• Is the Toyota Tacoma’s Sales Lead Untouchable? Midsize Pickup Truck June Sales Report


    June 2017 – midsize truck sales report

    The first half of the year is done, and the Toyota Tacoma is showing an unsurmountable sales lead in the midsize pickup truck segment. Tacoma sales improved by 4.0% over June of last year.

    The Nissan Frontier is still putting up very good numbers. The Frontier is still projected to catch up to Chevy Colorado sales by the end of the calendar year (see graph below). Chevy Colorado sales received a nice boost by the arrival of the 2017 Chevy Colorado ZR2.

    Honda Ridgeline sales continue to show strength, while the GMC Canyon numbers are still showing decreases.

    Midsize Truck Sales – June 2017

    June 2017 # June 2017/2016 YTD 2017 # YTD 2017/2016 %
    Toyota Tacoma 16,443 4.0% 94,596 -0.5%
    Chevrolet Colorado 9,631 6.4% 50,301 -1.8%
    Nissan Frontier 8,144 -0.3% 37,813 -16.0%
    Honda Ridgeline 2,730 10.4% 18,596 NEW
    GMC Canyon 2,516 -26.0% 14,888 -14.2%

    Check out the sales graph put together by Bernie Kressner. Please take note of the Toyota Tacoma sales trajectory. It is still literally off this chart. Of course, this is just an approximation. It’s very difficult to predict what will actually happen.

    2017 june midsize pickup truck sales graph
    (credit: Bernie Kressner)

    One thing is for sure, competition is a lot tougher now, than it was just a year or two ago.


    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    97 thoughts on “Is the Toyota Tacoma’s Sales Lead Untouchable? Midsize Pickup Truck June Sales Report

    1. As a truck enthusiast I would love the Tacoma to be offered with a more fun/powerful engine. If sales are anything to go by, looks like the average driver is satisfied with a more or less boring engine. The Tacoma is, in my opinion, the best looking mid-size. Maybe with the good sales, a mid-cycle refresh will add some more power. Furthermore, the Ranger will shake things up for sure. Ford really needs to make a good looking truck to take some major market shares.

      1. The Ranger a bit too late to the party to really “shake things up”. I think it will sell fairly well but I don’t see it transforming the market.

    2. I took note that over all sales are down for the yr.
      I see Chevy good sales are not translating to gmc sales. Just my opinion gmc is nicer looking truck.
      As for over all nothing really new here.

      1. I prefer the look of the Chevy myself, it looks more modern where the GMC has that old square look which some people do like. I do like the GMC has 4wd auto.

    3. Andre – – –

      What may also be interesting are these three observations/interpretations:

      1) The Tacoma “line” has begun to tip downward a bit, becoming a curve: will this continue? Is this the first evidence that the “Reign of the King” is drawing to a close? (Like that of King George on July 4th in 1776 (^_^)?)

      2) The battle between the “old” Nissan Frontier and the “new” Chevy Colorado continues unabated, with a projection of parity between the two by year’s end! (Apparently the arrival of the Colorado ZR2 did help Chevy that much…)

      3) The Honda Ridgeline is beginning to show a NEGATIVE sales slope: -18 units/month! Are truck buyers increasingly turning their backs on this pseudo-truck in favor of real ones?

      The soap opera continues. (Will Billy Joe mary Daisy Mae? Will Grandpa Fred buy a new rifle this year? Has the pond dried up too much to mess with good fishing? These are earth-shattering issues…(^_^))

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      1. CORRECTION – – –

        Point 2): “..did help Chevy…” should be changed to “…didn’t help Chevy…”

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      2. I am going to pretend I did not read your post in hopes your observations/interpretations are not contagious.(^_^) Shit?

