a truck that the rest of the world could only dream of. The problem is that I’m not sure we could do it to sell for less than $100,000. Cost is an important factor. When many are building trucks on Tacomaworld they have some awesome ideas and builds yet so many of the things they do also affect the structural integrity of the vehicle. Sliders are a must for a serious rock crawler but they also affect the crash worthiness of the side impact. Those fancy steel front bumpers bolted to the frame also lower front impact safety scores.

              I hope that we push vehicles further and I hope it is done sooner than later. I think unfortunately that the customers in NA have been slighted to a degree because in part automakers have been given a pass on efficiency (yet many on here pine for a bigger V8) and once we found out we were self sufficient for oil we stopped seriously pursuing viable engine alternatives. We will see what he future holds but for me it will need to work right. I also think that when we bailed out the automakers that got government money we rewarded them for bad behavior.

              I also think it is sad that the Raptor is a one of a kind vehicle that is bashed so badly for being different and special. It is a unicorn. If we want something better maybe someone will build it. Right now it is in a class of one and no one else has had the kahunas to build something better. Peace and thank you for the link – I look forward to reading it and learning. The learning for me is the best part.

            14. @Rambro
              Portal axles with hydropneumatic suspension would be awesome. Bollinger has long way to go, but at least they do something. I would like to see them to use just less batteries, combined with microturbine generator. Turbine is small , powerful, light and efficient. Expensive still, but we are getting there.
              In that case, they wouldn’t need to put batteries everywhere they see a room for it and truck would have normal range and quick refuel, like regular gasoline.
              Something like Jaguar CX75 prototype. If they can fit this powerful technology in to the 2 seated, they can fit that in to the truck easily.


            15. Its frustrating for me to have had quadsteer and ride control not offered for over a decade now and to see it come back just proves how worthy it is. Audi has it now for 2017 as well. Yet why did we lose it where it was most useful? On a truck it has ten times the worth than it does on a car. And imagine if the Raptor had something as simple as ride control. My 15 year old Denali had a soft plush ride and a hard setting via electronic shocks. Imagine if they kept advancing on these shocks. The Raptor could stiffen its shocks and yes it would still sag via the springs but when you have to do a Moose maneuver with a loaded Raptor and you have a stiffened shock via an electronic setting you get less body roll. Electronic shocks are not expensive. Yet alone we have had pneumatic shocks/suspension since 1954. We have the H1 Hummer that solved the low hanging diff and argue all you want that that system was not reliable but it can be made reliable. Its a matter of mass producing the parts and materials that wont brake. We know we can solve the low hanging diff but yet something as capable as a PW is debilitated by it. Very frustrating. Bollinger releases their truck in 9 days. Thankyou to electric drive and battery advancements that someone other than the big three is here to try. And some of these manufacturers like you said did not deserve the bailout. They keep companies like Bollinger from catching roots and we live with the same old apple tree.

              A few posts way back when TFL introduced the new Tundra there was an older character that I dont think ever posted anything on TFL came out and said I was looking really forward to the new 2018 Tundra because he was wanting to trade in his 2007Tundra and he stated he was disapointed. Do you remember that? He stated he is just going to keep his 2007 because driving the 2018 is nothing really new or exciting. Another disapointment. Ford brought EB motors which has been the greatest thing in the truck industry since quadsteer. Otherwise there are major mechanical advantages that can easily and affordably be solved in the truck industry and they sell better than the SUV market yet they get the leftovers.

              Bollinger just didnt say they themselves are sick and tired of the current junk in the work truck industry because they thought that would be a sales pitch. They are genuinlly fed up with junk and they know they are not alone.

            16. Zvierra I agree Bollinger might be making a mistake by not using an on board generator, we will see in 9 days. But my biggest point is that companies like this that are trying to offer better choices need access to the market. Bailing out the big guns with our taxes was a big mistake. Other companies willing to do more would have us light years ahead of the junk we buy now

            17. No, there are many setups that are
              1. better
              2. cheaper
              3. faster
              I know that is hard for some narrow ways of thinking to believe, but believe it.
              Established auto companies want to make things to broaden the profit margin. I have nothing against profit, but it does not line up with what we could have if our government and thus voters, got smart and deregulated while at the same time fostered far more competition.
              Governments need to get out of the game of regulating to a high degree, and get into the business of breaking up monopolistic behavior to a high degree.

