• GM Full-size Trucks Decline in Sales, Ram, Ford, and Others are Up in May 2017 (Sales Report)

    2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 Redline

    Ram sold more pickup trucks in the United States during May 2017 than Chevrolet. This is turning into a trend, as Ram pickup trucks is approaching Chevy Silverado numbers in Year-To-Date (YTD) sales. Ford F-Series numbers are continuing to improve. Toyota Tundra had a good May, but it is still down for the year.  Nissan Titan and Titan XD sales are slowly picking up numbers.

    Full-Size Truck Sales – May 2017

    May 2017 # May 2017/2016 YTD 2017 # YTD 2017/2016 %
    Ford F-Series 76,027 12.8% 351,961 8.5%
    Ram 44,850 16.0% 207,370 8.0%
    Chevrolet Silverado 43,804 -2.7% 212,425 -5.2%
    GMC Sierra 16,200 -8.2% 83,410 -6.6%
    Toyota Tundra 10,677 9.6% 43,809 -3.8%
    Nissan Titan 4,937 435.5% 20,265 289.5%

    Here is a graph provided by Bernie Kressner to illustrate the progression of sales.

    (by Bernie Kressner)

    How efficient are the newest half-ton truck with towing a trailer? Check out the video below.

    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    161 thoughts on “GM Full-size Trucks Decline in Sales, Ram, Ford, and Others are Up in May 2017 (Sales Report)

    1. I have never in my life seen such a separation between Ford and Chevy in truck sales. Chevy really needs to step up their game sooner than later. I was going to say I’ve never seen such as distance between number 1 and 2 but it looks like Chevy is going to have a hard time holding that 2 Sport for much longer. Ram has passed them again.

    2. Not surprised. The Ram has a nicer interior and a lower price with bigger incentives. Ram’s quality is historically inferior, but post-bankruptcy GM trucks are not great in that regard either. You could tell GM was in trouble when, instead of releasing genuine improvements, they rolled out all of these tawdry appearance-only “special editions”, like the one pictured.

      GM needs to hit a home run with the new truck they’re rolling out next year. Ford is killing them on engine and transmission technology among other gizmos and *the availability of that technology as an option across trim levels* and Ram has a far superior interior and UX screen and lower prices.

      This latest Silverado is an ugly duckling. It’s unattractive, has an old, low-power engine (unless you get the top-most trim), fit-finish is bad, materials are cheap, and the interior on the LTZ is a STEP BACK from the one that came before it.


      1. RNUOVR – – –

        “Oh, and GET RID OF THE FRONT AIR DAM.”

        I’m not sure than can do that easily, since it’s actually part of the cooling system* (go figure!)
        It would take a major front-end redesign, as they had done on the Colorado ZR2, which no longer has the air dam.

        * This is like the insane BMW I had once, in which the windshield was part of the structure that held the car together, — for efficiency, of course…(^_^).


        1. I don’t believe that is actually true. Numerous people have removed or severely cut theirs down and gone years with absolutely zero cooling problems. They tell people it’s vital for cooling to keep them from taking it off. The truth is that it’s a cheap stop-gap measure to meet CAFE standards.

          1. Took my air dam off my 2014 LTZ when I lifted it 2 years ago and no difference in cooling what so ever!!!

        2. Bernie, Motor Trend did it and tested a normal Colorado for thousands of miles and concluded the air dam made no difference in mpg or cooling.

          1. Moondog, Jesse, and RNUOVR – – –

            1) “Numerous people have removed or severely cut theirs down and gone years with absolutely zero cooling problems.”

            2) “Took my air dam off my 2014 LTZ when I lifted it 2 years ago and no difference in cooling what so ever!!!”

            3) “Motor Trend did it and tested a normal Colorado for thousands of miles and concluded the air dam made no difference in mpg or cooling.”

            Wow. Thanks, guys. That clinches it.

            The only things left are:
            A) The air dam was simplistically thought to help cooling/mpg, but never tested properly; OR …
            B) It was used as a styling/design element that might improve sales (“because everybody else has them…”)


            1. I think it DOES improve MPG in *testing scenarios*.

              These people are smart.

              They wouldn’t create molds, buy plastic, and pay people to work that part of the line if there was no point. And there’s no way they thought it was attractive.

              It’s functional, just not in the real world.

              I guarantee that however they *TEST* for MPG is stilted in some way that the air dam is advantageous.

              Maybe they do it on rollers in wind tunnel. I don’t know exactly, but I’d bet a lot of money that the test is a contrived scenario and GM’s engineers, who are very smart people, said “Ah ha! Well, if *that’s* how they’re going to test for MPG, we can throw this plastic catfish chin on there and get 1 better MPG *under the conditions of the TEST*, which will help the Company meet the overall fleet CAFE number imposed on us by the Government.”

            2. You are correct. The percentage could be very small like .1 or .2 % better fuel economy. You and I may never see it but it helps the manufacturers overall fleet efficiency ratings.

      2. I think it is the front air dam that is hurting their sales. I think my bitching about it for the past 10 years on the internet has created enough internet minions now that everyone notices the debilitating ground clearance before they purchase a GM product and move on elsewhere. Just my current thought. Plus they must have received enough negative feedback on it by now that, that is why they created the ZR2

      3. I add one more to the list for gm rnuovr. Aluminum and ram would be wise to go that route.

      4. Ram remains to be, by far, the cheapest truck you can get in to.

        The term commonly used is “buying market share”. It’s why FCA sales are up and they are flat broke.

