• 2017 Chevy HD vs. Ford Super Duty vs. Ram HD: Gold Hitch Awards Towing Review

    2017 Chevy HD v. Ford Super Duty v. Ram HD: Ike Gauntlet

    The 2017 HD contenders are: 2017 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 HD, 2017 Ford F-350 Super Duty, and the 2017 Ram 3500 HD. Which heavy duty truck is the best towing machine in the land? This is precisely the reason we run the Ike Gauntlet extreme towing test and the Gold Hitch awards. We load the trucks up with a heavy trailer (22,800 lbs in this case), and run them down and up the toughest highway we call the Ike Gauntlet. This is an 8-mile stretch of interstate I-70 with a 7% grade, 60 MPH speed limit, and a maximum elevation of 11,158 feet above sea level. Truck’s braking systems, engines, and transmission are put to the ultimate test in this review.

    Ike Gauntlet: Downhill

    The trucks must be safe and practical on the way down. This is a test of a truck’s stopping and load handling abilities. The ability to stop a heavy load on the way down is more important than pulling it up the mountain. Truck’s transmission and brakes are put to the ultimate test here.

    The measurement is simple. The trucks must maintain a safe and practical speed at or below the 60 MPH on the way down. Going westbound on I-70, we exit the tunnel at 50 MPH. The trucks are set in Tow/Haul mode and exhaust brakes enabled (if so equipped).

    The point is to remove the driver’s skill from the test. The driver is not shifting the transmission manually. (Note: all of the trucks we have tested over the last several years were equipped with an automatic transmission.) The driver allowed the truck to accelerate naturally down the hill. If the truck and trailer go over the speed limit of 60 MPH, the driver applies the brake firmly (not slamming on it) in order to bring the truck down to 50 MPH. If required, the brake application procedure is repeated until the eight miles of downhill are completed. Some trucks require one or a few brake applications. These are the trucks that have especially smart “grade shifting” algorithms in their transmissions, and all systems, including the brakes, work at their best. Some truck require ten or more brake applications. These systems require more work. The goal is to have the least number of brake applications as to overheat and wear them out. There are two runaway truck ramps on this stretch of I-70 that serve as a constant reminder of the downhill danger. We monitor transmission and engine temperatures on all runs. Some transmissions can heat up as they work hard on the way down.

    Ike Gauntlet: The Way Up

    Truck’s engine and transmission will be stressed to the maximum gaining more than 2,000 feet of elevation over just eight miles. The maximum grade of the climb is 7%. The engine will be starving for oxygen and struggling to make power at the 11,158 ft finish line. The test is to use maximum throttle input on the way up in order to maintain the 60 MPH speed limit (or the maximum speed the truck is able to maintain). The driver makes best effort to not go over the 60 MPH speed limit. This is a serious test for the driver as very slow moving semi trucks and other vehicles are obstacles to maintaining momentum and staying at or near 60 MPH.

    We reset each truck’s trip computer at the start of the test. We time each run up the mountain and record the trip MPG as reported by the trip computer.

    At the end, each truck is scored on a scale of 100 points. The truck has a maximum score of 25 points for the downhill section. The truck loses one point for each brake application on the way down. The benchmark time up the hill is 8 minutes. Every 5 seconds over the benchmark time subtracts a point from the truck’s overall score. The truck cannot gain points for going under 8 minutes. The benchmark MPG number is 6.0 MPG. Every 0.2 MPG below that, and the truck loses a point. The truck can gain points for doing better than 6.0 MPG.

    The Ike Gauntlet test is extreme and may seem unreasonable for some. It is a challenge that many truck owners and truckers/transporters must deal with on a regular basis. If a truck does well towing on the Ike Gauntlet, you know you have a solid towing machine, no matter where you live.

    2017 Heavy Duty Trucks:

    Towing a 22,800 lbs gooseneck trailer.

    Year Make Model Up (Time) Up (MPG)  Subjective (Avg) Ike Score
    2017 Chevy Silverado 3500 Crew 4×4 6.6L 10:16.99 2.8 21.5 52.5*
    2017 Ram 3500 Crew 4×4 6.7L 10:28.86 2.9 20 49*
    2017 Ford F-350 Crew 4×4 6.7L 10:31.88 2.6 17.5 44.5*

    * all final scores are adjusted 12 pts lower than stated in the video, due to an error in original calculation.

    Here are the 2016 and 2015 Ike Gauntlet towing results.

    Here is the video with all of the details.

    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    315 thoughts on “2017 Chevy HD vs. Ford Super Duty vs. Ram HD: Gold Hitch Awards Towing Review

    1. We all need to demand better trucks than these. Think a mix between a Via Motors truck/Vtrux, a diesel heavy duty PowerWagon, a military truck, and a Tesla.
      *1 5-8 thousand pound payload AND long suspension tralve IS unarguably doable. It has been done in military and even commercial industry.
      *2 Make it electric propelled
      *3 A plug-in hybrid, the kind that is supported by a diesel on board generator engine
      *4 No transmission, no linkages.
      *5 Just a diesel engine hooked to a generator, and 4 electric motors in each wheel.
      *6 Give it an electric outbound power plug
      *7 Body must be made of aluminum or magnesium or composit so it won’t rust out.
      *8 A steel frame is fine, because a heavy duty frame is thick enough to not rust for a very long long time.
      *9 All competing automakers will use the same exact interchangeable frames(although 2 width variations and maybe 5 length variations).
      *10 A full skid plate underneath that also acts as part of the frame structure.
      *11 Make it autonomous
      *12 If a part does not last 500k miles, it should be easily removable and replaced.

      Consumers must demand it. The demand must be by a majority of people.
      Consumers must not be stupid, and value tools, not toys. Be men and women,not boys and girls.
      Stop thinking inside the box.
      The engineering is not the problem, the will to do it and our unwise stupidity is the problem.
      Stop spending your life’s savings on shiny junk that just doesn’t last.
      Voters must set the auto industry free to make inexpensive quality.
      So we can afford it, build it in Timbuktu, or change America’s laws so we can build it here.

      These expensive trucks we are buying just aren’t good enough for the 21st century.

      1. True, electric motors with an unattached diesel generator (like a locomotive), is the best way to do it, and we will all be driving cars and truck like that eventually. Its just a matter of time. How soon depends on our buying habits.

        1. The Honda Accord Hybrid already is like this.
          No transmission or transaxle. Just a gas generator. Many other mainstream cars are starting to do this kind of thing like Toyota Rav4 and Highlander all wheel drive system, where the rear wheels are not connected to the engine, just electric motors. Definitely the way to go.
          Ford/GM?RAM already have heavy duty trucks with diesel generated electric propelled motors in their labs. Heck, they are easier and simpler to make. They are just milking us with the old parts until we wise up to their game.

      2. Completely agree with Jay and Rambro.
        “What a bunch of babbling. I almost agree with the first post. It’s all junk. Wait until they boost a V8. You already seen what the 2.7 and 3.5 EB gas did to the 3.0 Eco Diesel. Even the NA gas motors in the midsize destroy the diesel midsize. And we’re all arguing about junk anyways. What is built today for consumer use compared to what they are capable of building is complete shit. Batteries are another factor that will pull away from this junk. The generator will recharge the batteries on the flats and you can charge the batteries on the way down using the weight of the vehicle.”
        Yeah, why are all these dude’s so stuck on 20th century crap.
        We ought to have 1000 horsepower and 1000 pounds feet of torque EASILY from a small simple electric motor that doesn’t break down and cost thousands to fix all the time.
        When you use a diesel engine as a generator rather than it hooded to a transmission, it always revs at the optimum rpm and it does not get jerked around. So, it lasts practically forever, and is far more efficient.
        Trans-axles and transmissions should be damned to hell a decades ago!

    2. Never commented before but how much money you take from chevy to get them in #1 when the ford is faster, quieter, and more powerful? Especially when Jason is very transparent to gm loyalty…. seems unfair to give the ford last even though it performed the best simply because “with the numbers it could’ve performed better.” Also no Silverado dyno video? Especially to the ink the old superduty best out the ram last year with ease yet the new is worse? Also no factor taken into account with three ram air a mile above sea level? Seems misleading and unfair persoanlly. It is really irritating to see Nathan continually bash great ford products and be so partial towards gm/mopar. It’s just so transparent. I’m not a ford fan boy I like all trucks but your old videos were great because they seemed fair. A lot of these new videos seem to factor in things that don’t directly translate to how we use these trucks… and individual biases towards brands is ruining the quality of the videos. We want to know what’s best not who is lining your pockets. I really enjoy watching your videos when they’re fair but when they’re not it’s quite weak. Just like the off road video with the raptor and wagon…. the raptor is by far the best all around off reader, (that’s why everyone buys them and not power wagons). So why not just come out and say it instead of…. “the ford guy likes the ford, the Mopar guy likes the ram, and Andre likes whatever he brings. No one’s gonna take an 80k power wagon and beat it up when you can save 30k for something that looks better, feels better, and is better all around. Just my 2 cents. Besides all that, I’m a big fan and hope you guys keep making videos. You should do a 3.5 eb 10 speed vs the 2.7eb vs. the LTZ vs the hemi drag race. Also it would be cool to see the power wagon vs the raptor vs the Rubicon on a course meant to be competitive.

      1. Your comment does not make any sense. Sorry. We spent a lot of time to make sure this test is as fair and even as possible. We even ran all trucks on the same day!
        The 2017 HD trucks dyno video will be published soon.
        Who is Jason?

          1. Excellent video guys. Covered each trucks equipment and specs well.

            And yes Mr.Truck looked like he was in agony with the subjective score.

        1. Andre, did you all ever dyno the previous gen diesel trucks? I’d be curious to see the dyno chart for like the ’16 Duramax compared to the ’17.

          My reasoning is considering how similar the performance was between the two trucks is that the extra power could possibly be only in a few sections of the curve. I’ve always suspected this with the RAM and Ford in the past considering the Chevy would always beat them or be very close in spite of having less power on paper.