            18. After watching that Jay leno video Zviera posted really opens my eyes if they were not open already. That suspension sounds amazing and coming from the guy that owns every single amazing car on the planet Jay Leno really tells us we are driving junk. I agree Dan, If I did not agree already I am really in agreement now. The way Jay Leno talks about that suspension is the same thing that happened to quadrasteer. I feel cheated by the North American market. We bailed them out on our dollar and now they sit back and sell crap. No Zviera I never seen that Jay Leno video, can’t believe I have never seen it but that just goes to show how dumbfounded we are to learn of things like this. Wow the advantages to that suspension is amazing. It is too bad we do not demand it, but it is because we are not educated on it. Same thing happened with quadrasteer, everyone thought my wheels were broken because no one knew it existed and I found out about it in 2005 and it had been out since 2002. Always nice to learn new things, thanks for the links Zviera.

            19. You are very welcome. I am glad I could contribute a positive way. There is some safety regulation needed, but market should decide,what we want and drive.

            20. To address some of the comments further below:

              One little correction Moondog…I’m not sure the MB G-wagen uses air suspension. It never used to, at least through the mid-2000’s. Just a simple solid axle / long travel coil spring setup front and rear with offset diffs front and rear, just like a Range Rover Classic / Discovery I / II, and Defender. The G-wagen is an excellent vehicle. Its primary issue off road is that it actually doesn’t have much ground clearance. But they are well made. Land Rover was really the pioneer of air suspension on SUVs…used it from 1993 (Range Rover LWB) all the way to current on most of their vehicles. It was “cool” but largely unreliable. When it fails, the vehicle body settles on the suspension bump stops…resulting in no more ground clearance than your average sedan. Not what I’d want on an overland expedition!

              I’ve also owned an Audi A8 with air suspension…a total nightmare. A co worker has a Lincoln Navigator with air suspension…the entire system has been replaced one piece at a time. I have friends with a Mercedes S-Class and a VW Phaeton. Not only are the systems unreliable, but replacement parts are terribly expensive.

              So unless these systems can become very reliable and long-lasting, and ride-quality issues solved…they are not the solution.

              Now, the “airbag” suspension helper that Rambro commented on for the Raptor is a good idea. Lots of guys use it on pickup trucks with no ill effects. If I owned a Raptor, I’d probably install it. But keep in mind, these systems are *vastly* simpler than a fully integrated air spring system like what RAM uses or Land Rover or Mercedes, etc. They are just fillable rubber spring bladders and you hook an air compressor to them and manually fill them to the pressure you want. It is a pain in the rear to manually inflate / deflate, but it works.

              As for hydropneumatic systems like Citroen, they are also not terrible reliable. I had this system on the rear of a Mercedes station wagon from the 1990’s. It uses a pair of hydraulic rams that “level” the back of the car when it is loaded down. The rams are supplied fluid and pressure from the power steering pump. They use a mechanical height level which operates a valve opening level to control height. This is more reliable than the electronic height sensors used now, but slower to react. The biggest problem are the nitrogen accumulators which are the vehicle’s only “shock” absorbers. They routinely fail in a few years, and fittings can rust, etc. A hydraulic ram also allows only a very limited amount of suspension travel appropriate to a car…not an off-road truck.

              The bottom line is that a simple leaf spring suspension lasts a very long time, is cheap and easy to replace…and has been fine-tuned enough to provide very good ride quality. It is easy to install a lift on a leaf-spring vehicle. Maybe it is not totally ideal…but you cannot beat it for reliability and simplicity and low cost.

            21. Yes Troverman, you studied this system for couple of days well.
              Leafs are cheap , no luxury drive.
              I wouldn’t need a massage chair, if I had a hydropneumatic suspension. This system can be scaled up for trucks easily, with great articulations no problem and ford could make a mass production cheaply if wanted.
              Nah, to much effort needed. Let’s keep 2000 years old leafs, install 10 cameras and massage chairs.
              🐑 will buy it and pay premium anyway.

            22. @Troverman
              Please, for your own safety, check all your brake lines and ABS fittings. They must be all rusty. LOL.

            23. Zviera, might be a good idea to get rid of power steering as well and go manual and move back to spring brakes. This way we can get back to simplicity, reliability, corrosion resistant and get our exercise. This will reduce member ship fees at the gyms and save us even more money. Go for manual windows for ab dips. You will look better than the truck in no time.

            24. @Troverman, the newer G-Wagons (G550) are using air. :). The main thing for these suspensions is reliability, practicality and affordability. I’m all for going forward is we can do it and do it well. Ground clearance was always an issue for the older G-Wagons.

    12. @moondog:
      Thanks. Another facet is the dealer: they’re not all created equal.