        1. Here’s the deal: it’s been the cheapest FOREVER, but it was also always the worst at everything. That changed in the latest generation when they rolled out what is the BEST interior and UX screen/system. Now, in addition to being the cheapest, they’re also the BEST in one area, which is a big difference from before.

    3. Ford already sells the 10-speed they CO-DEVELOPED with GM as an option across almost every trim-level of the F-150. Meanwhile, at GM, you can’t get it in even the highest trim Silverado or Sierra. That pretty much says it all.

      But wait, says GM, who wants *that* when you can get a stock Silverado that comes with a trashy camouflage deer antler sticker on the side and a hideous light bar in the bed!? How do you do, fellow kids?

      1. 8 SPD Automatic isn’t that bad rnuovr, but do get your point. You can get it in ZR1 Camaro.

      2. Just like you can’t get a co developed 9 speed in a Ford? Ford had first access to the 10, GM gets first access to the 9. You will see a some 2018 and a lot of 2019 GM trucks use the 10.

    4. RNUOVR you pretty much nailed it. GM needs to launch something big and do it soon BUT I’m not sure they have the engine tech for trucks right now to do it unless they dip into the TTV6 well from Caddy and I’m not sure how that engine would perform in a true truck application. I despise the immovable front air dam and think the front end is hideous but time will tell if they come out with something better. Right now Ford owns the fullsize market and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

    5. It doesn’t look like Mary Barra is doing a very good job at all. I wonder how the Colorado/Canyon sales are doing compared to the fullsize.

        1. You could not be more wrong. GM is making mad loot.

          Meanwhile, Ford and FCA are dumping vehicles into fleets making little to no profit (on fleet sales, FCA makes little profit on almost everything).

          Looking at the big picture, GM is doing far far better than FCA and better than Ford.

          1. FCA has 7.3% profit, GMs raised to 8.2% from 7.1% for the first quarter and Fords margin was 5.4% for the first quarter.

            1. Looks like zombriara has several user names here. Made a little mistake on your name buddy. And that FCA profit is really sad. They should be much higher than that. They have not updated plants like Ford. They have not updated vehicles like Ford or GM. They pay the lowest wages for their workers of the Detroit manufacturers. Just wait till FCA has to sink money in plants, r@d, and come up with some small and medium sized cars for the market.

            2. Yes , I made mistake, when posting. Please , feel free to post any source you have for your constant ranting, when you see my nick name all the time.
              I am out for the TFL’s sake for today.
              Have a great weekend everyone.

      1. I read something saying the Canyon sales are down but have not heard on the rest. I do think GM is more diversified than Ford as a whole but look for that to change soon. Ford outsold GM this month overall. Let’s face it, trucks are big money and GM is slipping. If Ford brings a good Ranger and doesn’t water down the engines they will instantly compete with Toyota for tops in midsize sales. Toyota is vulnerable now because of third generation launch issues.

        1. Put 3 or 4 engine choices in the ranger. A base 4 cylinder, a 2.3 ecoboost, 2.7 ecoboost. Year 2 add a diesel if there is a market for it and people are willing to pay for it.

          1. Scott it will not be the 2.3 Ecoboost! The 2.0 is going to be the standard engine.

            1. 2.0 NA 4 cylinder, 2.3 turbo 4 cylinder from the mustang. 2.7 v6 turbo. That should be the engine lineup

            2. No Scott the 2.0 is not a n/a engine. It is turbo it is in st focus and in the escape. It might be in the fusion to. This will be the last year of the focus RS with the 2.3 engine. Now I don’t know what will happen with that engine. As the engine as is it will not go in the ranger. It is to high strung for such application. 2.0 is a proven engine it will be the base engine.

            3. That is a 2.5 n/a engine. Makes a little more than the 1.5 (I think) turbo in HP but little little less in tq. As far as I know there is no 2.0 n/a engine.

            4. K I see that there is a 2.0 n/a engine. Sorry I didn’t know they made 2.0 n/a engine.
              I still say it will be 2.0 turbo engine for the standard engine for the ranger and 2.7 TT engine for option. So all this didn’t change my opinion on the ranger.

            5. The old Ranger with the 2 valve 2.3L was a dog and the 4v version was a little better. So if they did a 2.0L version in the new Ranger which would likely be bigger and heavier would be worse. So a 2.0L ecoboost engine as a base engine would make the most sense to me if they went that route. They are building enough of those engines now they should be relatively cheap to build now.

    6. I think GM’s problems with their trucks started when they introduced it at the Detroit Auto show only to be one-upped by Ford at the same show when they released the Atlas concept soon to be F150 pickup. It took the wind out of their sales. Plus their advertising does nothing to show the features and benefits of their trucks, only “special editions” and trying to make fun of Ford. Then their disguised test trucks have an “oval” in the grill to look like a Ford. Next month Ram will overtake Chevy as the #2 truck maker.

      1. You raised an obvious point that we missed – like it or not advertising matters and GM could not have failed more miserably in this department. The should have left the gimmicks at the door and talked about things like real world mpg and capabilities. They didn’t and instead focused on gimmick commercials that will bite them later and fake trophy commercials.

        1. I just seen one of the latest commercials. A guy with a hair bun describes the vehicle as a “bad mamajama” my god that is terrible.

          1. That comment bugs me every time I see the commercial..terrible marketing campaign “Bad mamajama” embarrassing.

            1. Or the guy that runs and hugs the front end of the truck or when the truck comes out of the floor the other guy jumps.

