• Can an Old Diesel Be as Quick as a New One? Ram HD Diesel vs GMC Sierra vs Silverado Duramax Drag Race


    2018 gmc sierra hd ram 2500 diesel cummins heavy duramax

    Recently, we put three high torque HD diesel trucks, old and new, to the test in a drag race and see which diesel ranked supreme – and how much faster are the new trucks, or are they?

    What is defined as old? In this case, it’s the 2002 Chevy Silverado HD, at least when you put it up next to the brand new 2018 Ram 2500 and the GMC Sierra. The 2002 Chevy Silverado came equipped with an “original” Duramax diesel putting out 300 horsepower with 520 foot-pounds of torque, but, Andre didn’t stop there, he also installed a cold air intake and a 3-inch MBRP exhaust system allowing a little bit more airflow.

    The old Chevy is about 800 pounds lighter than Roman’s 2017 GMC Sierra HD, which puts out 910 foot-pounds of torque and 445 horsepower. The Sierra, being powered by the 6th generation Duramax, is also a 6.6-liter V8. The truck comes with a hood scoop (as Roman loves to point out). This is just a piece of what you get when you throw in the All Terrain Package, which beefs up the look of the truck.

    Nathan sported the 2018 Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel. This truck came equipped with a 6.7-liter inline-6 with 370 horsepower and 800 foot-pounds of torque. There is a beefier version of this truck, which puts out a higher torque rating, however this one is the six-speed with a lighter duty transmission.

    The results of the race favored Roman’s 2017 GMC Sierra HD with Nathan’s 2018 Ram 2500 in second, and Andre’s 2002 Chevy Silverado in third. In terms of power, the newer generation diesels have come a long way. Newer diesels undergo strict emission controls, which effects performance and reliability, however it appears all of that torque still gets the job done.


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    59 thoughts on “Can an Old Diesel Be as Quick as a New One? Ram HD Diesel vs GMC Sierra vs Silverado Duramax Drag Race

        1. Daniel, will you promise never to comment again on TFL and go back to PUTc when the Tesla semi truck goes on the market?

            1. Exactly, mr. distract from the point.

              You won’t even back up your original statement. You don’t even believe in what you are saying.

              You just want to be a jerk, and you are not interested in the truth.

              And then you all the other person the jerk, then it was you that originally strayed off the point so as to hide the fact that you were wrong.

              THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A TROLL!

            2. Rambro’s Bro – – –

              RB: “THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A TROLL!”

              It seems the definition of a “troll” is somewhat fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

              I had always thought of a “troll” as someone who literally went “trolling” (as in fishing) for an unreasonable, hostile, emotional argument, — but maybe I was wrong.

              I do not consider Daniel’s original comment (“Not if it never makes it to market! 😀”) as “trolling”, but rather just a humorous interjection….

              If you consider this trolling, where do we draw the line? (^_^)….

              ======================

            3. I guilty of trolling, sometimes I have to cast, not all fish bite when you troll, sometimes you have to do the reeling and throw in a little weekness and jig to get the larger lazy fish to go for it.

            4. Again, you miss the original point. The original point is that the Tesla tractor truck goes 0-60 in 5 seconds. It already does this, right now. Not later. The actual truck you saw roll onto stage in the reveal goes 0-60 in 5 seconds. That is a fact!

              If you can’t think straight, please don’t post.

            5. @ Hal – ” The actual truck you saw roll onto stage in the reveal goes 0-60 in 5 seconds. That is a fact!”

              Track time slip or it didn’t happen…

            6. LMFAO now I’m a jerk for using what YOU posted but just applying it to you? Are you one of thoses sad individuals that can dish it out but can’t take it? My advice is lay off the personal attacks and then maybe none will be focused on you.

              Oh and i believe the ORIGINAL article had absolutely NOTHING to do with a yet to be released truck, so it was you who started thia whole thing. NOT Daniel

            7. And THIS is how you can turn a website into PUTC. My goal was accomplished! You guys are way to gullible and easy.

            8. That wasn’t me two comments above, Daniel.

              You see, you can’t see straight, Daniel. You need help.

              Everybody knows I would not have written that, and it was a troll of some sort.

              You cannot even write you above comment correctly.

              You said “TFL”, when you meant PUTc.

              Now, Daniel, come out with it. Are you doing hard drugs? Our TFL community could help.

        2. Daniel by your philosophy no vehicle such as the Ranger, Bronco or F150 diesel should ever be talked about since they are not yet in production, only announced that they will be.