        1. Rambro – – –

          Hey friend, relax. Take an aspirin and a nap. It was meant to be funny. Do go all serious on me now…(^_^)…

          ================

      3. I think that the ridgeline, while selling decently, is hamstrung by one thing.

        It is 79″ wide, same as the F150 before the 2011 reshape. That is fullsize territory. It is only offered in a quadcab, while the fullsize market still enjoys healthy access cab and single cab sales. It doesnt offer much in terms of MPG advantage, is less powerful then its full size bretheren, and only had a 5ft bed. They dont have any sort of midgate option ala the chevy avalanche to allow owners to carry something long without it sticking out the back. And outside of less body roll, it has no ride quality advantage over the “full size” trucks.

        Actually, why on earth is the ridgeline considered a midsize in the first place?

    4. Whats new is we see a gain for the Colorado and I bet that is due to the ZR2 and that popularity will grow and bring more buyers in. Had the ZR2 not showed us we could see lower sales over last year like what happened to the Canyon. The Canyon is down because fleets don’t buy them and because the Ridgeline is a nicer package over the Denali trim. The Ridgeline is likely steeling a lot of Canyon sales. The interior of the GM trucks are so boring compared to a Ridgline or ne Tacoma. They really need to get rid of that oval entertainment design for a dash. Refresh it with better materials design and offer better seats. The seats are worse than the Tacomas regardless that the Tacoma is lacking height adjustment; the seats themselves are better than the GM seats.

    5. Ridgelines are still hard to come by on many dealers lots. I suspect the Alabama factory is too busy building new Odysseys and may have cut production a bit on the Risgelines.

      As for the Ridgeline being a “pseudo-truck”, if it does everything a truck does, I see no problem with that. You are right, though, it is not a truck….it does so much more than just a truck.

      1. Longboat – – –

        L: “…it does so much more than just a truck.”

        It also does so much less…(^_^)…

        ======================

          1. Bed height is too low to haul or put totes under a tonneau cover. The transmission overheated on TFL from off roading and quite possibly would do worse doing work in rough country and be debilitated on rough ground in construction areas or for weekend off road camping or excursions off road and the suspension is not up to par for big potholes like a Tacoma is.

            So body clearance is poor
            Suspension is poor
            The bed height is too low especially with a Tonneau cover for keeping stuff out of the rain
            And the transmission overheats climbing hills with one person in the truck with no load? Resale won’t touch a Tacoma.

            All of this by comparison to a Tacoma, otherwise the Ridgeline if you don’t need these truck like features and can get by without them then its the perfect truck, still laden with a low HP to weight like everyone else but it has AWD which I like but too many other reasons why I wont buy it.

            1. I’m quite confident you’ve never even seen a new Ridgeline, much less driven one. You can EASILY fit 27 gallon totes in the bed of one. The transmission did NOT overheat, the VTM4 system did, which is expected in any AWD vehicle with a multiplate clutch system. It would be virtually impossible to make that happen in real world on road driving that the truck is intended for. The suspension is fine for driving on road or mild off roading. I’m not sure what magic you think the taco has, but I’ve got news for you buddy, its a joke too without putting some money into the suspension. A stock wrangler will laugh at a taco and a stock Wrangler with about $2000 will walk all over any taco short of $70K.
              Now go drive the new taco. Its not great. The engine/transmission pairing is terrible and results in a subpar driving experience.

              In the future don’t post unless you have a clue what you’re talking about.

          2. Longboat – – –

            LQ: “Such as?”
            BA: Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScX5AR5_4g

            Ridgeline is not a truck: it’s a Honda Pilot with the back end missing. Guess that makes it an SUV, — or perhaps half an SUV…

            Weaknesses: Too soft and squishy a ride (not “truck-ish”); Limited Towing; Only mini-Spare tire; Poor Off-Road Performance; No Manual transmission option; No selection of Engine Options; No Locking Differential; No bed-length choice; No Solid Frame; Only IRS; Poor RTI; Poor ground clearance (7.8″ vs 8.3″ Colorado); etc….

            If I’m going to put $36K-$40K into a midsize TRUCK, I at least want to have a TRUCK!

            ‘Nuff said….

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            1. We’ve been over a lot of this before, but some of you guys seem to have short memories.