        2. I believe gm’s dropping sales numbers have more to do with them losing loyal lifelong customers than it has to do with their stupid commercials. I’m sure those commercials, with which they have completely flooded the airways with, have brought them some customers who are crossing over from ram or ford to gm. But let’s take gm half-ton truck owners. These people are normally very brand loyal. But what is gm ‘s solution to the vibration issue been. We don’t know! What has been their solution for the cabin pressure issues in their large suv’s. We don’t know! Most of these loyal customers will not be loyal again. And these folks are the ones buying fords and rams this month instead of gm. And even if gm completely redesigns their 2018 models most of these abused and neglected customers will not be guinea pigs again. Not for many years to come.

          1. Oh, and I was doing so well by not mentioning the drivetrain vibration and cabin pressure BUT since it was mentioned I will tell you what they are doing. They are burying their heads in the sand and pretending it only exists for a picky few when it is widespread. If you make enough noise then you get to start about a year long process of dealing with corporate where I SWEAR these people all have the exact same script they go from. They blame shift to you and say it is a normal vehicle characteristic. Then, if you lawyer up or make enough noise they will entertain a trade assist but even then they nickel and dime you to death. I held firm and got a more expensive vehicle by $3000 for $545. I only paid that because getting them to zero would have taken about 6-8 more weeks. The vibration and cabin pressure issues are very, very real and if you are not willing to fight they win.

          2. My brother just bought an f350 yesterday and as we were test driving it, he looked at me and said “why the heck were we so obsessed with Chevy’s growing up? These fords are so much better!” I had a 2014 sierra 1500 and got rid of it for an f150 a year later. The ford is in a class of its own compared to the sierra.

    7. I believe the Titan could have beat the Tundra this month if Nissan would actually keep 1/2 ton inventory on their lots. Over the past few weeks I’ve visited several Nissan lots and most have no more than one 1/2 ton on the lot….all XD’s.

      1. I agree. Another important fact to consider is Nissan is slowly rolling out the Titan by limiting inventory to all but a few select cities. Do google search for “Nissan is doing a careful and slow rollout of the Titan and Titan XD” for a link to an article describing it.

      2. Dealer allocation for Titans and XDs is no longer limited at all. The reason you don’t see them all over the lots of Nissan dealers is because the dealer doesn’t want to be stuck with something that doesn’t sell. These trucks are among the most expensive things Nissan sells, and a bunch of them is a lot of value on the floorplan.

        The Tundra is aging hard (the last “update” was not that great) while the Titan is all new. Given the choice, I’d be in the Titan.

        1. All true Troverman. That Titan is pricey. It is growing on me and since Toyota is determined to ignore the Tundra look for the Titan to pass it because, while not perfect, at least Nissan is committed to the fullsize market.

        2. They’re not selling at all when most of them go to only 4 cities? Yes, the XD diesel is pricey, but so are all other diesel trucks.

          It would be informative to see how long a diesel truck, not just the Titan, but all of them, sit on a dealer’s lot–consumer sales only, not fleet. For example, a diesel Canyon sat a local dealer lot for more than six months.

          1. I need to clarify “most of them”; it should read “dealers in select cities receive a larger proportion of them”.
            Also, there’s only one plant, shared, that is assembling them.

          2. The thing about “all other diesel trucks” is they are so much more capable than the Titan XD. Heck, my f150 has a higher payload than the XD.

    8. It’s weird that GM had a strong year last year and this year it appears they are losing sales. They do need to do something soon because the 2018 F150 is a sexy truck and I believe it will be flying off the shelves. Especially with the partially revamped powertrain. Ram is hitting incentives pretty hard and their truck fleet pricing is really low. This in turn really helps them move product.

    9. GM’s Oil burning 5.3 literis catching up to them!!! guys are sick of them… we switched to all ram! all 5 of our 5.3 motors burned oil!

    10. Andre – – –

      Even though your table shows Silverado and Sierra as separate entries, and the Ram beat the Silverado (May data), in fact all three American manufacturers are competing against the pickup truck offerings from the parent manufacturers.

      So, since Sierra and Silverado come down the same assembly lines, and are essentially the same vehicles (except facade and some options), shouldn’t you add a row that combines data from those two?

      Look, I’m a Ram guy, and love it that the un-updated Silverado, — good truck that it is — is taken to the cleaners, but am trying to be objective here…(^_^)…


    11. Bernie kressner
      You could add those numbers together but the results are going to be the same . Gm total numbers are in a death spiral. Exactly for the reasons you said. They come down similar production lines with mostly identical parts and designs and the same inherent, unfixed problems.

    12. Bernie’s point is valid. Even though Silverado and Sierra are two different “brands,” GM makes profit on both of them as essentially the same thing. So in terms of sales from full-size trucks, GM is still ahead of RAM.

      The latest Silverado design is a flop. 2019 will rectify things pretty well for GM, I do believe.

      1. Quite honestly you can combine or take away the numbers based on assembly line production but remember, assembly lines are equipped to handle different makes of vehicles. One of Fords assembly lines produces the F150 and the full sized Transit. I believe the Fusion and Mustang are built in the same factory. To make money, plants have to be able to do this. But in the end, I don’t care who sells more trucks even though I do root more for Ford. As long as people are buying trucks the way they are, it is good for everyone.

        1. No there not Jimmy Johns. Mustang is built at flat Rock. Fusion might be built in flat Rock , but I think it is in Mexico. Yes the transit van is built at the same plant in kc with f-150. Dearborn plant builds the other half of the f-150. There was talk moving expedition to Dearborn , but that has not happen. That is at the Louisville Kentucky truck plant for now.

      2. Troverman
        Bernie ‘s point is valid! So is mine, gm truck and suv sales have been sliding downhill for months. And it’s due in no small part to their failure to recall and fix the stated problems. Just ask our friend, Moondog! If it were your vehicles you would be ticked off too!