        2. Don’t let him get under your skin Andre, you guys are professionals and we love what you do in trying to give us the best unbiased articles and opinions as possible. I wish the political writers today would work as had as you guys do to be objective in your analysis.

        3. It seems fair to me ,but I believe you can be partial to manufacture also. And who isn’t? Intristing to see ford struggle with the Ike yet class leading TQ and HP 5 less to the gm.

          One thing you guys are not pointing out is how much that DSL engine cost. It is an option. I just red the gm DSL engine is like over 10 grand. Mercy sakes alive. This very expensive option. You are simply not saving anything buying a DSL.

        4. Andre I wouldn’t worry about J Rex’s comment. I think he was drunk or under the influence of drugs at the time of posting. It certainly reads that way.

      2. Are you serious??! How exactly did ” ford perform the best ” when it was the slowest up the hill and the worse mileage pulling exactly the same load?? They tow a trailer up a hill and yet you say ” these new videos seem to factor in things that don’t translate into how we use these trucks” ??? How are you suppose to use a dually ??? Maybe you need to realize that there is more to just hp and torque numbers.

        1. Because people’s feelings are hurt due to a test on trucks they’ll never buy anyways.

          I still need to watch the video, but Ford typically rides the hype train and the actual product falls short. See Ecoboost, GT350, Fusion or just about anything. Great marketing, average product.

          1. How is the GT350 disappointing? Because you are comparing it to a supercharged engine? Well then you’re an idiot. How is the EcoBoost disappointing? It destroys the 5.3 V8 from GM. Where do you come up with your crap?

            1. uh….you just did the same thing comparing a turbo engine to a N/A engine directly after saying he was an idiot for comparing an N/A engine to a supercharged one…..wow

      3. What exactly was unfair to the Ford? If anything, they gifted the Ford a point and the RAM 2 points for the downhill portion when clearly the Chevy performed much better.

        And again, they all pulled the same trailer loaded the same way and I assume on the same day and with the same driver. It doesn’t get much more fair than that.

        People need to realize those ridiculous tow ratings by RAM and especially Ford are just a number. Ford’s been doing this for years. It’s only for bragging rights. Test like these show just that.

        1. Not sure how the chevy performed much better down hill because for some reason it over braked by 10 mph and they have to address that next year for the ike. They try to maintain between 50 and 60 mph down hill. The question is, is the GM truck use the service brake to slow the truck down so much or is the exhaust brake set to aggressive.

          1. They had one brake application with the Chevy and that was it. The speed never got back to 60 mph and even slowed down to 45 mph. The Ford had 2 brake applications or 50% more and that means it did get back to 60 mph and then have to be slowed down by the brakes again to 50 mph. How is that not a better performance by the Chevy?

            1. When you are talking about 1 and 2 to use 50% better is absurd, especially when it over braked by 10 mph and they have to readjust the scoring because of it. The test is how each truck can maintain the desired speed range. It went well below it so that should be a negative mark.

            2. All I can say is wow. So now you want to deduct points from the Chevy for slowing down too much? That would be like deducting points if the truck could go faster than 60 mph up the hill.

            3. That would be called over braking. Should the GM win if it crawled at 5 mph then? They test is to maintain speed not see who can craw the slowest. Why would they want to be an obstruction on the road running the slowest? Would that not be dangerous to others on the road.

            4. No, they test brake applications. The Chevy had one. The Ford two. The Dodge had three. Because the Chevy slowed down below 50 mph has prompted them to change their procedure for next year. I suggest to brake to 55 mph from 60 instead of 50 mph.

            5. You can keep the speed between 50 to 60 downhill, just press the gas pedal a bit to upshift. Overbraking is not an issue and it’s always better, then apply brakes more often. It’s just tell you, that when loaded 30 000 lbs behind the ford, it would need to brake even more often than GM.
              Congrats to GM, I would pick the RAM anyway,because of I6 and engine bay doesn’t look like engine on the life support with all the hoses and cables crossing it randomly, if I have any needs for 1 ton.
              This test just show you,how all the trucks are close to each other and how aluminium is overrated and didn’t have any advantage in MPG or towing time.

      4. You have to keep in mind that all of these trucks perform exceptionally well. These guys really are just pointing out the differences between them. A full 1/3 of the score is subjective and your opinions may be different than theirs. You may put more or less value on any individual characteristic than what the TFL crew does. It doesn’t make them right or wrong. It is disrespectful of you to attack their integrity because they disagree with you. If you are making a purchasing decision based solely on the opinions of these guys then you are probably using the wrong criteria. Since all of these “tools” get the job done I would probably base my decision more on styling features and price than the small measurable differences in these trucks. And if I was running a business I wouldn’t get any of these. I would be looking at stripped down models.

      5. Nothing you are saying makes any sense. An $80,000 power wagon, you mean $50,000 after rebates. Ford is the most expensive truck in the test. Just because something is faster at low altitude without any weight behind doesn’t mean it will be with weight and at altitude. Not a Ford fan boy, yeah right! The power wagon has more ground clearance then a raptor any day of the week. Also power wagon has a winch and a front locker, Raptors don’t have that. The Duramax has consistently beat out Ram and Ford for a few years now. Just because a brand sells better does not make it a better product. Ford has been living this out for years.

      6. You need a tissue for those tears,ford wasn’t the fastest that day or gas mileage wasn’t the best either . All three trucks our pretty even. I normally like ram the least even there ok with the cummins

        1. Joe, I was away from a computer for the weekend. I’m surprised at the results and disappointed in the Super Duty’s performance. It seems strange how this truck performed when compared to the F-450 during the “Midnight Ike” run. In that video, it towed 30k lbs and beat the RAM towing the same 30k lbs. Yet, at a much lower weight, the RAM beats the Ford? Hmm. Doesn’t seem possible. Also strange how the Ford dually had the quickest 0-60 time during the TFL tests of these same trucks. If it is down on power, how could it win the 0-60? But congrats to the Silverado HD. It performed well in this test.

    3. I would like some more information on what the chevy did that made you guys decide on changing the braking for next year. In the youtube video i seen yesterday it braked well below 50mph on it’s own. At least thats how I took it. Does GM now apply the service brakes for grade braking?

      I would also like to understand the subjective. In the video both of you stated the Ford rode the best while towing. This applies that it seems to be the most stable and best handling with a load yet it lost 2.5 points because it was 3 seconds slower than the Ram (which i still cannot believe). But it is already getting deducted because of its time yet both of you said you rated it lower on subjective because of you were disappointed in it’s time. The GM recieved 1.5 points higher on subjective because it was faster and it already had that in the calculated score. As others said before subjective should be based on handling, comfort, vehicle dynamics etc. The braking and time is already being scored.

      I still dont like the MPG going up because you are requiring the dash readout to be absolutely accurate. We have all seen that they never are. There is always some differences between real and displayed.

      Still loved the video guys just confused on the subjective scoring

    4. Very good test. I’m not surprised that the Chevy was a bit faster, since it was about 250 lbs lighter than the other two with the a bit more horsepower. We are not talking about more than 15 seconds overall. I was personally rooting for the Ford, but you can’t argue with the results. I’m a little dubious of using the truck’s on-board fuel display as official fuel economy. How about real world unloaded fuel economy, since HD trucks always manage to duck the EPA requiement for testing due to their weight?

      1. That is the real key is there is a difference of 15 seconds between all three. Just am surprised the Ford did not do better. The super IKE the Ford seemed to do better with 30,000lbs.

        1. something happened where i could not finish. But i wanted to clarify that the Ford with 30,000lbs did not go up faster than this time but it came up to speed pretty good for the weight.

    5. Thank you guys for doing a test like this cause I use a dually for work and this is very helpful. Was leaning toward the ford for a new truck but now not so sure. I think that just goes to show that a big peak torque number might not be as good as a lower flatter torque curve.

    6. The 2016 Ike Gauntlet showed that the Chevy more than held its own against the Ram, with less HP and torque numbers- no Ford in the hunt. With the new 2017 engine mods, GM is so far out in front that the others will really have to scramble to catch up. I think the ‘X’ factor in GM’s great performance, tho, is the Allison tranny, which does a superior job of putting the power to the ground. That said- if you really want to tow 30K lbs, Ford and Ram are your only choices. If 11.5 tons(!) is all you will ever tow, GM is the clear winner.

    7. Andre,
      Was there a mechanical/electronic computer issue with the Super Duty? Perhaps something that wouldn’t normally be detected. I am just shocked it performed the way it did. It should have been almost identical numbers as the Chev or slightly better.

      1. It looked like boost was down to 20 psi. Seems rather low and i was wondering the same thing. Like it was in regen. A few years ago when the Ram did really bad they contacted Ram about it. Did anyone ask Ford if this seemed right? Heck it may be that the Ford did not perform as well as previous years.

        1. these trucks all will do a passive regen on a pull like this.The exhaust will be hot enough that all it needs is some def to keep particulate burn off

          1. It should but if the soot load is high and it needs to go through a regen (even passive) that affects overall power.

        2. We did not detect any mechanical or software fault with the Super Duty. We did run the truck twice with similar results. We reported the best numbers.


        3. I noted the 20psi of boost on the Ford gauge as well. Since I currently own a 2017 dually, and have owned several of the previous generation Ford 6.7’s, I can report that at full boost it should be pretty near 30psi. I was surprised to not see more boost.

    8. can you upload the raw video from the fords gauge camera. no reason it should of been slower than the ram

      1. Except for having good peak hp and torque numbers. Ram maybe has flatter torque over entire rpm range.

        1. No. Watch the 2017 F-450 “Midnight IKE” vs the 2016 RAM 3500 Extreme IKE…both trucks tow 30k lbs up the IKE. The 2017 F-450 was a full minute faster than the RAM. In my opinion, there is no way the Ford could be *slower* towing less but *faster* towing more when compared to the RAM. The F-450 and F-350 are extremely similar for 2017 – same rear axle, same engine, trans, etc. The F-350 dually runs 31.5″ tall tires and a 4.10 axle ratio. The F-450 runs 31.9″ tall tires and a 4.30 axle ratio. The tire size difference makes the 350 dually and 450 nearly a wash when comparing approximate rear axle gearing.