              First off, towing. Ridgeline tows 5000lbs. Seriously, who tows more than 5000lbs regularly with a mid-size truck. I tow those weights at work and I use a 3/4-ton. If I didn’t have to do it often, I’d use a half-ton. Again, how many people tow over 5klbs with a mid-size – yes, that question bears repeating, because people don’t seriously think it through. From all reports I’ve read and heard, the G2 Ridgeline tows 4500lbs much better than most of its competitors. Oh, and no WDH needed or recommended.

              Bed – some of the best payload numbers in its class. Show me another mid-size truck WITH THE SAME OPTIONS that has better payload. It also has the biggest bed of any mid-size crew cab, plus a huge trunk (yep, you can put totes in that trunk!). You don’t have to buy a bedlliner or a toolbox un addition to your truck. One of the toughest, largest beds out there.

              Spare tire – there’s a place in the bed to bolt in a full-size spare for you nervous Nellies. The doughnut is rated for the full loaded limits of the truck.

              Bed depth – yes, it’s the shallower out there. Makes it easy to reach in from the side and get stuff. If you buy a tonneau that mounts down in the bed, you will have a tough time shoving big totes in there. Honda’s own tonneau sits on top of the rails, and many totes will slide under it. I have a bunch of 18-gallon totes, they are 16.5″ tall with the lid on, they’ll fit under the tonneau just fine.

              Off-road – Ridgeline will probably take 90% of this forums readers as far off road as they want to go. Yes, it overheated on a tough off-road hill, but then climbed it anyway, a hill that many other “trucks” have a tough time getting up, if they make it at all. The current Ridgeline needs a littke airflow over the trams for tough slow-speed technical work – rumor ia that Honda id working to address that very minor issue.

              Ridgeline is by far the best truck for snow-covered roads (up to 14″ depth), icy roads, rain-slick roads, and, oh yeah, dry roads. It’s very good on gravel and fire roads, too.

              Ground clearance – it’s 7.9″, not 7.8. Need a little more? Throw on a lift kit and taller tires. There are people running G2’s with over 10″ GC. Btw, most full-size trucks have way less than 7.9″ under their pumpkin.

              Suspension – yes, it rides like a luxury car. Remember, it also has one of the best payload capacities. I drive 1/2- and 3/4-ton trucks at work every day. If I’m going to spend $30-$40k on a truck, I don’t want to settle for a rough truck ride.

              Oh yeah, the Ridgeline also handles corners like a sport sedan.

              It’s great for hauling full sheets of plywood flat in the bed, as well as drywall. Also, landscape rock, ATVs, dirt bikes, garden tractor, gravel, lumber, etc. More to come…

            2. Regarding different engine options: Ridgeline doesn’t need them. You get top-of-the-class performance and MPG with the one powertrain. Yes, you can get the GM diesel and get 2 more MPG, but it will take you 50% longer to get to your destination, and have fun merging onto the freeway. Ridgeline has the best sorted powertrain of all the mid-size trucks, every review will tell you that. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds and better MPG than a four-cylinder Tacoma. I think since GM cranked up their GO and added their 10AT this past year, they might get 0.1mph faster 0-60. Honda may up the ante with their 10AT in the next year or so.

              Bed confifurations: yep, Honda only offers one bed size, but it is arguably the most useful size out there. Toughest construction and multiple 350lb tie-downs, huge trunk, and a gate that can open sideways for easier cargo loading/unloading. Here’s the kicker….this new Ridgeline is designed so that they can add multiple bed configurations later, if they ever start building more Ridgelines than they can sell.

              Licking differential – not needed. It sends power to the wheel that is NOT slipping, up to 100% of the rear power, which is up to 70% of the AWD delivery.

              YouTube that video of the Ridgeline in the deep mud and watch it pull through.

              Best truck in the sand. Lower tire pressure to 15psi, put it in Sand mode, and it is unstoppable.