        1. Always good hearing from you, my friend. You are correct, if they had been through what we had been through (and are going through again) they would be ticked. I’m just waiting for an Expedition or Jeep GW(build it FCA).

      3. Not so much. GMC to Chevy is like Cadillac to Buick. GM uses the luxury niche for potential truck customers to market their upscale GMC. I heard there was internal talks at one time to get rid of GMC but that luxury truck badge image saved it. They may be built alongside them but many things are built alongside each other. I bet if GM killed off GMC that they would lose tons of sales because not all those shoppers would go to Chevy and GM knows it.

        1. Actually I was surprised that GM kept the GMC brand when they went through the restructuring in 2008. With them downsizing names, the GMC name was a surprise. Pontiac was a name I would have bet money they would have kept. It was kind of a performance oriented brand.

          1. A lot of infighting at GM at that time. They chose Buick because of China and Buick had the better SUV chances. I think GMC was being looked at hard as well but they kept it.

            1. Truth. Saving Buick was 100% because of China. To most Americans it made no sense, but bizarrely, in China, Buick is considered a prestige brand. Buick to the Chinese is like Mercedes is to Americans. It was a good decision. They sell a lot of them there at huge margins. Look at Ford for what could have happened to GM had they axed Buick – Ford has zero presence in China.

    13. I traded my ’17 Silverado for an ’18 Ram two weeks ago. I should have learned from my last Chevy truck experience and never bought the ’17. Chevy’s test drive well but they are hard to live with.

        1. You are correct, ’16 Chevy for ’17 Ram. Sorry, guess that is what I get for posting here when I am supposed to be working.

      1. Jeremy
        Would you mind sharing your experience with your silverado and why you decided to trade it in so soon. First hand experience is the best. Thanks!

        1. My experience with the Silverado. Weird oscillation between 60 and 75, made my wife and daughter car sick. Harsh shifts a low speed (25-35), like really harsh and loud. Long hesitation when applying power at low speeds, e.g. when trying to change lanes, the truck would just sit there for a second like it was trying to decide whether or not to do what I say. Under heavy throttle (hard acceleration, towing) there is a portion of the rpm range where the engine vibrates terribly. Not good in the snow. Also tore part of the front air dam and one of the rear air deflectors off during a snow storm. Never achieved the advertised mpg, first time ever. CarPlay often had issues, don’t know if it was the phone or the head unit. Finally, I don’t like that GM uses a wax coating on the frame (you can scratch it off with your fingernail), I had rust in areas after 1 yr.
          The Ram has a smoother power delivery, nice storage in the rear floor bins (crew cab) and molded storage under the rear seat, has a more “solid” ride but still comfortable, has a nicer interior (my opinion) but is a little louder, is great in the snow, doesn’t make the family car sick, and doesn’t seem to bat an eyelash when pushed toward the max when hauling or towing.
          For the record I have owned – 2 Fords they were good trucks, I just think the new ones are ugly – 2 Chevys that I liked on the test drive but tired of quickly – 2 Rams, the first was a 2010 which was the best truck I’ve ever owned, just out grew it when our youngest was born.

          1. I had all of these issues and more but I guess we were that small few according to GM…I’m sure it was just all in our heads. My wife and two of my four daughters stayed sick in our last Yukon XL. The cabin pressure is better, at least some, in this one but the vibration started a few thousand miles ago so the leash is very short. I’m just waiting on the Expedition or may get the Mercedes GLS.

            1. K thxs
              I figured there 6 SPD was a pretty solid transmission. I guess maybe not.

    14. Ram is going to benefit greatly from GMs terrible sales in the past three months. RAM has new customers in their trucks that will now notice how far RAM has come in the past 6 years with ride comfort, best in class interior (my opinion) and better reliability than years past.
      And…. with extremely low monthly lease incentives to owners of a different brand, sounds like a great marketing plan!!

    15. As a current owner of a 2015 GMC sierra 2500hd. Ford has kicked GM’s tail in the sales department. For a long time. Every time the ecoboost gets brought up, gm or v8 fan boys always say “there is no replacement for displacement” or “I just dont trust a v6 with turbos to last as long as a v8”. But say what you want, it has bin wildly successful for ford. It took less then 3 years to have over a million ecoboost trucks on the road and now it makes up 70% of there sales. I personally think they all make a great truck but ford sells a lot more then everyone else and its not because they make a garbage product.

    16. Well that new 3.5 with 10 speed really didn’t do much to beat fuel milage of 2016. Only .6 Really. So much for expectations.

    17. My opinion/turn is the Ram does not need an update. They are still in my opinion the best looking trucks to date with the best looking interior. For some to say they are outdated is not true and their growth in sales is better than any other manufacturer but they are rated poorly by consumer reports regardless. Ford has a much improved look that I can definitely live with but the Ram still looks way better. and they have a Rebel, which is a reasonably priced truck actually ready for Off road work or play with an industry exclusive air ride control. Kudos to Ram here for stealing sales at the highest of margins.

      As for Ford, they are late to the table with the Ranger. GM sells just as many trucks as Ford and at least they offer two models in the 1/2 ton and two models in the midsize with a ZR2. I would rather have options than have the companies fighting over who sells the most 1/2 tons just for bragging rights. It does nothing for the consumer. Your left with a bunch of F150 options debilitated by dimensional restraints, great options but only in one available size of truck, same with Ram. Toyota and GM are the only ones offering two truck sizes as of late, well as of forever for Toyota.