      You’re spot on about Toyota not admitting wrong. No need to do it publicly, just to me then No QDR Tundra is no longer and we can bury the hatchet.

      I’m liking my HL more each day. It’s not a truck, but it is good we’ll built ride.

      Peace 🙂

      1. I was very disappointed to see Toyota also blame shift on the unintended acceleration issue. It was clearly an electronic sensor yet they installed floor mat hinges and basically blamed the customer for being too stupid to know how to keep floor mats in the vehicle (after using floor mats for roughly 100 years). A friend of mine works at a large firm that took them to task and got a huge verdict over it. Toyota fought it the whole way but deservedly lost. Maybe because they were so good for so long they became delusional. I love my Tacoma but the rear diff howl is ridiculous. Then again my new Yukon XL has the same howling, only louder. Take care, NoQDR and best of luck with that HL! Peace…

    13. @pete:
      The LC is epic; Series 80 is my favorite. That is Toyota’s best truck class vehicle hands down. Maybe I’ll go for one…

    14. I actually own a 2017 raptor and I love it, so talk all the thrash you want to cause the raptor eats it for breakfast. It’s funny because the haters hate because they can’t own one, if you don’t believe me find anyone that owns one that doesn’t like it and doesn’t find value in what they paid. Oh by the way the dealers sell them for msrp or higher and they all get sold, if this is such a terrible truck (lol) why is it so popular? I find the haters comments here hilarious and so transparent, it’s like haters hating on a supermodel. You just want what you will never have and instead of growing a pair and dealing with that they decide to talk shit in an attempt to bring the truck down to their level. Nice try haters….nice try

      My truck is fast, it looks badass, it gets constant compliments, it’s comfortable, it handles better than any truck I have been in, it tows my race car effortlessly, it hauls plenty of weight in the bed for me…..oh and I can jump it! Those are true statements from a person actually. qualified to say it.

      1. Exactly, the Raptor is just like a supermodel, the lights are on, but nobody is home. And we quietly are embarrassed for her husband.

      2. One boy’s toy towing another boy’s toy. IF you are pulling a race car, you don’t have any payload left to carry anything in the bed, or anyone else in the truck with you. Unless you overload it, endangering all of us around you. There are REAL reasons smart people don’t like Raptors. And popularity is rarely a good reason for something. That is called being a lemming.

      3. Thx Stephen,

        Great comments from someone that actually owns one – or has actually driven one!

        These are the type of comments I appreciate and strive to give myself!

        You’re also right on about the jealousy part – I want one!!! BAD

    15. If I had nothing better to do I would keep a spreadsheet of all the new screen names that emerge only to post negatively on a raptor article. Not constructively critical posts, but baseless claims. The raptor is a niche vehicle. It wasn’t designed to have the towing and hauling capacity of a standard f150. A standard f150 wasn’t designed to have the off road capability and wheel travel of a raptor. If a raptor doesn’t fit your niche or budget, buy something else and creep that forum.

    16. The new Raptor is a great truck and it is fast, however on Jeep trails my partner had to pull one out of the mud several times in one trip. They really don’t crawl or 4 wheel that well. Lack of a front locking diff and they are too wide for most Colorado trails. They are strictly a desert running machine, same thing with the H1 hummers. Too wide! My partner has a 97′ Toyota Land Cruiser with front, rear and center locking diffs and it went everywhere in the Colorado clay or mud that the Raptor wouldn’t. The Ecoboost is a throw away motor. Can you imagine seeing a 25 year old Ecoboost F-150 still running and wheeling like the old V8 powered trucks had? I can’t see them lasting that long without throwing a truck load of money into maintenance. I haven’t seen one with over 220,000 miles. The only truck built that I can see still running 25 years from now would be an F-150 with the 5.0 or a Silverado with an LS V8. The Ram trucks fall apart, the build quality is terrible. Take a look at a Dodge Ram built in 94′, they’re literally falling apart. Then take a look at 94′ Silverado, big difference in build quality.

      1. Will, don’t you think the Raptor’s issues in the mud can be contributed at least in part to the KO2s? A KO2 lasts a long time but they are not a good mud tire. Even though they are an AT they clog up far too easily and just don’t clean out well. Maybe they do better in the sand (I don’t know) but that tire has never been a good choice in the mud. Tires that clean out well and knowing how to drive means a lot in the mud. Where I am it is all about mud and sticky clay and I learned a long time ago a BFG KO is not the tire for me in that terrain. As far as the width, you are dead on. That thing is huge. But, for what it’s worth, it’s the best factory Baja truck we have (and only) it is a specialty truck. Those old LCs hold up well, much better than what a lot of people think, off road. I think it’s too early to tell about the EB longevity. Time will tell.