            3. All good points Longboat and I appreciate the Honda for what it is but like I said I wont buy it. I just went up North with another rental but they stuck me with a car instead of a truck, yech, but I can tell you the suspension was better than my Tacoma and handled corners really well. It was the Chevy Cruze. Had to open the hood as I could not tell if it had the turbo because it was so small and spooled fast. It was the 1.4 turbo so I guess chevy is turbo power now. Wonder when that makes it into the truck engines like Ford. This thing was powerful, drove it hard and it got 41 mpg. But I digress the suspension caved on the big stuff and now I found myself swerving to miss the big potholes, in my Tacoma I aim for everything I can just for sport.

              The tailgate is nice but without a second support cable on that tailgate I will brake it the first year. I have had well over 500lbs on my tailgate when working plus I stand on it, so an additional 265-Lbs and I jump so the impact for e is there as well and without that cable I could not do that, likey a quad or snowmobile would buckle that tailgate on the Ridgeline. The AWD I agree it is better, big advantage 99% of the time. And its a nice interior with more room. But like I said above and especially the body clearance debilitates the truck and I no longer modify. Too wise, not that smart but wise. You get wisdom from experience and I no longer modify, thats the manufacturers job. I give them my money and they give me what I want or I dont give them my money.

            4. @Rambro, there is a photo out there somewhere floating around, with engineers testing the G1 Ridgeline. There are three Ridgelines, two of them are parked with their tailgates facing each other, and the third Ridgeline is perched on the two tailgates, up in the air. So, that’s over 2000lbs on each tailgate. With the one cable. I have never heard of anyone breaking the tailgate. I’ve heard of the cable rusting out and breaking on a few G1s after many years, but that was easily fixed with a new $15 cable and a $2 hose to keep it from happening again. All I am saying is, don’t be too quick to judge the capabilities.

            5. One more point, Bernie…the Ridgeline chassis was developed for the Ridgeline. Then the Pilot and Acura MDX were designed off of that chassis. The Pilot and the MDX debuted before the Ridgeline, because they are/were more popular vehicles and due for a refresh. That was rather unfortunate because that timeline made people readily assume the Ridgeline is a “Pilot with the back chopped off”.

              As another point if information, most of the chassis components are different between the Pilot and Ridgeline, with the Ridgeline having much beefier components. It is also linger than the Pilot. Yes, Honda shared a lot of sheet metal and interior components from the front seats forward in a cost-cutting move. Yes, that helps to make the Ridgeline feel, look and drive like a car. Because of that refinement, people wrongly assume that it doesn’t have the capability of a truck.

              Go thoroughly check one out before assuming it’s a “Pilot with a bed”. Given your comments, you’ll likely be surprised.

            6. Longboat – – –

              Thank you for your detailed response on the Ridgeline. I can just feel the enthusiasm for that vehicle oozing from your pores! (^_^). And that’s cool. I am glad you are enjoying your Ridgeline.

              We can do feature-by-feature “specs-manship” all day, — actually all week — and no doubt the Ridgeline vehicle serves nice suburban purposes.

              But there are some things I would like to note, as applied to my needs and situation and “comfort level” – – –

              1) OVERLOAD POTENTIAL. Many people buy a truck not because of what it DOES (currently, and based on nominal specs), but because of what it CAN DO, in goofy or extreme situations that get you “caught out”. I call this “OVERLOAD POTENTIAL”, even though actual load carrying is just one part of that. For example: my ’96 Ram is sprung for 1970 lbs, but when helping a friend move his woodpile, we somehow managed to get over 3000 lbs in it, NOT including us! We traveled about 40 miles on less-than-perfect roads, yet the frame had still not settled onto the bump stops: we were still “sprung”. That woodpile represented a >50% overload, — and the truck “took it” without a whimper or damage**. What is the Percent (%) Overload that could be handled by the Ridgeline? And would I risk a 50% overload with it on an extended trip? Probably not.