      But its still sad that no one offers a small truck and where did the Regular cab short box go? TFL may say we have great options and some are an improvement but we have less options today than we had yesterday. Fighting over 1/2 tons sales is a big thorn in this truck industry. The amount of options are depleted to 1/2 tons but even GM lost 4 wheel steering and ride control on their 1/2 tons. Very depressing to me.

      I hope GM continues to offer options rather than try to reighn in on 1/2 ton sales, just a complete loss to the consumer who wants and needs better options

      1. Rambro the f-150 offers more options than any other truck in the half ton market. That is one reason they are leading in sales. No other half ton manufacturer can claim that.

            1. I do agree the half tons have been getting bigger , but that seems what the customers​ want. I’d imagine fords are probably pretty close to gm and ram on dementions. If you put the tape measures to all 2 of them​.

            2. But there are customers who truly need smaller trucks and would benefit from better engine choices like what they have in midsize SUV’s
              All the focus is on sales volume in the 1/2 ton segment rather than choice. Choice is plentiful option wise in a large truck.

              To say that is what people want is false. They are constrained to CAFE requirements, bragging rights in the 1/2 ton segment due to vanity and a disrespect or ignorance towards choice.

              GM offers two truck sizes and so does Toyota and although not perfect they are better than Ford at this point for offering that. They deserve the credit.

    18. Sometimes I wonder if people really think about the things that they say. Wow, just wow

      1. +1

        RAM is just as dimensionally constrained as Ford.
        Yet this RAMTARD just rants about Ford

          1. Didn’t hurt my feelings.

            You hurt your credibility by complaining about Ford, while praising Fiat Chrysler

            1. No I agreed that Ram only offers one size of truck. Maybe you are illiterate then. My credibility isn’t hurt and wouldn’t care either way but I do have to clear the wrongs when the air stinks.

    19. I’ve been super happy with my 2014 Ram, it is a quality truck. I’m actually thinking about buying another one mainly to get the crew cab.

    20. Sad to see GM in such a mess, but that’s what you get when you build ugly, low quality, and expensive trucks. My advice- let Chevy build cars (Camaro and Corvette seem to be getting the investment $$) and let GMC build the trucks.

      1. It was never game over when they had it and was cheating emissions. Why would it be better now? Especially since your boy said they had to do it in order to protect the engine.

    21. My turn.
      Don’t seem to be a lot love for the looks of the gm trucks.

      Now before you get all excited that gm might start slipping away from ram. I believe gm will do the same as ram run deep discounts​ to keep pace with ram. I have said before it will be a race for 2nd to the end between gm and ram.

      I have also stated that ram has same problem as gm there is no invitate​d ideas either. They are running on old platform that has not been updated in a long time. Deep discounts​ and looks will only go so far.
      That is also probably one of the reason ram and gm are competing with each other and not with Ford.

      As for sales numbers no real surprises. Except Toyota pick up the pace.
      I red that Toyota might have a new tundra for 2019. That is a long way for running on a old platform. Will see.

      1. I’ll add one more thing to my thought that everybody seems to be over looking. And that is aluminum. It might be a big reason why Ford is out ahead in sales.

          1. It’s not like automakers can force a fleet to take their vehicles. The fleet managers choose who to buy from. They look at cost of ownership not just purchase price. If it’s not attractive they won’t buy.

            1. Of course they can and they do. They can get fleet agent much better pricing, to get rid of the cars,to keep market penetration.
              Everyone is looking just on final numbers. Fleet managers can’t resist the pricing they are getting from ford.
              This business concept is not sustainable for very long time and will change soon.

              Ford Motor Co. posted a 2.3 percent​ May sales gain — and outsold crosstown rival General Motors for the first time since March 2016 thanks to an increase in fleet sales.

              Ford’s sales to daily rental companies jumped 2.7 percentage points, representing 15.7 percent of its total May sales. Its total fleet sales rose 8.4 percent, representing 34.4 percent of sales.

              That helped Ford break a four-month long sales skid, despite retail sales falling 0.8 percent.

          2. Actually Ford cannot increase their fleet sales. Fleet customers has to come to Ford to buy them. You are also not seeing the big picture either. The rental car market is a rather big market and with fiat not selling small cars, they are forced to turn elsewhere. Ram trucks continue to be the cheapest entry for fleet truck entry. They are typically several thousand less than any of the competitors. I was just told by a pretty reliable source the police charger can be had for around $16K. That is really cheap for a full sized car. Several thousand less than a Taurus interceptor. And way less than the Explorer interceptor. However the trend right now is going with the Explorer.

            1. It is not about weather if it makes him feel better fast botes and big trucks. I believe Jimmy Johns is probably correct when you are on the highway the police do use a lot of chargers.
              I also believe is right on the trends are changing on the police front.
              And he is correct about fca not selling many cars to the rental fleets , because they don’t have many models of cars that they make. Now I know it doesn’t make you feel better since I told you all that, but that is way it is.

            2. I’ve been telling for 2 years in the forums, that small cars are dead. No one can get rid of them for free, Ford is no exception. Just look at the GM and Ford advertising. Small cars, small cars, small cars. FCA doesn’t need to deal with bad portfolio strategy and lose money on them.
              SUVs and Trucks. That’s where the market is right now. Even Pacifica sells exceptionally well, Ford doesn’t even produce.
              So yes, I feel good about FCA, because they are doing well.

            3. Zobriea, small cars are still booming. As Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia. They are killing it. American car companies just have have what they have. But Ford and GM have car s in their portfolio. So when we get 6 months of high fuel prices and people run to small cars, Ford and GM will be ready.

              Not sure why you are hard on the new Chrysler minivan. But if you like them so much, head over to that forum so we can stick to trucks here.