      2. The Raptor has a Torsen front diff. It essentially locks when slip happens, and it locks up very quickly. Torsen stands for Torque Sensing. It reacts almost instantly to slip. It was the center differential of choice for certain Range Rovers, Audi quattros, and yes…even certain Toyota 4Runners had a Torsen diff.

        The Land Cruiser is a good vehicle…although it is getting worse with each new generation. The 80 series like your buddy’s ’97 is very stout…but it isn’t great looking, is pretty underpowered with the inline-6, and has a pretty bad interior. The 100 series was the best looking Land Cruiser ever made, better interior, but a little less stout.

        To say the EcoBoost motor is a “throw-away motor” is very misinformed. There is nothing about these engines that would make them somehow less reliable than any other engine. In fact, there are several features that could make them last longer than an average engine.

        1. Saying anything is a throwaway engine in today’s market is far less tha misinformed- it’s ridiculous. Will the EB last as long as a 5.0? I don’t know but we will know in a few years. I’m seeing these with over 200k miles. So far, that is not too shabby.

    17. Somebody said just buy a dirt bike instead of a Raptor.

      Problem is I can’t sip my coffee at 80 mph while consuming vast stretches of poorly maintained interstate highways 🙂

      Best write up said “this new Raptor goes over Michigan Pot Holes better than my $100,000 Range Rover!”

      So if you like to drive over small canyons (and the occasional Haters you run across – PUN INTENDED), then buy a Raptor. Otherwise buy something LESS!

    18. Came across a brand new Cement Grey Raptor yesterday at the grocery. I must admit that seeing it live, it’s a beautiful truck. The owner comes out and notices me looking around and I ask do you go off road much? Naw never! I thought WOW. Said he paid 73K. Black leather interior, yes I would take a Raptor.

      1. That is true if all you wanted to do is use your truck as a basic pickup. But no pickup truck offered comes with 35″ tires, long travel, soft and compliant suspension, 450HP / 510lb-ft engine, and the level of 4×4 system sophistication that comes on the Raptor. You simply can’t “personalize” a pickup to the level of the Raptor. Yes, its expensive.

    19. I just posted this on the other Raptor article and thought it was worth posting here.
      Please see the link below for Raptor payload capacity. It is 1000 pounds for the Supercab and 1200 for the Supercrew. You will find this on page 31 of the F-150 brochure. For those who like math, that’s enough for two dirt bikes in the back, a father and son, and all their gear. A Suzuki RM 125 weighs in at 192 pounds and a 250 weighs in at 218. That is what the truck is built for.

      1. Man, you put near 1000 lbs in a Raptor and you really will
        be scraping your long belly all over the trail.
        But really, it is irresponsible to tell people to look anywhere but the door sill to find the payload of a vehicle. It is different for every single unit. And it is rarely as high as the published rating, and we all know many overload and endanger all of us and many die every year because of this.

        1. I wonder what happens to a 2500 Ram that has the suspension swapped for off road shocks. I dont believe they come from the factory this way so the door sticker will be as if it is a 2500HD with no modification. Is the PW package changing the regular 2500 Ram HD to lower payloads as well? Such as the off road Ram HD

        2. Hal, every single Raptor I have looked at had the same payload published on the door jamb. I agree with you as a general rule that you need to be careful because different trucks have different configurations to include tire choices that can vary the payload BUT the Raptor is an easy one as they all have the same tires and suspensions. It is what Ford says it is in the brochure. I have seen it myself countless times. Yes, we have guys packing down trucks like crazy and they don’t even understand what payload really is. They forget that the people and things you carry in the cab matter…PEACE.

    20. To Tfl the new Bronco is a body on frame it should be on tfltruck not tflcar it shares the same frame as the ford ranger if the ranger is on tfltruck so should the Bronco it does not belong at tflcar i know you guys would like to say jeep wrangler vs Bronco but the Bronco belongs on tfltruck not tflcar.

    21. Pretty much I see that there isn’t any love for the raptor. You guys don’t seem to have a lot of good things to say about it.

      Price increases are normal every year nothing new here.

    22. It’s pretty sad that you have so many truck novices here. There are niches in the truck community. The Raptor fills a niche. 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and off roads just fine. Watch some review videos where they put the new Raptor up against some of the best off-roaders in the market and it destroys the overwhelming majority of them. If you are someone who needs to pull A LOT of weight then Ford has other options. I think most of the hate is pure jealousy to be honest.

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