              2) AGING ENDURANCE. We all know that the average ownership lifetime for pickup trucks in America is about 15 years (as opposed to 11.6 for cars). And many of those trucks live in the “Salt States” of the Great Northern Rust Belt (e.g., WI, MI, NY, PA, etc). The corrosion imparted to undercarriage components, coupled with torsional stress cracking, is outrageous; and there seems little that can be done perfectly to prevent it. It does take a tough, overbuilt frame, cross members, mounts, and suspension components to survive. Yes, I know that Honda does good job in corrosion resistance with its CR-V (which I bought used for my S.O.), but a truck is a whole other matter because of stress. Again, if I am putting ~$40K into a new one, it had better last. Look at “Big Green”, “Rusty Boy”, and “Godzilla Overkill” here on this site: these trucks are ~ 25-45 years old, and I imagine that CO is not exactly free of salt either!

              3) MODIFICATION POTENTIAL. For many of us, a pickup truck is like a good Jeep: “Built rather than bought”. (Yes, I have Jeep too.) And we obviously all start by buying them. But I want the freedom and ability to raise the frame; put in a lift kit; swap out the leaf-pack; put in new shocks; weld on mounts for sway bars; install a FlowMaster muffler and K&N cold-air induction kit; etc. To some degree, a real truck is a bit like an “Erector Set” for aficionados, especially as it gets older: you never stop figuring out what to do to it, because you can! It can’t be fragile.

              4) MARKET ACCEPTANCE. If the Ridgeline were in fact the “end-all/be-all” of the pickup truck world, its sales track-record would be phenomenal, — both here and internationally. But that’s not happening, neither in this 2nd generation, nor in the 1st generation of a few years earlier. So, the 3rd observation in my comment above (July 4, 2017 at 8:20 am) still stands:
              “The Honda Ridgeline is beginning to show a NEGATIVE sales slope: -18 units/month!”.
              Does that constitute market acceptance? Will this Ridgeline even be around 15 years from now for easily accessible, inexpensive, aftermarket parts?

              —————–
              ** BTW: I do NOT recommend that anyone do that to their truck routinely!
              —————–

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            7. Longboat, anyone can hoax a photo, on top of that it will depend on where they put the load on the tailgate. Moment is what will break the tailgate and a moment is a force x a distance. If you put the tire of the Ridgeline that was parked on the other Ridgelines tailgate near the bed instead of at the end of the tailgate then your moment on the tailgate can vary considerably. 2000lb x 1 in is 2000lb-in, put 500Lbs at the end of the tailgate and 500 x 16-in is 8000Lb-in, 4 times the moment, the cable eliminates the moment as all the force goes into the cable. These are tricks they use to get away these photo shots if its even a real photo. Please source or I just suspect you were bamboozled by marketing propaganda.

              Bernie a Unibody can be made stronger than a frame big time and it is able to transfer more load uniformly to the front tires vs a frame. What makes a frame last longer is that it can take more fatigue loading. Fatigue loading is the constant bending that is obviously happening due to driving. If you can conquer fatigue loading a unibody will have superior strength, however, the other obstacle to conquer is twist. A unibody under typical construction will not like to twist unless you can stop the twist with large safety factors because people will overload their trucks as you stated and a frame will let you know sooner than later that you have to stop as you will be able to see the excessive twist before it is too late because the frame will bend in yielding and come back, however due to this bending it cannot transfer load as well to the front wheels. If twist was solved and fatigue loading was solved which is all possible then the unibody is a better choice but I am not going to buy a truck to test whether they built it right or not and end up with a huge bill or a write off, a frame is a safer bet.

            8. @Bernie,
              First off, I am not a Honda fanboy. I am as critical of the Ridgeline as any vehicle out there. However, I base my criticisms on facts, not conjecture and assumptions. I drive Fords, Chevys and Rams at work every day. I’ve owned all three in the past. One of my favorites was my ’92 Dakota. I have no fanboy biases, so am able to look at these vehicles objectively. I am not partial to Honda…but I find it intriguing when it comes to all of the mis-information being spread around concerning the Ridgeline. Probably part of my problem is that i look at a truck as a tool, and what tool will do the best job for me and provide the best overall value.