            4. Further proof zombria don’t know what he is talking about. He always says no one asked for expensive aluminum. Yet he says Ford is giving away vehicle to fleet sales. However Ford pulls in more money than FCA. How does that work?

            5. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia are killing it. Yes, but not a Ford. Ford cars are down -10.9% for May again.
              Police Interseptor Utility is down -2%.
              Every third vehicle Ford sold in May was to the government, fleet, or rental.

            6. Oh you poor fool zombria? You walked into that one like I figured. Ford has 3 of the top selling cars. GM has a few. Fiat, nothing.

            7. I am not sorry to burst your bubble,but Fiat builds a small cars mostly and Europe is full of them,so they can bring whatever they want to, if there is a demand on the NA market, which is not, so why bother.

            8. They have nothing that can be brought over here. They cannot meet emission standards ( especially diesels haha), safety standards and fiat sells squat here. What makes you think even if some of those cars from Europe came here people would suddenly buy them now? Then throw on top that all of FCA products rank the lowest in reliability.

            9. One thing FCA is doing wrong is dropping there line of small cars and banking on there trucks to pull them through. If buy chance gas prices goes up them trucks are not going to be a help for them. Sure you can say that Ford and gm sales are not that strong compared to the others , but they do well enough to stay in the game. They have something to fall back on if gas prices shoot up.

            10. Exactly, plus they continue to make updates aloof the way to compete with the market. Except the Taurus. That bugger is old and needs some new ideas. But the fact remains, Ford and GM are in the game and ready to roll harder if needed. Withe contentions around the world right now, who knows what can happen.

            11. Yep Jimmy Johns. Agree on all that. I don’t know why Ford let Taurus get so far behind on not updating it. Something that mark fields didn’t do very well not keeping up with model updates and overhaul.

              I sure like to see a new Taurus sho in coupe form.

            12. @Mark, FCA is not banking just on the trucks,but SUVs and minivans,GM and Ford doesn’t produce.
              FCA sold more SUVs and minivans, than GM or Ford.
              Gasoline will stay down for very long time and FCA will bring any small car you want from Europe. Even smaller,than GM or Ford produces, if needed.
              It doesn’t make sense to produce a small car people don’t buy, just in the case, that gasoline goes up. It make sense to sell, what people wants. Trucks , SUVs and minivans.
              Let me give you an example.
              If customer is on the market for Truck, because he needs one, he is going to buy a truck regardless and will compare it with competition and pricing on the market. RAM has better pricing than Ford and more profit than Ford from one unit. I don’t know,how Ford can compete,when gasoline goes up. Customer is not going to buy a Ford Fiesta instead, but RAM.

            13. Now that’s funny. Zombiera is trying to convince us people want mini vans. There is a reason SUVs are where they are, most people don’t want mini vans. And his magic crystal ball is saying fuel prices will remain low for years and FCA can bring over crap cars and meet US standards in a heart beat and sell to the masses. Well, that was my entertainment for the day.

            14. June 3, 2017 at 9:00 am
              I don’t know,how Ford can compete,when gasoline goes up. Customer is not going to buy a Ford Fiesta instead, but RAM.

              This is a sign of someone hitting the bottle early in the morning. Yes fuel prices go up so people flock to ram trucks. The truck with the worst fuel economy of all trucks.

            15. My my I didn’t think the Ford fiesta can Garner so much attention from a ram fan.
              Zviera them Fiats are selling like hotcakes ! Matter afact if they just put a little DSL in them shoot them things would be off the charts!
              Zviera let’s come back down to earth. Ford has cars are ready for that possibility of gas increase. I’m in agreement that gas is going to stay low, but Ford will not have out source or run on another plat form like fca does because Ford is already established. That is the point I’m making. Chrysler dropped kick the 200 so now they have to go to Europe to establish a small car. That might be to late. Fiat just doesn’t have that capacity to make a lot of little cars. You even said that ram is looking at going to another plant to keep up demand Which i red the same thing. So my opinion it is not all sunshine and roses over at FCA.

            16. @Marc , FCA has more capacity than Ford worldwide. They just opened another factory in India for Jeep. Ford is going down , because of poor market reading and management. Sharply.
              Next month is going to be crucial for them. No fleets, no minivans, no small cars.
              I can’t wait for June numbers.

    22. I think for Ram to be this close to Chevy they are already winning. No one ever thought they would do this but they have and they did it by outworking and outsmarting Chevy. Chevy could not have screwed up their trucks more and Ram did just about everything right. If you need more towing capacity then they have a comfortable 2500 to show you with a proven and capable engine. Ford is king no doubt but kudos to Ram for bringing it every day. Ford is on some otherworldly truck run like I have never seen in my lifetime and others are stepping up as a result. In the end there has never been a better time to be a truck buyer.

    23. I think adding a turbocharged gas engine in the Ram would up their sales even more. It’s a quality truck and diverse engine options help sales.

        1. They will have soon. They are shuffling RAM and Jeep factories right now, to produce more of them.

        1. It’s hard to say but you know Ram has to be looking at all of the F150 sales and wondering how to sell even more trucks. I’m not saying be a copycat but a little competition in some areas is nice.

    24. The real sales number should be GMC & Chevrolet combined, they are virtually the same truck. That said, sales are down but they are the #2 selling trucks not far off of Ford.