          1. Ok, let’s try it.

            “The new Ranger Raptor is going to run circles around the ZR2 and mop the floor with the Trd Pro!”

            “The new Bronco will out-Bollinger the Bollinger”

            “The F150 Diesel will outpull the ecodiesel by 193% while getting 46 mpg!”

            See, it’s pretty stupid to make assertions on products that aren’t out yet. I can’t prove them true and you can’t prove them untrue. THAT is trolling.

            Or… how about this…

            The Tesla Semi is a MAJOR FAIL! It’s WIDER, HEAVIER, and has a LONGER WHEELBASE than even the RAPTOR! HOW STUPID COULD MUSK BE??? Why oh Why didn’t he learn from Hal?

            1. Daniel your try although I dont want to discourage you from good debates is a complete fail. Practice practice practice and you will get better. Just refrain from trolling people who are correct.

              The new Ranger cannot run circles around the ZR2 or Pro by any validation as all we know is that it is going to be made, no specs were released. Unlike Tesla, Bollinger and Workhorse have released their specs so we base are information that was given and said to be here. By your philosophy the Ranger wont even make it to production, neither will the F150 with a diesel. Did they say the F150 gets 46mpg , no they did not, but Workhorse gets 75mpge, Bollinger gets 75mpge, the Tesla semi beats the Raptor and the F150 in a drag race; you see thats all true based on manufacturers claims. Now tou try it and also tell us that the Bronco and the Ranger are not coming in 2019.

            2. Rambro, I enjoy discussions with you. Manufacturers claims are nothing more than that. They can claim anything they want. Proof is in the pudding.

              My claims were absolutely bogus and that is the point. MPGe in itself is bogus. Why not rate household appliances in MPGe? It’s a calculated number based on assumptions that only play out in labs, especially the relative cost of fuel to electricity that fluctuates on a daily basis and can fluctuate wildly.

              For example, Tesla miraculously produces a million semis in 2019. The draw from those semis triple the cost of electricity and the cost of fuel is cut in half from reduced demand. Engine and electric motor efficiency stays constant, but cost per mile is turned on it’s head. That Tesla semi will now cost significantly more to run than a traditional truck

            3. Agreed Daniel that there are a lot of red flags and more to think about. I like the math and possible scenarios. Keeps me thinking but I dont think the change will be that drastic. I just want to enjoy a change before I am 6 feet under. I have driven everything the world has offered since the second milenium. I want change and I believe this change will better vehicles and it will better the air we all have to breath in. Initially when I buy a W15 or B1 electric drive truck I will see the benefits from mpge for many years before anything changes. And I am willing to pay more to drive something new. I was not willing to pay for. 1794 Tundra and suffer a greater percentage loss because I dont like any trucks today. I just bought the only option that best suits me for a reasonable cost and loss. I am excited to get into a B1 or W15 or Tesla and I am willing to lose more to be in one even if I do lose more capital at the end of the day. Its new, it has advantages, big advantages and thats why I go to work everyday; is to buy things I want. Buying a truck I dont want because nothing else exists right now that is actually worth calling a new vehicle is disapointing. I wish I only needed a car or an SUV, lot more exciting vehicles in that area.

      1. The real issue Mr. alias Hal, is that you are an arrogant jerk. If you invested some effort in correcting that, you just might succeed in making some real friends in the real world. Then you would no longer have to invest so much of your time and effort in trying to convince random visitors of a website that you are superior to all of us.

        1. The difference with all the examples you cited above is that the Tesla tractor IS out!

          It has been BUILT and REVEALED, along with its specs.

          None of those that YOU have cited have been revealed yet.

          BIG DIFFERENCE.

          A person who continues to deny the TRUTH and persist in a lie is the very definition of a JERK.

          A person who is more interested in making themselves look better than another(like you as evidenced by your last comment), is the very definition of a JERK.

          Since you are clearly more interested in you “sounding” right to your self, then in being right, and since you are more interested in just arguing for the sake of arguing while not even talking about the auto industry, then by definition, you should go to a comment section on another page that is all about arguing with people about nothing for the sake of arguing.

          You are sick, and an adult needs to step in and help you some day. Or, you can surround yourself with people who treat you like a child and skirt the important issue that you don’t want to see reality.

          Because you clearly have difficulty seeing reality, and you clearly want to blame that exact problem on others who can.