              To address your concerns…

              1) overloading: I’ve read a number of reports of guys overloading their Ridgelines, no one has reported dire consequences. You are assuming that it can’t handle much overloading, and yet you have no proof.

              2) durability: the Ridgeline has proven that in spades. Many many examples of G1 Ridgelines with over 200k miles and still rattle-free! There’s a guy over on thehulltruth that tows his 4800lb saltwater boat with his G1 practically on a weekly basis, lives on the coast in salt spray, and has over a quarter-million miles on his G1. Most G1s made are still on the road, most are still with original owners. Ive never heard of a Ridgeline rusring out or falling apart, and believe me, you would hear about it on forums.

              3) to each their own. I went through the mods phase in high school and college, got out of it after grad school. Found out how much of a hit you get on resale when you mod a vehicle. To be clear, the Ridgeline can be modded, just not to the degree of most of the other mfrs. So far, the max lift available is only two inches. Good luck to the modders, if that’s your passion.

              4)Sales: seems like we’ve covered this ad nauseum, but you cant sell what you don’t have. Most ROC members are reporting that all of the dealers in their areas have few Ridgelines available. Honda doesn’t build many to begin with (very limited plant capacity), and dealers are still quickly going through their inventory. It’s a problem most mfrs would love to have. The limited supply also keeps resale values high.

              Add to this all of the mis-information floating around regarding the web (I’d swear the UAW is behind most of the bad propaganda), and it’s difficult for some people to sort fact from fiction. Honda certainly is not helping, since they offer little in the way of advertising (because they don’t need to). Then again, there are potential buyers that shy away because they are worried what their neighbors will think. There is still an “anti-American” prejudice out there, despite the Ridgeline being one of the most American trucks currently made.

            9. @Rambro, the photo wasn’t a hoax. One if the engineers involved was the LPL (Chief Engineer) for the G1 Ridgeline, and he posted on the ROC anonymously as ‘Kodiak’.

              The tires of the Ridgeline were not on the tailgates, the bumpers were. The tires were hanging freely below the truck.

            10. I would have to see the photo Longboat and from a variafiable source. Again another trick, now that you said the bumpers were on the tailgate means the cable was doing most of the work and the side without the cable just has to hold the balancing forces, depending how the engineers placed the compression points. This is propaganda and I would bet on it. Put that weight on the corner without the cable and without the propaganda. This is what I would do or want to do and it would break. Its structural physics 101. A thin plate like a tailgate cannot hold much of a moment without that cable. Something I would break and I just know better. Again its called experience/wisdom and in this case the math, that does not add up.

            11. Rambro – – –

              R: “Bernie a Unibody can be made stronger than a frame big time and it is able to transfer more load uniformly to the front tires vs a frame. ….etc”

              Yes, very good analysis. That is my view as well. And when I see garbage trucks, dump trucks, and semi’s that are unibody, I will know that unibody has arrived (^_^)…
              Pure unibody is an optimized form of load-carry/load-transfer using essentially strengthened body members and panels, thereby having less structural redundancy than a framed vehicle, — which can ALSO use unibody designs ABOVE the frame, and typically does. It is possible to have things so “simple and perfected” (typically to save weight and cost) that functional leeway and longterm endurance are lost. The vehicle operates always close to its structural limits when new: God forbid that it ever got old!
              I had a BMW 3-series in which the windshield was part of the unibody design: how insane is that? My son had to get rid of his plastic-paneled Saturn because the unibody members rusted out, and the thing had no frame. For me, for pickups, it really has to be a framed vehicle.

              BTW: Greater load transfer to the front wheels in a long wheel-base truck will not be greatly improved by going pure unibody as opposed to going pure frame: It is the mixed structure that helps the most with that, but the effect is still small, regardless of how “stiff” the structure is. If the vehicle is considered as a perfectly non-deformable cantilevered arm with a load placed 20% of the distance from one end, what is the difference in progressive PERCENT load transfer to the other end, even if the structure had a ridiculous 10 percent deflection (which no truck frame ever would)?. A good exercise in differential mechanics… (^_^)..