    9. Wow, I put off buying my new one-ton because I was sure the Ford’s all new platform and body and engine enhancements would trounce the competition. They had near 20 years since their last full redo.

      Today I am starting the process of having a GMC Sierra 3500 in my driveway.

      What size wheel should I get?

      What sizes wheels were used by all three trucks in this video?

      1. If you are buying a 3500 Dually, there is only one available tire size: 235x80x17. For reference, Ford F-350 duallys also only come in one size (245x75x17) and RAM duallys are the same exact size as the GM trucks (235x80x17). Ford F-450 pickups come with 225x70x19.5. BigWood, I’d recommend trying each of the heavy duty trucks personally before you spend a large amount of cash. The Duramax is a formidable engine, but it is installed in a 2014 design cab. The Ford cab (and everything else) is all new. The RAM is a 2013 design cab. Although I’m disappointed in the Super Duty’s performance with this test – and surprised (see the Midnight IKE with the Ford and RAM towing 30k lbs) – there is a lot Ford is offering which cannot currently be had in a RAM or GM truck.

        1. With an all-new interior comes all-new problems. The more gadgetry they stuff in these trucks, the more likely you are to have to take it to the dealer for a pricey out-of-warranty repair.

    10. At 19% tounge weight, 22,800 lbs is about the max ANY of the trucks can tow since payload is nearly maxed out. That is about 4700 lbs of people and tongue weight.

      Did Nathan screw up the timer again? (see Ram Power Wagon)
      Mr. Kent said it could not reach 60 on the Ford, but at 19:43, it looked to be going 60 mph at the 1 mile mark.
      Both the Ram and Chevy times were shown towards the front camera at the end. Nathan had the time shown from a different camera in his hand (21:04). It’s like he later put a frickin go-pro on his head! Also, I am pretty sure I can hear Nathan’s voice in the background while he himself is saying “Check it out. Mr. Kent…”
      Ok, I am not saying that the Ford did great since it was already down to 45 mph at the half way mark – 20:38. (then again, so were the RAM and Chevy.) I just wish Nathan would stop fat-fingering the damn timer!

      Ignoring the Redundant Subjective score (since they are always based on downhill and uphill performance), and simply giving the trucks all 20 points, The Chevy would have 63 points, the Ram 61, and the Ford 59.

      1. I actually wanted to hear more on how the Ford handled the load. That is pretty important to me. Previous Ford trucks did squat pretty good under heavy loads and this truck seemed much much better. They also said the Ram was the bounciest even with air ride and the Ford was the best riding. I wanted to hear more about ride characteristics. The fastest up hill is always the cool factor but handling and braking is one of the most important factors in heavy towing.

      2. Typical ford fans something had to be wrong , even blaming Nathan now . Tfl said they tested twice both numbers were the same basically they reported best time. So now who’s fault is it let me guess Mr trucks or maybe the milkman!!!!!!!!

      3. The F-350 dually can have a payload approaching 6,000lbs, even in the configuration that was tested. I’d be willing to bet it was at least 5,400lbs. I have a 2017 Lariat Ultimate dually with the panoramic moonroof (heaviest option) and a payload of 5,440. F-450 payload is down slightly because of a somewhat heavier curb weight and Class 3 (14k) GVWR restrictions.

    11. 15 second spread between all three over a ten minute pull which is probably the most difficult in the USA? Tie in my book, and kudos to all three. What will separate them out for me will be reliability, maintenance costs, options/comfort. The effective power numbers, stability, and braking are all close enough to be meaningless for my usage.

    12. It seemed to me that all three did great going up the hill. There was only a 16 second difference between first and last place on a 10 minute race,that’s nothing! I would however disagree with the grading of their downhill performance. Both the ram and the ford seemed to drop to 3rd gear. That slowed the trucks to a safe speed without the need to rev high. The chevy on the other hand seemed to drop 2 or more gears as soon as Kent touched the brakes and the truck began to rev high and the speed dropped lower than was necessary for a safe descent of the hill. I believe chevy’s grade shifting is too aggressive and if not detrimental to the engines longevity, annoying at the very least.

    13. Does anyone remember when Ford had TFL out a year or two ago to compare the f350 against ram 3500? In the video, theford tech that was driving the ram 3500 had to slow down because the ram was catching up to the Ford hauling the exact same trailer! Could be the reason Ford didn’t supply TFL last year with a 1 ton truck for the Ike run. If anything, the test was skewed for the ram at the end of the video, mr truck had to slow down for a red light, easily adding time to the clock. Great review TFL!

      Will TFL be having these trucks do a 100 mile mpg loop hauling a trailer?

        1. I’m with ya on the Ford fan boys , I thought us chevy guys were bad ,until now ford fan boys take the cake.

      1. No that is incorrect. The Ford was at max towing payload for the F450 that they was coming up and the Ram 3500 was at several thousand pounds less. The F450 was gaining ground until they were close to the peak of the hill when it then started slowing down. The apples to apples uphill the Ford out pulled the Ram.

        1. That’s where you are wrong, they had an f450 with more weight- plus two identical weighted trailers being hauled by an f350 & Ram 3500

          1. That is what i said, the guy that backed off the Ram was when the F450 was going by fully loaded.

            1. spoiler alert, he backed off after the 450 was passing them carrying over a ton more than the Ram.

      2. @RAM, I remember that review very well. Please don’t lie, though. That test was in Virginia, there were TWO F-450’s and one RAM. The first F-450 and the RAM had equal trailers…both trucks topping out around 36,000GCWR. The second F-450 had one more pallet, or an additional 2300lbs on it. The “test” involved the Fords chasing the RAM up the hill, and passing it. The Ford with the equal load caught the RAM and had no trouble passing it. The second, heavier Ford was able to catch the RAM, but at the steepest portion of the hill it started to slip against the RAM, and yes…the Ford employee driving the RAM did ease up to let the Ford win. I agree that was ridiculous, but remember…the RAM towing the *equal* load lost to the Ford, despite having more torque. Here is the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabbyiBSfYw

        And just for your convenience, skip forward to about 3:20 to hear the explanation about one Ford being heavier than the RAM.

    14. I feel like I’m listening to the Democrats complain about the election results all over again. When listening to all the Ford fan boys complain. I wonder if Ford tail gates still bind up and bend when on the articulation test. Andre you should try this with that new F-350 it would be very interesting.

      1. It would be! I personally wouldn’t want to spend 70k + on a truck when the frame twists so badly. Both Ram and GM can pass that test, ford…. not to sure.

        1. Ford has fixed that with the redesign. Fully boxed from front to back. Haven’t seen any comparison, but it’s probably because they are all very similar if rigidity now.

        2. I own a 15 powerstroke and use it in the woods, on many dirt roads and pull several different trailers. Have never had an issue with frame twistage affecting me at all. Just a haters issue making mountains out of nothing at all

          1. Agree. I owned 4 Super Dutys with the C-channel frame (2012, 2015, and two 2016 trucks) which were all used on fire roads to access job sites. While the frames certainly did twist over rough terrain, there never was any issues…ever. And those trucks worked very well off road.

    15. I am surprised by this result as well. My interpretation of the downhill is while all three were good chevys was too aggressive. I would much rather have to apply the brake a time or two more to keep my desired speed than have to accelerate or turn the eb off.
      Looking at your older videos when the 15 super duty f350 was tested, i may be wrong here but only around 1000lbs less but with a 3.73 ratio and much faster time so my question is what gives here?
      Also I agree that going by the trucks mpg readout is grossly inaccurate. My 15 superduty is consistently about .5mpg less than when i hand calculate it. I also agree that your scoring system is a bit weird. Maybe i just dont fully understand it but it seems to me you double penalized the Ford with your subjective score because you “thought” it qould be faster. Im not refuting your actual test results and times here just wanting some clarification. Seems like in tue video it sounded as if the Ford may have been the most confident and the quietest but then got nailed because of your original expectations. But all in all an awesome video, keep em coming guys

      1. I don’t know why people think Chevy’s exhaust brake was too aggressive. Many times these brakes are used to help slow the load to a stop. In that case, the more aggressive the better. In this instance, all you have to do is set the cruise at the desired speed and the truck applies the appropriate exhaust brake pressure for you.

        1. More aggressive the better? That’s what Ram thought until some guy had his horses get shoved to the front of the trailer.

        2. GM lets its exhaust brake rev the engine over redline, since maximum turbo braking is achieve by spinning the turbo faster. The engine is not harmed since no fuel is being burned during this process.

      2. The reality is the Chevy’s exhaust brake works best with cruise control on. In this test he hits the brake and lets the computer pick the amount of braking. If they wanted to hold 50 mph, all you do is set the cruise and the computer will do the rest.

        1. And since it was asked numerous times, Chevy’s exhaust brake/ tow-haul does NOT use service brakes.

    16. I am very die hard ford and i am very surprised by these results. Congrats to chevy and their fans, they have the bragging rights this year.

    17. I did not hear if they were using the exhaust brakes or not. This again was a very good test and as it always comes down to, it is what the person buying he truck likes. I personally don’t care how fast it pulls up the hill but if it can handle the wieght safely. Again, I really like that you do this test. Maybe you should do it for the 1/2 ton diesels too

    18. There is something up with this test. As the owner of both the Ram Cummins and Ford PSD there is zero percent chance the Ram could outrun the Ford. I love the Ram but just based on pulling ability the Ford is clearly more powerful and it’s really not even close. Something was wrong or something done wrong. I don’t know about the Chevy but the Ford being slower than the Ram, no way.

      1. It may have something with Fords elevation calibrations. Years past Ram would outrun Ford’s 6.7L at high elevations until they changed the turbo. Then it would out pull them. Maybe with this new power change the elevation calibrations or something changed and the Ram had the advantage again.

        1. On the elevation thing, maybe Ford is not interested in spinning the turbo really high at altitude for durability. The thinner air it needs to run faster to compress the air. I would be interested in lower elevation runs to see if there is a difference or maybe some clarification on that.