          1. By the way, if you knew who I was, you wouldn’t say I have a lack fr friends.

            And by the looks of it, you have no greater friend than I, since I am the only one in your life that is willing to take a minute to put a mirror in front of you.

            One day you will learn, that your truest friends will speak the truth, while those who are using you will just tell you what they and you want to hear.

            1. The Tesla Semi also has a Range of 500 miles under worst case scenario pulling 80,000lbs. Imagine hooking that Semi to a little 20,000lb load that these diesels max out at. This is why workhorse is succesful. 400% increase in mpg over a typical diesel step van vs their electric step van in the 20,000 kg gvwr category. Imagine when Workhorse comes out with their W25 and W35, there W15 destroys the 1500 series trucks in many categories.

            2. TFL just announced that 140 new “all electric” vehicles will be up for sale within the next 5 years.

              The expert said to be conservative, maybe 100. But more likely 140.

              Now, if 140 “all electric vehicles” vehicles will come out in 5 years, how many variants of hybrids will come out within those same 5 years?

              Logically, there are 10 times as many hybrids of some sort as full EV’s(all electric).. so, one can reasonably project that within 5 years, we will see 1400 new electrified(hybrids) vehicles

              Volkswagon(biggest automaker in the world), already put down 40 billion for this project.

              Ford just put down 4.5 billion to electrify their U.S. line of vehicles.

              All main auto makers have announced huge changes to electrified vehicles of some sort or another.

              That aint just a few designers drawing concept vehicles on the wall!

            3. You crack me up! 1400 new vehicles? Seriously? How many automobiles are approved for sale in the US? Total! I doubt it exceeds 150 yet we are going to have 1400 new ones in the next 5 years?

              You preach lay off alcohol, I think you need to lay off the unicorn farts!

        2. From what I see on here, I bet Daniel has a LOT more friends than you. This is based on seeing many of your posts and inability to debate without getting pissy/personal.
          And no all your alternate aliases do not count as friends Hal….. they have to be real. I know reality can be a confusing concept but go get some help, I’m sure you can find a doctor to hook you up with some good drugs

          1. You see, once again, Daniel cant read straight.

            TFL reports that 140 new EV’s will be made in five years, and he automatically asserts that that means 140 new EV’s will be produced in the United States.

            How do you get by from day to day, not being able to even to think straight?

            How can it be more clear that Daniel is incredibly dumb, when you see very clearly this exact example today?!

            It would not be charitable not to help him by pointing this out.

            I’m not joking.

            Brewhaha,
            You present no more evidence to the argument once again, so you are just interested in personal arguments.

            The Tesla truck does go 0-60 in 5 seconds, and that’s a fact. It uses the same motor as the Model 3, and four of them., which are totally capable of achieving that time if you know engineering.

            IF you knew who I was, you would know I don’t have a lack for friends and family. But I choose my real friends wisely. I would never choose Daniel or you to be a friend. It is easy to notice people who don’t have a good grasp on reality.

            But you all would be glad to have me on our side in a war, because otherwise, you can’t see straight.

            You can’t even see the difference between a name and an alias and a screen name on a non-registered comment section.

          2. Misery likes company.

            Its the quality of friends you have, not the number. If you were a quality human being, you would know that.

            Wow, so the self admitted drunkards are now encouraging us drug free people to take drugs?

            Sorry, that’s misery I will not be company to.

    1. I thought Andre’s truck would have been the fastest. Even though it has the least HP and TQ, he had a weight advantage and those old 6.6’s were quick. The fact that ram was faster than Andre’s was a complete shocker. I’m guessing that GM pulls some boost at high elevation because other test shows closer to sea level the new and old Duramax’s are quicker than ram by a considerable amount. And after watching this I am tempted to send Andre a good set of OEM GM brake pads too.

    2. If I was going to get an HD orientated truck for logging roads or any kind of off road work GMC did a nice job here with this truck. If I was doing mostly highway I would just change the tires and still keep this style minus the roll bar and light rail. Removing the air dam gives it a better look and makes a ton of sense.

    3. Andre would have enough money left over to buy a snowmobile, a four-wheeler, a motorcycle, and and a nice boat by not buying the latest and greatest.

    4. Nice job Andre,it would be nice if you took your 2002 up the Ike with the Big Tex 3xgn…Another idea would be if most all testing would be done in 100+ degree weather on the Ike..