      1. Not at all. There was talk of shutting GMC down when Pontiac went out. GM kept Buick over Pontiac because of the Chinese market and better SUV alternatives. GMC was kept for luxury truck image alone. Chevy knew if it killed off GMC they would lose a large amount of sales to other brands. They may be made alongside each other but they market them vastly different – think Denali and commercial grade. It’s like comparing Buick to Cadillac. If GM got rid of GMC they wouldn’t keep half those buyers and they know it. I own a GMC and was not interested in the look of the Chevy and the interior in the GMC was nicer with more options available. If GM wants to use this argument then only make one brand truck – it’s how sales are measured – by brand. GM picked its poison here but to me it picked wisely because many GMC buyers look to GMC for the luxury aspect or even image.

    25. I have owned several of the newer GM trucks, 1/2 ton and the HD’s. I havent had one single issue with any of them and wouldnt own anything but. Ram people diss GM for styling, the new Dodge looks just like one did 20 years ago, the Dodge tranny is junk in light duty and heavy duties. Ram is dicounting their trucks so much they aren’t making the profits they should also. Ford keeps changing to stay on top but I personally wouldn’t drive one. I just bought a new diesel Denali after driving the new F250 diesel. Ford sells gimmicks, that tailgate step, useless when pulling a trailer. I guess its different strokes for different folks!

      1. Ram has come a long way. One tie rod end between two 4500 rams (’14 and ’15) with 100k each isn’t bad. The previous f450s went through a trans every 100k and the damn gm vans just keep going. Company owner bought some transit vans because they were the cheapest. Not like it’s a great thing, but first quarter gm made the most per vechile sold and had lowest incentive spending for this month for domestics says gm press release. June I believe is truck month for gm.

    26. Chevrolet Silverado is probably the best truck on the market some people don’t get it they trad there ford or dodge in every couple years why because they know it is about to fall apart. Google Chevrolet high mileage club and drul.thx

      1. Kind of pissed the 2014 doesn’t have as many zerk fittings as they did in my 05. But atleast it has more than my old 2000 and 2007 f150.

        1. What? The carrier bearing is bad at 62k and need to replace the $1200 driveshaft! WTF! Where is the damn recall on the FPDM? Assholes!

      2. Hey buddy, if you really wanna keep a vehicle, you maintain it and fix it. And, anything will last forever.

    27. I’m curious what the break down is for gm truck sales between the HD and the half tons​. The reason I ask is this the 1st year of the new Duramax.

    28. Got a buddy who boight a 17 duramax. Emissions light keeps coming on. Dealer tells him gm is aware of the problem nd os working on it. Apparently they haven’t got all the kinks out yet

      1. Yea I’m always Leary about buying​ first year models. Wait until they get the bugs out of them. I say.

    29. Zveira let’s not forget that Jeep maybe off,but that could be that people are waiting on the sidelines to see the Jeep JL series coming to the LA Auto show what it will look like and the powertrains offering’s. So lower sales can be attributed to just that. One might even say that some are waiting to see when Jeep will announced production of the Jeep pickup. Both these will be with new powertrains as well.As far as Ram goes it sales might have gone even stronger if it weren’t for people waiting to see what the next generation Ram 1500 will be like again with new powertrains offering better fuel and hp/tq numbers. One also might be waiting for the limited production run of the Rebel TRX which is suppose to start production soon at Warren were this generation Ram will continue to be built well into 2018 if not the whole year.Despite its aging looks it still has excellent value and performance.

      1. Yes, I agree, that FCA is set to grow in the near future ,they need just show their cards to the customers. I didn’t want to write all the conclusions at once, because some guys would not get over it easy at this forum.

    30. Just for fun, doing an estimate for # of trucks sold by the end of the year factoring growth over last year during all months with a non-linear model.
      (est. increase/decrease over 2016 : 2017 total end of year)
      Ford = 56871 : 877670
      GM combined = -45053 : 751694
      Chevy = -31025 : 543851
      RAM = 48356 : 537774

      Ram and Chevy will be VERY close for totals by the end of the year. A caveat is that I had to fudge some GM numbers because there was isolated positive growth for February and excel had difficulty with it. All R-factors are 0.97 or better.

    31. From my own personal experience I’m not shocked at the decline in GM truck sales. I am the person who is always viewing automotive forums, but never comments. However, GMs decline in what I consider an enjoyable vehicle to own and drive, hit home and is the reason I finally decided to jump brands.

      Before two years ago I was a GM only person who grew up in a GM family. My father only buys GM and my grandfather did as well.

      When I decided it was time to sell my 2003 GMC sierra, that I owned since new, I looked immediatly at a new Silverado or Sierra. I drove two 2014 silverados. One was a SLT Silverado 5.3 4×4 with the towing package and 3.73 rear end. The other was a SLE Silverado 5.3 4×4 with the 3.08 rear end. I had the SLE Silverado for a full week as a loaner, and I never hatted driving a new vehicle as much as that one. The torque management and throttle/pedal power progression was beyond annoying to the point of being dangerous at times.

      I grew up driving v8 small block and big block GM vehicles with carburetors so if I want moderate acceleration I give it moderate throttle. It seemed like the vehicle was constantly second guessing what I wanted in the trucks quest to get better gas mileage. When I am crossing a busy intersection, and am giving half throttle, I want half of what the engine can give me. Instead, if I give half throttle, the truck waits many seconds before giving power. The only way to get even close to instantaneous power is to stab the throttle all the way down, then you get way more power than you need. The truck was like this the entire week I had it, and didn’t appear to be learning anything from my driving habits.

      The SLT I had for a couple days was slightly better due to the lower rear end, but was still second guessing my pedal inputs and had that dead pedal feeling.