          1. When the 6.7 l power stroke first came out they had that issue. The finishing order at Davis dam tests was different than the Ike. I think it is related to air intake/management… I’m sure they will discuss with Ford to see what’s going on.

          2. I was thinking along these lines. My jeep CRD will cut boost by ~20% at just 6500′ so its possible the ford just cuts more once they get to higher elevation. Maybe they dont have as much overhead in their stock turbo or maybe they just tune more conservatively.

        2. Not true. The F-450 towing 30k up the IKE was quicker than the RAM towing 30k up the IKE by a full minute. Something may be up with this particular truck or test, but if TFL tested it twice, I don’t doubt the veracity of their test.

    19. Andre. I am curious do any of these pickups limit power until a certain mileage? I have a 2014 muscle car that limited power until 500 miles. Thanks.

    20. What a bunch of babbling. I almost agree with the first post. It’s all junk. Wait until they boost a V8. You already seen what the 2.7 and 3.5 EB gas did to the 3.0 Eco Diesel. Even the NA gas motors in the midsize destroy the diesel midsize. And we’re all arguing about junk anyways. What is built today for consumer use compared to what they are capable of building is complete shit. Batteries are another factor that will pull away from this junk. The generator will recharge the batteries on the flats and you can charge the batteries on the way down using the weight of the vehicle.

    21. I guess Chevy’s brand new duramax is more powerfull just like their ads say. This seems undeniable.

    22. IT’S THE RUSSIANS!!!! they hacked into the Fords ECU and detuned it… my gosh people you wont find a more realistic comparison… all props to you guys at TFL for conducting a test like this that no one else will… Only a Liberal could argue the facts… well done guys, well done.. Andre maybe next year don’t drain the oil out of the powerstroke…or put the tuner on the Duramax..

    23. My question is, how is the F450 going to tow over 30,000 lbs when it couldn’t keep 22,500lbs at 60 mph?

      These trucks are all very close and you can’t go wrong with any of them. But the poor Ford performance surprises me. And finally someone (Mr Truck) colaborates what I’ve been saying all along about the moisture control system in the GM’s and how it will perform just fine with all its air coming in from the fender intake if by chance the hood is plugged.

      1. Just another problem that air intake. The sensor goes and your engine light comes on and for what? Just going to be plugged with ice and road debris.

        I agree with the side step on the chev but it is too high some. The tailgate step is also a problem with long loads. You can’t use it. Best idea is to have the step on the side. Nissan and Toyota are the only ones to offer the optional side step that is low enough for all users and it’s on the side.

        1. The air intake sensor is still in the normal position after the filter. The new hood intake has no sensor to go wrong. It’s an open intake right from the scoop through the channels and corners to the passenger side fender where it enters the air box/filter. I’ve seen videos of the testing this thing has been through and even though you can’t 100% simulate the real world, there is nothing that can really cause problems with how the truck performs. Like Mr Truck said, if the computer senses not enough air from the scoop (from the regular air intake sensor after the filter) it simply takes air from the regular fender intake.

          1. From what I see the F450 comes with 225/70 R19.5, which is 31.9″ diameter. The F350 comes with 275/70 or 65 R18 which has a 33.2″(70) or 32″ (65) so the F450 actually has smaller tires than the F350. Granted it has larger rims, but overall the tires are smaller.

            1. The dually is different. 245/75/17 from what I have found. Fords webite also says 17″ for the dually.

            2. They are pretty close. The F350s tire is 660 Revs per mile while the F450 is 651 revs per mile. Pretty close.

          2. F-450 only comes with 225x70x19.5 tires (which are 31.9″ tall). The F-350 dually only comes with 245x75x17 tires (which are 31.5″ tall). The F-350 dually would therefore have a slight pulling advantage over the 450, except it’s best towing axle ratio available is a 4.10 while a 4.30 axle is all you can get in the 450. So in the end, the 450 would have the slight pulling advantage, but they are very close.

      2. The requirements are 45 mph at Davis Dam, I believe along with a bunch of other tests. All trucks look to be capable power wise. GM may not have put a 30k tow rating because of a failure in other tests or the simply wanted to say “Hey look everyone, we tow just as well rated at 24k lbs as the guys rated at 30k lbs.”

      3. Dpach, I’m also disappointed by the Ford’s poor showing in this test…but to answer your question, please review TFL’s test of the 2017 F-450 compared to the 2016 RAM 3500 towing 30k…and note how the Ford was a full minute quicker than the RAM, and towed the 30k load quite well. Hence the surprise at this performance.

    24. Ford lost to Chevy and the video was proof. There were no errors, biases, or anything problematic with this test. The TFL crew did an excellent job and should be commended for their hard work!

      Ford loyalists always expect Ford to win. If they don’t, they begin attacking those who conducted the test, those who drive the winning product, and make excuses as to why the Ford lost.

      As a RAM owner, I commend Chevy for winning this year’s TFL Gold Hitch Award.

      1. Not true. I’ve owned Fords my whole life. But I come to sites like this to get more empirical and subjective data to find what my next truck purchase should be. My only problems are that the competition just doesn’t have the payload that Ford now does comparatively because of the aluminum body, and RAM, I have seen the bottom end of the tailgates rust like crazy way more than any other manufacturer. My only issue with Chevy is the rear seating area is shorter than ford, and I can’t kick my left foot up on the drivers side door where “magazines” would go when driving. Stupid reason I know but it’s what I do in my Ford when driving.

    25. Wait…Chevy wins because it can only pull 22,800#s. Its competitors can pull 30k! Why doesn’t Chevy have a penalty in the subjective scores for being less capable? That’s like having a dunk contest on a 8′ goal because one player can’t jump as high. Sorry but I’ll take the Ram and Ford over the less capable Chevy anyway.

      1. And yet both the Ford and Dodge were less capable at performing this test than the “less capable” Chevy.

        I wish TFL would just load a Chevy to 30000 pounds and end the debate.

        1. I tend to agree that the Chevy can handle the load, but you know it won’t happen. The most I’ve ever towed is a 16k fifth wheel, so the ~23k works fine for me.

        2. How would that Allison 1000 series transmission hold up to that. At minimum it would need to have an Allison 2500 series. What about the rear axle durability? Sure the engine can pull it just like an old International 7.3L but what about durability? More to pulling than just going up a hill.

          1. GM and RAM dually axles are identical AAM units. I suspect the 3500 dually would pull 30k just fine, at least for the one test run, but these trucks are not owned by TFL and must be run within manufacturer limits.

        3. Do your homework. The Allison can’t handle that weight. I don’t even think Chevy’s suspension can handle it either. There’s a reason why GM doesn’t rate their trucks as high.

          1. I guess that explains why the Chevy’s almost always squat the least. And for 17 they do in fact have bigger rear axles when compared to the 16s.

            Why can’t you guys just admit it’s just a number pulled out of thin air and wrote on paper?

            1. Why can’t you realize that the Allison is not capable of towing that weight. The Allison is GM’s limiting factor on power and rated capability. Google it.

            2. When it’s J2807 certified like both Ram and Ford has it is clearly not a number pulled out of thin air. Squating the least is hardly a measure of anything. If a manufacture placed steel blocks between the frame and axle so it would never squat does that mean it could increase its rating. The engine is only part of the equation. Brakes, suspension, tires, axles, driveshaft, frame the whole package is what matters.

            3. And yet in braking, the Silverado won the test. I don’t recall any complaints with the way the truck handled the weight either. If anything, they complained more about the Dodge being “bouncy” and that was with airbags to boot.

              As far as the Allison I just don’t know. GM says they only adjusted some programming to handle the increase in power from the duramax. And GM also has the least torque management in diesel equipped trucks so I kind of doubt the power train limits the rating.

            4. You are wrong about braking based on the information given. The GM was to aggressive and posed a traffic hazard by slowing down to much while the Ram and Ford were both in good control of their speed. The service brakes were not tested, only the trucks ability to maintain speed on a downhill grade using the exhaust brake. For some reason when the GM slowed down it acted like the calibration applied the service brakes to aggressively. The results were the GM slowed down to much and did not maintain like the other 2 trucks.

            5. So going 45-48 mph down the Ike is a hazard and yet going 45 or less up the Ike is not?

              It’s clear that you like Ford’s and that’s cool. I’m a Chevy guy. But I can admit if a Chevy loses a comparison. I mean in this very test it got .1 less mpg than the Dodge. Why can’t you just acknowledge the Chevy out performed the other trucks on the down hill portion?

              And you do realize that Mr Truck could have gave the Chevy a little fuel to get back to 50 mph and the transmission would have upshifted. This would have been no different than letting off the fuel when hitting 60 mph going up.

            6. The Allison 1000 is the limiting factor. GM could switch it up to the 2500 series but Allison (like any supplier) requires a guaranteed contract for X number of transmissions and with 85-90% of owners never towing more than 22,500 lbs, GM felt they couldn’t commit to the number of transmissions needed for a contract. They could just replace it with the 2500 series but that would be expensive and overkill for the vast majority of buyers and they would still have an Allison 1000 contract to fulfill. It was just a business decision.
              The rest of the truck would be fine as the frame, suspension, axles and brakes would rate fine. I’ve seen ’14s and ’15s with performance chips running 450hp and over 900 torque towing 26-27,000 lbs with either airbags or extra leaf springs and they do it fine.

              As for the GM braking too much on this test, you have to realize the system is meant to be used with cruise control for optimal performance where it performs flawlessly. Yes in this situation. It braked too much but I’d rather brake a little too much and just compensate with some throttle than be a danger at 40-45mph uphill all the time like the Ford.

            7. Dpach, I agree with everything you said except the last line. Ford never endangered anyone going uphill. The difference in time was 15 seconds over a ten minute run. That means they were all within 2% speed of each other. Hardly dangerous if the Chevy was doing 41 mph but the Ford and Ram were doing 40.

            8. Well maybe the Allison is the limiting factor for GM not going to 30000 pound tow ratings. I did search a little but all I could find was torque limits.

              Regardless of that, for this test with these weights it was the winner.