    5. Nihilus. I quote you. “Andre would have enough money left over to buy a snowmobile, a four-wheeler, a motorcycle, and and a nice boat by not buying the latest and greatest”

      Ok very true but not wise. You buy all that stuff used and you will statistically live with problems and all your vehicles will suffer depreciation and toys typically come with higher interest rates. Then add insurance all all those said items and a mass amount of fuel and oil and maintenance and your time while the guy who bought the HD truck suffers very little depreciation. Remember when Roman did depreciation on his Taptor, it was 3 grand after 3 years. What is Andre’s truck worth now and what will it be worth 3 years from now with another 50k on it.

      Im telling you you are thinking wrong. Do a complete capital gain on both scenarios before making a decision like that, it cripples people for life. I know so many people who have worked their entire life and owe more than what they own. Homeless people at least dont owe anything. They just need a job and they would be further ahead than many people living in a house with 5 toys. The more you buy the worse it gets.

      1. Shane – – –

        S: “weres da ford suerduty diesel in this mile high drag race boys”

        Yeah. My thought exactly. Would have liked to see the Nissan Titan XD Diesel included too. Be fun.

        ===============

    6. Fun video. While the old truck didn’t win, it sure seemed like it held its own!

      Also, don’t know if it was intentional or not, the embedded video started at the actual drag racing for me, skipping the intro (it was embedded with a time stamp; the intro was still there to watch if desired). I personally give this a huge thumbs-up since all of that intro is in the article right above it.

      1. Colin – – –

        Yeah, I noticed that, but just stopped the video and dragged the “bar” back to “zero” to start for scratch. TFLT kind of messed this one up. It happens (^_^)…

        ==============

    7. Kind of interesting video. I like seeing the old Duramax still rumbling around.

      From my perspective, the order of “best looking” of these three trucks goes like this: RAM, old Silverado…and a distant third…the hideous GMC with the add-ons.

      Frankly, I actually like the look of the current GMC HD trucks…but all the add-on stuff looks terrible.

          1. Rambro – – –

            The upcoming Ford Ranger is not vaporware: it is indeed being developed and scheduled for production. The real issue is how successful it will be, especially in the USA, if it comes here, considering the mid-size “party” is no longer “hot”.

            Here is what I said on another post:
            “I’d like to see it [the Ranger – bk] happen, but, honestly, from a marketing point-of-view, unless this new Ranger runs on fairy dust and can climb Niagara Falls, it’s going to be “too little and too late”.

            The mid-size pickup segment is now pretty well established and “in place”. The competition** has long-term credibility (“Brand Value”) and has been refined over many years.

            Tim Cain wrote a piece on the long-term plateauing of the mid-size market just this past week. That means that Ranger sales would have to “theft” sales, stolen from others; — and that’s a hard row to hoe:

            http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/usa-midsize-pickup-truck-market-share-going-nowhere-fast/

            ———-
            ** Principally Tacoma and Colorado.
            ———-
            =====================”

            ==============================

        1. Bernie excellent article but dare I challenge it. Quoting you;

          Here are some issues raised by an actual semi driver about the new Tesla Semi:

          First issue about backing up without mirrors will depend on the cameras and their ability to keep clean, I also strongly assume if you are going to hit something, sensors will alert you, thus saving damage to the vehicle where if you had no spotter you would hit these hazards you could not see in a regular semi.

          Good point on sitting centered when you need to pass and when you need to pay tolls or pull up to border crossings ect. But if there is a vehicle beside you sensors will alert you and its the same for the opposite side, you have blind spots regardless depending on mirrors and cameras.

          As far as screens go you have to look at what causes fatigue. When I went for glasses the Dr said as I age I have to hold things further away and screens cause eye fatigue such as cell phones and computers. I said what about people who read E-books. And the eye Dr said that is a different screen and that it does not cause eye fatigue. So what does Tesla use? Will it cause eye fatigue at night?

          As for the jacknifing, I do not agree with the article you posted. He bases his subjective opinion on weight in a trailer. The wheels are all controlled independantly with electric drive. I have used just the trailer brake lever many times in a semi coming down icy hills to keep the trailer straight. Foot brake engages everything so if the trailer decides to toboggen you are screwed. Apply trailer brakes only and everything straightens out. In an emergency you only foot brake and jacknifing can occur especially on ice. With Tesla the computer can control the braking at all the wheels keeping the truck straight by reducing brake application to the tractor. I agree with Tesla that they will eliminate jacknifing.