      GM’s big brother software has been getting worse over the years. It was present in my 2003 Sierra, it is way worse in my 2010 5.3 4×4 Tahoe, and was unbearable in the two 2014 Silverados I drove. I like fuel economy like everyone else, but not to the point of completely sacrificing driving experience. I tried finding a 6.2 in anything but the highest trim level, but that was next to impossible.

      After the horrible experience I had with the Silverados, I test drove and bought a 2015 RAM 1500 Sport 4×4 with the 5.7 and 8 speed. Pedal input/throttle response is not perfect, but it is worlds better than the Silverados. Power is much better as well. Fuel economy is about the same or slightly better than the 2003 smaller Sierra, so I’m ok with it.

      For someone that was as brand loyal as myself, it was hard to come to the realization that GM no longer made trucks that I enjoyed to drive. Enjoyed being the KEY word. Unless GM changes their course with their trucks, I may reamain a RAM truck buyer.

      Also, I never attempted to buy a Ford f150. I’m not bashing them, but being a GM guy, I just couldn’t get myself to even consider them. Sorry for the long post, but this is something I’ve had on my chest for awhile.

      1. Congrats to your decision. RAM Sport 4×4 has a nice package with Auto AWD transfer case I enjoy as well.
        I think that GM and Ford constant bashing each other in commercials works for RAM at the end and RAM has best value for the money in my opinion.

        1. Thanks zviera, I have definitely been enjoying the truck in the 22 months I have owned it. The hemi, 8 speed, and 3.92 posit rear end bring a smile to my face every time I lay into the skinny pedal.

          I live in the Rocky Mountains, so I and the wife definitely like the auto 4wd feature when the weather gets dicey in the winter.

      2. GM to Ram, ive been saying this for years with the GM throttle lag. Its like trying to drive a retarded Donkey. If it was any worse police would be pulling GM vehicles over under the suspicion of drug use while driving. Its impossible to keep your position in vehicle lineups. Even litlle 4cylinder cars jump way ahead leaving a gap for a semi to butt into your spot. I hate the new fuel management bullshit. I wish they offered the user a choice of driving modes like they use to have. Some trucks like the Tacoma and Raptor have drive modes to choose from but they are all forced to go back to normal mode everytime you park and i cant deal with that. I need to set it and forget it if they want my business.

        1. Rambro, this is a very real phenomenon. I never know how the Yukon will respond and almost drove it into an embankment yesterday because the throttle decided to kick in after all. Every time I get in that thing I ask myself why? Why did I pay this much? Why did I buy it? Why am I still driving it?

          1. Unfortunately I have lost all expectations of being able to get out of my own way when driving my Tahoe. I don’t even try to make the same maneuvers that I wouldn’t hesitate to make in my Ram. I have just come to the realization that I have to drive my V8 Tahoe like I would drive a 4cyl car. Make sure there is plenty of room, because you never know when or if you are going to get that V8 power.

          2. Mooning
            Did you guys ever get a chance to take a test drive in a hemi durango? I respect your decision to wait until you can take a ride in the new expedition before you pull the trigger on your next suv. But GMtoRAM is right! That hemi will put a smile on your face every time you hit that gas petal. Even if you decide to buy something else, you”‘ll remember that test drive.

    32. What I don’t understand is why consumer reports and other magazine reviews rate Ram,Jeep Fiat The Parent company at the bottom of the list for reliability and quality yet everybody keeps on buying them doesn’t make any sense to me!
      Are are all these companies that review cars and trucks wrong? Of course I say buy what you like by all means ! But has everyone reviewed all of these cars and trucks wrong evidently they did I personally never had any luck with any fiat product like Ram, Jeep and Dodge but I’m glad everyone has and good luck to all!!!!!! I’ll stick to my Fords and GMs !!!!!!

      1. Consumer Reports doesn’t review them at all.
        Rating is based on consumers reports. It just tells you, that GM and Ford consumers are delusional and RAM’s nit-picking. Nothing else.

        1. My son’s Cherokee Trailhawk just turned a year old and we have had zero issues. Nothing wrong anywhere, not even usual new car issues. The same with my Daughter’s Mazda CX-5 (apart from 3 irritating recalls). I cannot say this for my GM cars. We had our front struts and shocks go out at 3800 miles on our Yukon XL and have had loose taillights replaced. We also have excessive vibration in the drivetrain and the throttle response is so inconsistent until it is going to get us hurt. You never know when the power is coming.

      2. I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience with their Fiat products, only my own. I have not had any more problems with my RAM that I had with my GMC Sierra. I have not even been back to the dealership with my RAM since I bought it 22 months ago. The only maintenance has been regular oil changes performed by myself.

        The reason why I decided to jump brands was not a physical quality issue with how the GM trucks were constructed. The issue lies with who the operator of the vehicle is. Its my vehicle, and I want the truck to do what I tell it, not a delayed reaction by the truck driven by a programming function in GM’s quest to achieve a higher fuel economy rating! My fuel economy should be driven by my right foot, and my choice in engine/transmission.

        Maybe I’m old fashioned, but when the vehicle is second guessing what I want, I have no use for it! And I understand that all vehicle manufacturer’s do the same thing to a certain extent, but what I experienced with the two GM trucks I drove was beyond unacceptable.

    33. Fuel saving torque curves, limited rear axle choices, start-stop technology,transmissions that downshift each and every time you just gently touch the brakes while towing downhill till the point the engine is screaming, tow haul that defaults to tow haul off each and every time you shut it off and then start up again. All these things I find annoying, as well as what you mentioned you had found with your two previous vehicles bothers me and will make a difference in what brand I will buy for my next vehicle. Call us old fashioned and proud of it. Best of luck with your ram! (Those low gears 3.92 were a great choice).

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