      2. wife and I drive trucks…..I have a ford 6.7 and a chevy amax allison…..since ’15 when we travel on interstate roads, we keep an impromptu count of pickup haulers. (hot shots, travel trailers, equipment, etc.) Overall, the Cummins(Ram), and the DMax(Chevy) dominate by what we see. Ford however seems to be the service truck of choice for the cities and towns we travel to. Ford and Ram seem to be the favorite of the ranchers and farmers in SD, MT, NE, UT, WY, and also for the oil field workers. I am pulling with a ’13 6.7 Ford, and on our recent trip through MO, KY, TN, AL, GA, FL our numbers were consistent with the out west numbers. I am in the market for another truck, and was not considering Ford until I found that they now offer an engine brake. Inevitably price will enter into the mix, and the trucks I have priced out have the Chevy 4-6 thousand less than the other two brands. Just saying… When I bought my Ford, a comparable Chevy was 5k less, and it seems like that is still the case. I do think my Ford is superior to my Chevy in every area, but my DMax is older. My Dmax has been expensive with non warranty replacement of Transfer case (there should have been a bulletin) and both front wheel big units. My Ford has had no issues. The DMax is far superior in fuel milage to the Ford both pulling and running empty.

        1. I have driven all of the new ’17 brands (Ford, Chevy and Ram) and the Ford seemed to have the most power with the Chevy a close 2nd. The build quality seems to favor the Ford for durability. My wife clearly likes the Ford seats. I am leaning toward the Ram simply because of the cummins and megacab offering.

    26. The difference in times is almost negligible. 15 seconds out of 10:16 is like a 2% difference in total time. The wind direction or speed could have changed, the air temp could have changed, who knows. The chevy and ford could easily have traded places with their extremely similar torque and HP numbers.

      What I am surprised about is the Ram. What I bet that comes down too is tuning. If the ram maintains its power better at altitude by not reducing boost then it could reel in the Ford and Chevy.

    27. Thanks for the awesome comparison. I appreciate all the effort you guys at TFL and Mr. Truck put into making these as “apples to apples” comparisons as possible. Wish there was a way for the comments section to highlight, or differentiate the new comments from the prior ones.

    28. The thing that seems strange to me is in 2015 TFL rested a F350 dually up the IKE towing 21,600 lbs …truck was 440hp 860tq 3.73 rear end…result 9:44:88…so how does the 2017 F350 dually tow 22,800 (only 1200lb diff) almost a minute slower up the same hill with 440hp 925tq and a 4.10 rear end …does not make any sense at all…I’m not bashing ram or Chevy at all this is strictly a question of how could the previous truck do better with less power ?

      1. Well for one it was obviously a different day. Could have been a different time of year also. Conditions mean everything for engines for making power. And then as far as timed races, there could have been a head wind for this test or maybe there was a tailwind for that test.

        The fuel blend idea could very well factor in as well. Regardless, numbers are useless unless they are recorded on the same day, with all variables that can be controlled, controlled (same driver, same lane at a drag strip, etc.)

      2. The Ford’s performance simply does not make sense. The 2017 F-450 towing 30k outperformed the RAM towing the same load, yet this truck loses to the same RAM towing less? This particular Ford posts the quickest 0-60 time of these exact same trucks, but cannot outpull them up the hill? Very strange!

    29. TFL has had several different posts of RAM trucks testing at elevation. Good to see the least HP and TQ rated truck compete so well. I’d take the airbags over GM and fords suspension any day.

    30. Might as well use the 2015 Ford F-350 dually against the 2017 ram and Chevy it might have won up the hill

    31. The 2015 test as I spoke of previously the ford pulled the same load as the ram 21,600 ram was 385/865 4.10 rear ford beat it by over 20 seconds

    32. Here’s an idea. If we’re testing trucks to see who makes the best product, why don’t we test what they claim and then award them if they provide more capability.

      This test is useful for people looking to pull heavy loads. Instead, you awarded the least capable truck. Ram and Ford clearly deserve more points because they provide a better product capable of doing more jobs.

      Also, lets not use computer generated mileage and instead actually calculate their mileage by hand. Who knows if any of it is correct.

      Finally, tell us how it handled the weight. How much did the truck squat? Was it stable? How did it shift? How stable was it when passing or being passed? Was wind a factor? I’d also like to see how quickly it gets up to speed from a halt. That’s pretty useful when working through city traffic.

      1. I agree on most of the points you made. However the lowest rated dually should be the fasted up the IKE when it will be towing 8,000lbs less weight than the Ram and Ford. I am surprised that the Ram got points because it felt more “old school”, had the worst ride and a baseball bat of a steering wheel. And the truck the fit the driver the best, rode the best, was the quietest, had a great exhaust brake (even though all did really) scored low because the race to the top was slower than expected even though they were all within 15 seconds of each other.If this was just an article it would not be a big deal but when a manufacture is getting an award, the subjective should be more on the truck and not the performance as the performance and other already scored columns.

        1. Waw. I won’t get tired of the posts like this. It makes me chuckle all the time. Just read your comment, when ecoboost dominated up the hill time.
          Take it like a man! GM first, RAM second , Ford last.

          1. You may want to start back peddling now because of your whole brake application argument.

            1. Your post doesn’t make sense. The results are in.
              Ford is the last. There is nothing I can do for you.
              Take a pill of Trintellix.

            2. Hello Zviera,

              Please focus the discussion on the pickup trucks. We want to keep this site constructive.

              Andre – TFLtruck.com

          2. The ford fellows do enjoy anal blasting other manufacturers.
            All the trucks did great. But the justification of the trucks being 15 sec apart is funny as hell!

        2. Exactly. 15 second difference over the course of 10.5 minutes between any of the trucks could litterally have been due to one of them getting a better draft off a passing vehicle or a light tail wind. Its a drop in the bucket and is pretty meaningless in my eyes.

          Sure, everyone expected the Ford to dominate but if you go by the numbers it should be neck and neck with the chevy and any little advantage to either truck would have made the diff.

          I think the Rams good performance is a bigger deal than the Ford not beating the Chevy.

    33. I agree but I’m not worried about time as much especially if we’re talking 15 seconds over a ten minute run. I’d like to see these manufacturers be tested on what they claim. I’d gladly recognize that a truck with a slower time is superior because it pulled more weight with ease. To me, that’s an apples to apples comparison. Its pretty dumb to award a brand because the others couldn’t show their full potential.

      To the informed audience, this test makes me ask more questions. What transmission did the Ram have? The Aisin or the 68RFE. What were the engine and trans temps at the end of the run? Were any of the trucks in regen?

      I agree that I expect more because this is an award. Make it comprehensive so the manufacturers take it seriously and take pride in earning it.

      1. Look up the super IKE on youtube. They test the ram and Ford at 30,000lbs. The ram was with the Aisin transmission because it was the higher torque engine calibration.

        1. Unfortunately the Super Ike has no value here and is worth no award. I do find it interesting that the Ram and Ford have done a Super Ike test while GM has not.

          1. I enjoy the videos but the subjective is what kills me. The numbers don’t for the up hill runs. Honestly since the Chevy over braked and the Ram had the most brake applications (3) down hill they were all given a 25. But up hill they were within 15 seconds and a score was given. I will take a truck that “fits the best” “rides the best” “is the quietest” and has more capability in it. I dont understand how a truck that “feels more old school” is a good thing and should be given subjective points for that.

    34. Jesus are people really argueing over this? Really? This test proved one thing and one thing only. All of these trucks will get the job done period. 15 second difference between all three over a 10 minute tow on the most difficult stretch one can find in the country? Hats off to the big three for making remarkable machines. Thanks tfl for these great videos.

    35. Mr Truck and to a lesser extent Nathan have no idea what Subjective means in relationship to the Objective score. Using areas covered in the Objective scoring and baking them into the Subjective scores shows a lack of respect for the viewers. Stick to the Objective scoring, if there are glaring issues make comments and get on with it. I think the Ford leather must have caused Mr Truck a serious case of crotch itch.

      1. You don’t understand the definition of subjective then. The uphill time was objective, whether or not the testers think the truck pulled well over that time is subjective…an opinion, their overall feeling based on riding in the truck. The Ford time in the grand scheme was good but EVERYONE, including Ford guys were surprised it came in 3rd..My subjective conclusion is disappointment even though the time was pretty good.

    36. Dave go have a Jimmy Johns lol by the way I drive a 450 SD boost hardly goes over 20 psi open throttle at sea level even at 2500 rpm or above.

        1. You do know that English is the most ridiculous language. The pronunciation is changed even though you have identical words. Give it a try. You will see.

          1. Punctuation is your friend. Try commas and periods to separate different thoughts. Next time I might understand it.

    37. The funny thing about this argument is that I didn’t hear to many of us Chevy guys complain when Ford beat the Chevy in the 0-60 drag race. We lost, so what. However we did better with a big loud at altitude, like we have for many years. Nothing new for the Duramax and allison. GM’S frames have been more rigid for years. Ford guys remind me of Polaris guys. They assume because something sells better, it’s automatically better. Polaris and Ford are sales leaders in trucks and snomobiles/ATV’s. Being the sales leader usually means you are less likely to make improvements to your products because you don’t have to change. It’s a blatant statement, but rings true in many cases.

      1. What are you talking about? Ford has done more to change their product more than any other brand. Who’s using aluminum? Who’s using turbo chargers in smaller V-6s? Ford has taken huge risk as the sales leader to improve their products. Your analogy has no similarity to this situation.

        1. With the superduty it holds some merit. And my opinion is those “improvements” that ford did to the f150 aren’t that great.

          1. How do you come to this conclusion? Ford is making over 500 ft lb of torque with a 3.5 liter truck engine? That’s almost as much as my old 7.3 powerstoke with less then half the displacement. The 2.7 ecoboost makes the same power the old 5.4 triton with half the displacement. Going all aluminum? The 2015 f150 had more patents then any truck in history. How much more do you want them to do? Maybe make an 18 speed?

            1. The 7.3 I reffered to was had forced induction also. I owned a 5.0 f-150. I loved it.

            2. How many patents are related to actual assembly or construction or body? And stupid crap like lighting and tailgate?

              Sorry but for them being ahead, it sure feels like they are just competitive.