          I believe in the future Tesla will also have trailers that talk to the tractor with their own powered motors with more batteries in the trailer itself to add even more range if needed. This will reduce payload but batteries are getting lighter.

          I think with cameras and sensors that can clean themselves from road grime, you will not need mirrors once you get used to a screen. Mirrors also cause their own problems with glare and really hurt fuel economy. Can we do without them; very plausible with the right screens and sensors in place.

          If all the truck is good for is the typical Wal Mart run as he puts it then so be it, thats 80% of the market, not bad. The other 20% can deal with the issues or buy a diesel.

          1. Rambro – – –

            Remember that you are not really quoting me, for I said none of those things. I simply drew attention to the article that raised some concerns.

            Note also that the author was Jonathan Ramsey, who claims 90,000 miles of Semi-driving experience. (No, that’s not the 4-5M miles that gets accumulated by a full-career driver with 50 years of experience, but it’s not trivial either.)

            And Jonathan obviously had much more to say, but a deferred with this comment, “I only have space here to address a few issues…”

            R: “As for the jacknifing, I do not agree with the article you posted. He bases his subjective opinion on weight in a trailer. The wheels are all controlled independantly with electric drive. I have used just the trailer brake lever many times in a semi coming down icy hills to keep the trailer straight. Foot brake engages everything so if the trailer decides to toboggen you are screwed. Apply trailer brakes only and everything straightens out. In an emergency you only foot brake and jacknifing can occur especially on ice. With Tesla the computer can control the braking at all the wheels keeping the truck straight by reducing brake application to the tractor.”

            Yeah, I too was wondering about that. Even advanced, computer-controlled, full “ABS” braking (including the trailer) with diesel-powered Semis could prevent (or inhibit) jack-knifing.

            ================

            1. I did say article. It was a good article. I have just over 3 years experience when I was driving. I did just about 500 thousand miles on mostly flat deck B-trains sometimes flat deck tandem axle straight trailers. I did haul a Van once and almost got blown over sideways going through Kansas from a tornado. I made my company pay me 2 cents more a mile or I wasnt taking the Van. Flat deck truckers especially heavy equipment haulers are a different breed and it is beneath us to haul a van. Flat deck loads are a lot more exciting. Which is another point that article should have made. How will the Tesla do with Mpge when hauling a flat deck load, I use to get all kinds of weird shit, even had a 16 foot wide load sugar bin for potatoes that was 16 feet high, 4 trucks, four sugar bins 2 escort pick up trucks for each semi and a police escort front and back through illinois watching the whole train of us get through tight spots and hold traffic back through the cities. So without the drag coefficient that is less than a Bugatti, what happens to that 500 mile range. Some of the flat deck loads I took were set back and higher than the cab so those loads all drag air big time when you dont have the perfect van type trailer behind you.

    8. Didnt they weigh Andre’s truck in a previous video and it was only like 6800 lbs or something? I would bet the GMC and Ram were well over 7000.

      1. The Real Jay S – – –

        TRJS: “Didnt they weigh Andre’s truck in a previous video and it was only like 6800 lbs or something?”

        This is a VERY good point.

        TFLT: Nest time you do a drag race, don’t just tell us just the HP and torque, tell us the weight, …. and even the Weight/HP and Weight/Torque ratios!

        Then it would be up to gear ratios and the transmission to give a victory (all else constant)…

        =====================

        1. That and 6800 lbs is not THAT heavy for a 3/4 ton truck. My F150 weighs 6200 lbs empty and that is with an ecoboost. Drop a heavy duramax in my F150 and it would probably be just as heavy.

          1. Yeah the old GMT800 trucks had a C-channel frame and the body smaller dimensions. When the GM HD trucks went to the GMT900/K2 platform, the trucks received a much heavier frame, suspension components, axles, etc. They gained weight from it.

          2. The Real Jay S and Rambro- – –

            Jay, All I want is the numbers, — and, as Rambro points, the tire size(and even type) is critically important in these drag races as well.

            The we can get a real surprise when some vehicle beast the data! (Don’t know about you, but It’s little surprise to me if you have a 7200-lb truck with 910 lbs.-ft of torque in this group!)

            ================

    9. Andre needs to get synthetic transmission fluid so he does not damage or overheat the transmission also he needs new brakes and put EBC brakes with vented and slotted rotors and truck brake pads on the truck and they are the best

    10. I’m curious how my v-10 would stack up against old Chevy.

      Fun little video. I wonder if it would be as fun to watch if all three would be electric? I doubt it.

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