            1. The merit is for the superduty because it didn’t change much for damn near 20 yrs. Even this new SD is more evolution. update drivetrain and cut some cost and use the half ton cab with some added gadgets.

            2. Again no. Even the “old” Superduty continued to evolve with the powertrain. During those generations it used 3 diesels, 1 gas V-10, and 2 Gas V-8s. Did GM or Ram update their power plants that often? Also look at Ford’s continual updates to transmissions to finally reach the 6R140. Hell GM has been using the same 6.0 gas V-8 and 6.6 Duramax forever. They’re the one who could use a good update to their gas V-8.

            3. Well ford should have a good drivetrain setup for sure now. This 6.7 hopefully will stick around like the 7.3 did. There was a reason why ford did so many drivetrain changes.

            4. All these body on frames trucks use the same formula, just upgraded some old story. Just unfortunately ford got crap engines from International. The 6.8 was the way to go those what 4yrs or so. Really wouldn’t have any issue owning any of the three, other than the def tank/fill placement on one is dumb as hell. We’ll get this post to 300 soon.

        2. Dave, you are exactly right. Ford has made by far the most bold changes to there truck line up the last 6 years. Going aluminum is now something they will all be doing on the next generation of trucks.

    38. So let me get this straight…If I say I can Pull 32K lbs but cant pull 23K lbs as good as the other guys, I am still better, because I say I can tow more? What kind of sense does that Make???? If anything, the 23k lbs should have been a cake walk… I’d be willing to bet anything, that if you put 32K lbs behind the Duramax the Ford and Dodge would have lost by an even larger spread…. GM engineers designed this truck to do exactly what it did.. But hey hats off to you Ford, If you want to sell the quickest truck empty with no load, you’ve got it in the bag, Until GM offers 4:10 with the Duramax, gosh, then will you guys be crying loud then….

      1. I am willing to bet a 3.5tt Ford can tow 10k lbs better than a GM 6.0L 2500 even though it is rated to tow less. It is not just about power as several others have pointed out. Please return to the youtube comment section where you belong.

      2. Gm has the power and braking for higher towing numbers but no the longevity for it. The front suspension is what’s holding them back. It’s way better for ride but would wear out faster than a solid axle. There’s no reason gm would not go 30000 + towing to compete cause they have plenty of power.

    39. Even though the ford was slower, and not by that much to worry about, You have to consider the total package.
      It is one thing to run 8 miles, but run cross country with that same load. That too me is far more important.
      Ford’s concept of taking into account their customer and placing things for ease of use, power mirrors, TBC placement all make it a better long haul mover.
      Disclamer: I do have a 2013 DRW with the 6.7. But I have owned all three over the years.
      I think the first generation 6.7 is faster than the latest. It would be interesting to test my 2013 against this 2017 6.7 with the same load and see how fast it runs.

    40. Well, if all of you crying ford losers say, that ford is still better than GM , because it can pull more, don’t forget, that RAM can pull more too and RAM beat the Ford in this test, so RAM is the best, not a Ford by your logic. It had a better MPG, better uphill time and more points than ford.

    41. Ok I am about as unbiased as they come. I’ve been accused of being pro Ram, anti GM (when i drive a Duramax), pro Ford etc.

      I think there’s not enough emphasis on wheel brakes. Ram trucks have spongy brakes compared to the other two and I think over-relying on the exhaust brake doesn’t give you a chance to test the very necessary wheel brakes. There are many situations where the exhaust brake isn’t going to provide sufficient braking. A quick stop, it may not to anything at all. Correct me if I’m wrong, I also don’t think the scoring should have reflected so poorly on the Super Duty. I think it’s a better truck than the Ram. I think you were tougher on it purely because you were expecting a lot more of its ascension time (yes I was too). But I think a better way to score them is not against your own expectations, but how they are relative to each other. Whether they are “all-new” shouldn’t make the scoring tougher. Make it as if you haven’t driven them before. Just my honest thoughts, I love what you guys do.

        1. What is the specification that Ford uses for brake temperature? That should be easy for a so called “engineer” like yourself.

            1. But what is the specification? Everything has a spec. Ford does not use chevy brake pads or rotors. So what is Fords spec?

    42. While your at it, what is the spec for that 2013 test and what is the specification for the 2017 trucks.

    43. WOW, what are the Specifications? While your at it, did you notice the trailer brakes were hotter on the chevy? So what is the specification for the brakes on both trucks back in 2013? What are the specifications for this year, 2017? Not much of an engineer if you cant answer a simple specification question.

    44. HAHA, now i know you are not an engineer. Those are not specs. I bet you dont know what the ram numbers were. I do and I know for a fact you will not post them. If you do, you will be eating crow.

    45. HAHA, an engineer who says specs are not important. Now that if funny. So no design specs posted yet putc ram? Lets see the specs from Ford and lets see the specs from chevy. While your at it, lets see the specs from your favorite brand ram from 2013 from where you are pulling this from.

    46. Can we take a step back here and look objectively at these results? This is supposed to be a comparison of Heavy Duty diesel pickups which are designed primarily to haul and tow heavy loads, right? Can we at least agree on that?
      So how is it that the truck that is rated to tow the least, and not by some small margin, takes first place? The Chevy can only pull (according to GM spec) 75% of what the other two can yet this 7500 lb deficiency is not reflected anywhere in the ratings. The Ford gets docked subjective points because it wasn’t as fast as expected up the hill, although it was still plenty fast. Yet the Chevy loses nothing for not even coming close to the other two in the category for which it was designed- heavy hauling?
      I know that most people won’t tow 30K pounds with their 1 tons and the Chevy’s 23k pound rating is still respectable. But to completely ignore this huge discrepancy in tow ratings in a test that evaluates towing vehicles is just insane.
      I like the TFL reviews and I think the guys do a great job discussing all the pros and cons of each truck but each reader should draw their own conclusions about which truck may be best for their personal needs and not put too much weight on what TFL ranked as #1, 2 or 3. Clearly these rankings are irrelevant to the real world.

      1. I agree. Apparently common sense is not so common. This award is for entertainment purposes only.

        1. The manufactures are invited to receive the awards. Thats why I dont understand the subjective scoring. The trucks are already awarded or deducted points for it’s actual performance. But in the case of the Ford, it did everything the best except towing up hill (3 seconds behind the Ram) and it was deducted more points than the Chevy for being faster by 10 seconds. The Ram because it “felt old school” had the worst ride and was the loudest was awarded a higher score but the truck that rode the best, fitted the driver the best, the quietest which to me is subjective was scored low because expectations were not met with the speed up the hill even though they were all within 15 seconds of each other up the hill. The MPG thing has to many variables to even be relevant to me.

          1. I agree Jimmy, I don’t think the Ford deserved such an overall low score purely based on the hill climb time.

    47. Correction:

      and it was deducted more points than the Chevy was awarded for being faster by 10 seconds.

      1. Which one will you never see doing real work? That’s right…the Chevy. Go visit a construction site, oil field, rodeo, ranch, or even a campground and count the heavy duty GMs. You might make to five fingers.

        However, try counting the Fords and Rams. You might need an assistant to keep up.

        1. I almost never see Ram’s used for construction. I see far more company trucks that are Ford and Chevy.

          It’s funny actually, as the RAM is by far the cheapest to get into which is the #1 thing they look at in fleet vehicles, but they still don’t want them.

    48. Lmao no need to turn the TV on tonight. This is excellent entertainment watching Ford fanboys cry cry cry. Keep it going boys I love it!

    49. Who’s crying? I don’t own a Ford and couldn’t care less what label is on any of my cars or trucks. I’ll buy whatever brand I feel suits my needs best at the time of the purchase. But let’s get real here- doing a 1 ton truck review and ignoring the tow ratings is like having a weight lifting competition but limiting the weight that can be lifted to whatever the weakest guy can lift and then deducting points from the stronger participants for grunting too loud or having socks that don’t match their tights.

      1. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this “review”. They are testing these trucks in a manner that 80% of one ton buyers will use them. I have no use to tow anything more than 18-20k so this test is very helpful for me. If you guys should be bitching about anything it’s the fact that an “award” was issued over it. Instead I mostly hear whining and excuses about the results. But say all you want, the GM truck is the best performing truck in this test and that is important to MOST one ton buyers. Good job on the unbiased, fair test TFL.

    50. Andrea, you guys could throw data and numbers at us all day long and we’d be arguing the interpretations of those data. What really interests us is after driving these, which of these subjectively did each of you like the most???

      1. And THIS is the $64,000 question. Which truck feels the best, drives the best, makes you feel the most confident in, and which would you buy after driving them? A few seconds over numerous miles under heavy load doesn’t matter to me but which one does it the best and inspires the most confidence while being comfortable does.

      2. Duh, the video directly answers your questions and concerns. They already said they would prefer the GM truck. Are you guys on this web page reading and watching these videos and then writing these dumb questions when drunk or something?
        I’m not a GM fan, but I can understand English.
        They just said in plain English they subjectively like the GM.

        1. I can tell you I dint watch all of it but have just been reading these posts for pure entertainment purposes. And it has been entertaining.

    51. All three trucks were tested on the same day on the same stretch of highway so it would be difficult to make the test more fair. The Ford got two runs though so I am wondering if the other two trucks also got two. When the Chevy was towing was that water spray coming from the wheels on the trailer or were the trailer brakes smoking. They had to stop the Ram due to a red light and I believe they stopped the timer as well. I think it’s pretty clear that the Chevy won but to appease the Ford fan boys maybe we should have a do over.

    52. It’s kind of like getting ready for a fight, or watching a UFC fight. You know your guy is going to whip the other guy but, surprise, he loses. Well, it was luck, right? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the other guy, albeit a little weaker on film or paper, is just better than the numbers imply. All of these trucks are great trucks and will do far more than most people will ever do or should do with them. A second test may be good. Maybe the stronger Ford had something going on with it. Maybe it didn’t and it just got whipped by the others. I think everyone would like to see it done again but it is obvious there are some strong opinions here and I am just sitting back reading them as I have no dog in this fight. I defer to the towing experts…

      1. Then if the results change a little..we should test them all a third time or maybe a fourth or fifth cuz something could be wrong? Maybe we should keep testing them until there is a three way tie then we can all be happy..Everyone gets a trophy

    53. 15 seconds in 8 miles is something you will never notice in normal driving and towing. To me that makes them all the same. But now they all need to be driven for a few thousand miles over potholes and washboard gravel roads and see what they are like after that. That’s what really matters.

    54. I think most people are upset on the inconsistency and NOT that their brand lost. Here are the Ike runs for the 3500
      2014: 9:03 Ford / 9:22 Ram towing 22k# (slightly less tq for both versus today’s engine; PUTC test -shorter track).
      2015: 9:45 Ford / 10:09 Ram towing 21.6k# (slightly less tq for both versus today’s engine).
      2016: 11:23 Ford / 12:29 Ram towing 30k#
      (yes F-450, but gears not that different)
      2017: 10:29 Ford / 10:32 Ram towing 22.8k#.

      The Ram times are consistent for the weight. The Ford time was WAY too slow.

    55. The numbers are where they be. Even though a lot of us thought the Ford would have charged up harder to me that is not the point. The Ford was deducted a lot of subjective points even though they said it rode the best, was the quietest, the most comfortable. The Ram was originally going to have a lower score but since the first number was higher he decided to raise it too because the truck felt more “old school” and it rode the worst and was the loudest. If you want old school, test an old truck. These are new trucks and that is what people that buys these want. Would a 2000 F350 with a 7.3L scored the best subjective because it is really old school. The Ford already had its points deducted for the performance, then it got knocked the hardest for the “surprised it didn’t charge up harder”. It was knocked backwards more points for that than the chevy received positive points for being 10 sec quicker.

    56. Andre, is there any way the Ford dually tested was actually equipped with a 3.55 axle ratio? I realize you stated it had a 4.10 axle; perhaps the sticker Ford provided you with also stated as such…but Ford had a period of time with early 2017 Super Duty production where many of their stickers were wrong. If you still have the VIN number of the Ford dually you tested, please go to this official Ford build site: https://www.etis.ford.com/ and enter the VIN number under the “vehicle” tab. All the build data will be provided. I would just like to confirm it was a 4.10 axle. The 3.55 axle would explain why the Ford was slower up hill.

        1. Fuel economy by simply running the on-board trip computer’s calculation is hardly scientific. The 3.55 could easily net worse fuel economy on this hill if it needed to be in a lower gear in order to maintain a speed.

          1. Well if it needed to be in a lower gear then it would have higher rpm and more boost and had the fastest time. At least beat the way less powerful ram that was also heavier.

            1. That’s not the way it works. A lower gear would mean higher RPMs which would increase boost…but more boost and higher RPMs mean higher fuel consumption. Running in a lower gear means less speed…which of course increases overall time.

      1. Duh, it is not possible for a truck with 30,000 lb pulling rating to have a 3.5 rear end.
        And duh, it would have gotten better mpg if it had the 3.5 rear end, and it obviously did not get good mpg.
        Man, this really makes me worry about my safety on the public roadways, if so many truck guys have this level of intelligence.

        1. Hey Robert5, thanks for insulting me. But if you understood what we are talking about…this test did NOT tow 30k. It towed 22,800lbs, which is well within the rated towing capacity of Ford’s dually with the 3.55 axle. We are comparing it to the F-450 test, in which 30k was towed. And no, just because you have a numerically lower rear end does NOT guarantee better fuel economy while towing up a hill, since the taller rear end will need to downshift more in order to maintain speed. Lower gear, more RPM, more boost = worse fuel economy. Glad you’re not a truck guy, by your own theory.

          1. Troverman, – lots of visitors from youtube here no don’t waste your time on those mouth-breathers.

      2. RPM Calculator at 20:41 (showing 3rd)
        Ring Gear = 4:10
        Tire Height = 31.5
        MPH = 42
        Transmission Gear Ratio = 1.51 (3rd)

        RPM Calculator shows 2774 RPM, which matches what TFL showed.

    57. It really does not matter, (to me) who get’s the to top safely. It’s the entire package, I always favored the Slow Ford from the 90s-00s, and when they do when by a long shot, I really don’t care. I care for the overall quality of a truck, I once had a fast car that didn’t last as long as my other car that was one second slower. Great Video, as always.

    58. I’ve heard that Ford has reduced power in the first three gears. This would likely explain why the Super Duty was down on boost. They may have class leading torque, but what good is it if you don’t have access to it all the time?

      1. The Ford dually only reduces power in 1st gear. Single rear wheel trucks reduce power in the first three gears.

      2. i think the engineers are smart enough to use the cars acceleratormeter to see very small forward acceleration and give it full power

    59. It’s clear to me why Ford outsells their competitors. Because they have one of the most loyal followings I’ve ever seen. Their followers will defend them no matter what evidence is produced to the contrary. It’s like if their truck is not the top truck they take it personally. They don’t care about performance, only brand. Brand trumps everything else. It’s pretty hillarious! Ford guys are usually the ones that like a big rough riding lumber wagon kind of truck. Not saying the new Ford rides like a lumber wagon, because they don’t. They use to ride like crap. Ford fans are the guys that like old fashioned suspension aka straight axles and big everything. Straight axles do have their applications and I’m glad someone is still making them.

      1. Will, I think the “Ford guys” (for the most part) are basically curious why their truck had such a poor showing in light of evidence that indicates it should perform very well – the 0-60 tests with this same truck, and the F-450 test towing substantially more. I applaud the new L5P Duramax for a tremendous run, the RAM is a great looking truck with a workhorse engine…just trying to piece together why my truck did not go faster.

        1. Since all 3 trucks were within 15 seconds of each other I dont think i would say a poor showing but i was expecting it to be closer to the Chevy. My thoughts were it was going to be a battle between the Ford and Chevy for fastest up the hill.

    60. Completly disappointed by most of the comments on here questioning the tfl crew and criticizing them. The results are in. Move on. Seriously everybody on here debating what and how the three trucks should of been scored differently grow up. Tfl has been scoring them this way for years now. Don’t like it don’t watch or do the testing yourself and then post on YouTube… Wait you won’t, you’ll just complain on here all day.
      Great job on the video tfl ignore the haters.

      1. I wonder why People don’t buy that Duramax HD, consumers lean towards RAM and Ford in the HD segment.

        1. GM loses HD customers because of the IFS, because they don’t offer a 450/550 Cab & Chassis, and maybe a couple of other reasons. That may be changing – seems GM will be offering a medium duty truck again through a partnership with Navistar (how ironic).

          1. Troverman, as I have said many times I have no dog in this fight but you brought up a very valid point that needs further clarification. The Ford clearly performed very poorly compared to years past and I’m sure they didn’t make a less capable truck this year. It just seems like you and many others are curious as to why it didn’t do well. Was something wrong with this truck? It happens all the time with various product reviews. Sometimes you get a product (Apple recently had this happen) that does not perform like it has in other testing. It seems like this Ford underperformed enough to warrant questioning compared to other head to head testing and when taking into consideration its capabilities. Hopefully this post won’t invite some of the venom I have seen unnecessarily spewed here but I’m sure a lot of folks want to know if something was going on with a truck that has thus far seemed much more capable.

            1. I for one would like to see if TFL will reach out to Ford like they did a few years ago when the Ram 6.4L ran up the IKE at 30 mph. Because each truck is within 25ftlb of torque ( about a lawn mower engine) I would expect performance to be similar. However with the Ford having 440 HP I feel it should have climbed better vs the 385 HP Cummins.

            2. Jimmy Johns, I think they should reach out just to see because the Ford just didn’t show up. If Ford has nothing to say then we all know they took the year off in the HD game despite spending like crazy to push these trucks. To me based off all the tests I have seen it just seems like something is wrong with the Ford or maybe it was not geared like they claimed. If it loses it loses because all of these trucks are borderlining ridiculously capable but a clear no show type performance seems out of place in this market for any of these three trucks.

            3. Holy crap. It’s 45 mph vs 46 mph up. Gm is slower to 60 because of the nut raping torque management. Maybe a chassis dyno is in order to see what’s getting to rear wheels. Ford did change some other drivetrain components correct? Really starting to sound like you guys need tampons. And I say that with all due respect.

            4. Not sure what your issue is canoe but I’m starting to believe you are a second name for zvier. Ford and GM torque manages the same with their duallies. Ford made little changes to the drivetrain that I am aware of other than a stronger rear end ( old one was still really strong)and bumped up torque. So the numbers don’t seem to add up like some of us thought and would like to know. Last I checked canoe,this is a truck site where there is DISCUSSION! It seems like when people discuss (and in this case Ford groupies) the other loyalist come out of the rotten woodwork to start their bashing campaign like yourself. Keep that at putc canoe. With all due respect!

            5. Not really Jimmy Johns. I to am surprised the f350 wasn’t tops. But maybe they are getting a little more loss through drivetrain since change. Realistically they are closely matched. I do believe a dino test follows the theme that the ford was a little off what was expected. Again ford fans seem a touchy bunch.

            6. Maybe you can help me to understand why fan boys of other brands have a tendency to attack and make fun of others. You say Ford guys are touchy, I have noticed another trend. Since you clearly are part of that other trend you can answer the question

            7. What trend may that be? Seems like all all these vechiles are comparable. I am not bashing the truck, the truck is great, performed better than the ram. You get a feeling hurt and your mad is more my thoughts.

            8. Another thought is where the gear setup lands on the curve of the powerstroke. Maybe closer to peak going a little faster and negating the drivetrain multipler

            9. Canoe, this trend

              Really starting to sound like you guys need tampons.

              Again ford fans seem a touchy bunch.

              And I can go on and on by just using your post. It seems that the other brand fans are the ones that personally attack, like yourself. In fact I cannot recall a post from you that was on topic and not attacking.

            10. What about at 2:50? Troverman is the best. Ford fans are the worst with gm guys not far behind. I did just had a hysterectomy so I shouldn’t need tampons but some hormone therapy may be in order. Sorry you got so offended.

      2. Unfortunately you’re wrong. GM has the smallest share of the HD market because they make the least capable truck. No one takes them seriously and no one cares about 15 seconds over 8 miles of driving. They do care about a weak IFS and low payload/towing numbers.

        1. Dave, the IFS is not weak in the GM trucks. It doesn’t offer as much articulation as a straight axle in a more off road application. Seriously most people buying a truck like this are going to be highway driving 90% of the time. For highway driving IFS is great, and it is actually better. However maybe commercial applications such as oil company’s would benefit slightly by having a straight axle. When those shocks blow out more shaking will cause front suspension to self distruct. Straight axles have parts that fail too, and those parts are more expensive to replace then 2 ball joints which is what fails on the GM’s. Everything else on the GM IFS is very sturdy and rarely breaks. Shocks are most important to change out regularly on all trucks that are used off road.

    61. I need to put my 2 cents worth in. I traded in my 2015 3500 GMC for a 2017 GMC. The 2015 pulled very nice, 18K fiver. The new ’17 pulled good, until it died on the freeway, twice. Problem with regen, GM dont know how to fix it, even what is wrong with it. NOW I have a 2017 Super Duty, It pulls at least as good as the ’17 GMC. This is just this month so all fresh in my mind. GMC was a Denali trim level, nice truck, a step down from the ’15 Denali, a couple things changed to cheapen the ’17 down. the ’17 F350 is real nice, happy to not have to worry when GM will get bugs worked out if its new duramax.

      1. AND GMC front bounced like crazy in ’15 and ’17 trucks. Bilstein shocks on both. IFS to blame I think. While pulling same fifth wheel trailer. Ford rock solid.

    62. The GM Allison transmission is GREAT.
      IMO that is how the truck performs so well. Shift points are perfect every time. Ford not so much.

    63. Timothy Jewell
      How did you get out of the 2017 duramax? Lemon law, lawyer and the whole nine yards or did gm just agree to let you back out of your purchase?

    64. The GM dealer is owned by the same guy that owns the Ford dealer. I am a good cust of fords from his dealership, I lost the Tax I paid but other than that it was a wash. In house swap. Still will try to get back my tax money when all the lawsuits get going, and I believe they will.

      1. Interesting. We have a lot of 2017’s on the road already and haven’t had one back for this issue. Service dep’t says the only things they have seen is a couple one-off things like one had a faulty sensor (broke when installed), one had a vibration (ended up being separated tire). A couple were back for non-powertrain issues (both were reprogramming of the Mylink system (wireless charging wasn’t recognising phones). This is out of nearly 40 2017 Dmax’s.

        If you ever hear what the issue was, let us know.

    65. I dont mean a swap, Had to get financing so there was paper work involved but it was handled, IMO, well.

    66. I was surprised it did. That GMC had a ton of power, Rode smoother then the Ford does, Seats were a little softer, but I like the way the ford looks better.

    67. Interesting test as always …..these tests could definitely be more scientific and precise but good info overall.

      One , you are at altitude so “your results may vary” .

      Two, using the vehicles computer for fuel econ is close but not 100% accurate and not apples to apples. Come on guys….

      Three, the actual results are pretty close.

      Surprises? GM is lightest by far (even though lower less optioned model) with all steel . Fords aluminum didnt give it a big advantage….actually disadvantage in cost of repair replace manufacture etc.

      0-60 in this type of truck is not really a great measure , though fun. TOWING is what these do and the GM did it best.

    68. I wonder how computers limit engine rpm, turbos, gear selection and shifting according to driver input and the load. I’m sure they are tuned mostly for economy versus constant maximum engine output all of the time. For example, take my little 2.7 ecoboost. 0-60 time is around 6 seconds unless you go 4 high traction control off. Then it is closer to 5.5 seconds. Also, regular drive mode works better towing and hauling in some situations and load/trailer weights. So, I think your computer is one unique controlling factor versus the mindset or familiarity of the driver.

    69. Only a fanboy would claim a truck should win a competition because it has a higher manufacture assigned rating even though it performed worse while getting worse mileage.

      Ford is over hyped.

      1. No these guys at TFL don’t know how to drive a truck correctly with the weight behind them. The test is bogus.

        1. Wow. As if there is more to driving up hill than pushing the pedal down. As if it takes some kind of college degree. Life’s gonna be rough for you.

    70. Andre awesome video,some of these ford fans need to man up take it on the chin and move on..Give credit where due and quit coming up with cheesy excuses why there truck was slower than the Chevy.Dont blame Tfl crew as they are fair and do a great job..Imo

    71. This test is bogus with the weight you put behind the Ford and Ram. I understand why cause Chevy is rated so low. But the reason the ford was the slowest cause it would shift into 4th gear which it would be in lower RPM which equals less hp range. Where as the Ram and the chevy would stay in 3rd gear and would be in the higher RPM range and the so call “sweet spot” for hp for towing up a mountain. I guarantee if you put 25k-30k pounds behind the ford it would crush the Ram and obviously the chevy can’t compete cause its not rated that high.

      1. Jeff. With 25k-30k the ford would obviously jump into 3rd gear and the ram and chevy would stay in 2nd and the results would be the same. Funny how being in a extra gear with lower rpm ford still got the worse mileage.

    72. First; congratulations to Chevy for the win.
      Second; my bias, I am a Ford guy and own a 2015 F350 w/6.7 L and love it.
      Third; Ford, you got some splaning to do!
      By the numbers, the 2017 F350 is slower by 47 seconds than the 2015 F350 (10:32 vs 9:45) while towing 1,200 lbs more (22,800 for 2017 21,600 for the 2015).
      The 2017 Ram is slower by 9 seconds than the 2015 Ram towing identical weights as the Ford (22,800 in 2017 and 21,600 for the 2015).
      Either something was wrong with this particular truck, or the new Ford is slower than the 2015 model. Sorry, I haven’t read all the posts, but as noted in a prior post, something like a sub-optimal engine rpm due to transmission shifting or lack of shifting might be one possibility.
      Certainly, of more importance than the 15 second difference between these trucks is buyer preference, which includes brand loyalty. Also of importance, and something Kent mentioned in the review, the new Ford does not require a weight distributing hitch for conventional towing. I was a bit shocked to read the 2015 towing specs for my truck. Conventional tow rating for my 2015 F350 with SRW (in my configuration) and a 3.55 rear end is 14,000. But buried in the fine print, it’s only 8,500 lb if you don’t use a weight distributing hitch. I know that a gooseneck or a fifth-wheel hitch is better, but there is a lot of us (especially in the construction trades) that use a pintle hitch and pull pretty heavy weights. Something like the new hitch on the Ford might be more important to many of us than the 15 seconds. I don’t know if this is an issue on the Ram or Chevy.

        1. I was wondering the same thing.
          Where are the dyno runs?
          I watched the ford dyno run on TFL NOW but it has been removed.

    73. My issue with all of this is the subjective scoring from the judges. This test had three trucks with very similar results. Call the Ford and Ram a tie going up with the Chevy very slightly (less than 2MPH on average) faster. They were all great going downhill, with the Ford and Chevy slightly better than Ram. So…very close results all around. Yet the Chevy gets subjective scores of 22&21, Ram gets 20&20, and Ford gets 18&17. This is after Kent said the Ford had the best ride quality and handled the load the best. It seems to me the Ford was penalized simply because expectations where higher. My opinion is that the subjective score should be eliminated because there is just too much variance and this is the proof. These trucks were driven back to back to back on the same day with the same trailer, and we still have inconsistent judge scoring. Not to mention the fact that the judge scoring is typically a double penalty for something that has already been accounted for such as downhill brake applications. And it would be really nice if the TFL crew could come up with a way to manually calculate fuel mileage. I don’t think anybody trusts what the computers are saying on any of these trucks under these conditions.

    74. Now my turn I red everybody’s posts. One thing I do agree with most of you all it subjective scoring is little on the strange side. When you have Mr Kent says that it drove better than the other two and then give it less points that almost don’t seem to make no sense.

      One thing that I will comment on is how dam expensive they are. I wish that Andre would tell us how much that DSL engine option cost.

      If i bought my same exact f-250 today like I did back in 06 it would 10 grand more. Then tack on a DSL option it would be over 60 grand. That just don’t hardly give me any reason to buy a DSL.

      Over good test over all even though I’m not into DSLs.

      1. The powerstroke is an $8795.00 option
        The Duramax is an $9915.00 option
        The Cummins is an $11,395.00 option

        1. Thanks for info Jimmy Johns.
          Mercy sakes alive 11+ grand for DSL. I’d have to have my head examined to buy a 3/4 ton with a DSL.

    75. Had to have 300 comments. Have a wonderful day. For this article, each of these trucks are impressive, and very close matched. Each has their strong points, and weaker areas, but none of them are lacking in any way. Thanks to TFL Trucks for the “hard work” and entertainment.

    76. Man the Ford guys are really taking this hard! I compare Ford truck fans to Dale Jr fans. Don’t you dare say something bad about the redneck Jesus will they defend to death. Why are they not smart enough to know this test is not a tell all?

      1. I’m a ford man and I’m not taking this hard. And Dale jr is not that impressive either.

    77. I want all of the T.F.L Team to know that I personally think that you did a great job on all of the tests I personally thought that the Ford would win with all the new technology and aluminum but found out that GM had really built a great Diesel engine and I knew that the Allison HD Transmission is great! Ram grade shifting did much better this year but this is the only area where I disagree with giving everyone 25 points when the Chevy clearly won Ford did great Also with 2 brake applications and Ram with a great improvement this year with 3 it’s clear they are all very close but price doesn’t necessarily buy you the best truck sometimes and I agree with some Diesels are getting to expensive!!!!!!

    78. Nice run for the 2017 Ram 3500.This truck continues to amaze me.TFL Truck tested this truck’s performance,in towing,fuel mileage and a ATS Dyno run.The 2017 Ram Truck took 2 out of 3 categories.Despife FORD and GM redesigning much of there diesel’s Ram Cummins still’s to out perform them,even on a high attitude dyno run.Wow…

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