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            12. Longboat – – –

              Ref: Your comment, July 5, 2017 at 6:42 am

              L: “First off, I am not a Honda fanboy.”
              B: You are indeed at least a Ridgeline fanboy. You may be suffering from a state if denial. But that’s OK. I am a Ram fanboy who has been required to attend 12-step meetings on Tuesday nights (^_^).

              1) Overloading:
              L: “You are assuming that it can’t handle much overloading, and yet you have no proof.”
              I am assuming nothing and need no proof. I am asking two simple questions: Quantitatively, what % overload can the Ridgeline handle on a prolonged road trip? Can it deal with a 50% overload?

              2) Durability:
              L: “..the Ridgeline has proven that in spades.”
              The situations you described do not match the scenarios I listed, and is anecdotal: continual winter immersion in salt-water spray and deposits, with warm-to-cold temperature cycling, under heavy loads, for many years. But yes, Honda cars and CR-V’s do well in rust prevention, but they are not stressed under load, and towing is not at all the same thing. Forums can tell you anything you want to find…

              3) Modifications:
              L: “I went through the mods phase in high school and college..”
              My modifications were functional, not fashionable. They were targeted and done to serve a specific purpose in each case. They are not a passing “phase”. Resale values can go either up or down depending on the type of mod and the needs of a potential buyer. But I typically don’t sell my trucks: I use them for a time and then give the away…

              4) Sales data:
              If Ridgeline manufacturing capacity is constant or increasing since introduction last year; and if sales were “hot” and the vehicle desirable, — then why would monthly sales numbers be DECREASING continually since March of this year? (See plot above.) Why would Honda then restrict dealer allotments artificially to limit those sales it did have in March, and forego its own financial success? This does not make sense. It makes more sense to deduce that Ridgeline’s aren’t selling as well anymore because folks are buying other trucks, pure and simple (^_^)…

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            13. Bernie the stiffer frame will not carry more load to the front tires. The frame will do the same but in a different way. I look at a tall truss vs a short truss and what you get is larger X forces in the small truss which in the beam is taken up by moment. The taller truss is able to carry shear forces further and disperse load more evenly due to low deflection. So I concede to back pedal as we really only have two points of interest, front and back tires which have to share equal loads unless deflection is interupted. However, the unibody can be made stronger but fatigue is a problem with it and because it is stiffer deceleration is much faster meaning when the truck bottoms out under load the deceleration forces are going to be huge which creates failures. Under static loads the unibody can easily be made stronger as long as it stays within its suspension limitations that absorb the deceleration forces. After the suspension bottoms out you can easily exceed the stronger unibody frame because of no deflection left vs a frame that can still yield and deflect and therefore absorb the energy better than a stiff unibody. Forces can climb exponentially against deceleration of stiff vs flexible. However, if you place static loads on the unibody vs static loads on the frame then it is very likely the frame will fail first going beyond yield into plastic failure, being permanantly bent before the unibody suddenly fractures. So yes and no to stronger but again in a vehicle due to roads that can bottom out your suspension the unibody would be at more risk to a sudden fracture due to high deceleration forces, same goes for twist. A frame will warn you that you are exceeding the limits as you will see the twist is excessive on a side hill with a tire in the air and you may be able to save it. Whereas the unibody wont give you fair warning, it will fracture or hold the load but you wont be given notice.

            14. @Bernie: nope, not a Ridgeline fanboy, and not in denial. I was going to buy a Tacoma, waited a year for the new remodel, then was thoroughly underwhelmed by it. At the same time, rumors and specs started surfacing regarding the new Ridgeline. So, I waited. Then the Ridgeline was intro’ d, along with specs. I don’t really like the look of it, looks kinda cobbled together with a softer front end. Nut in not buying a truck for looks, I’m buying it for capability. Ridgeline will do everything I need to do, and do it in comfort.

              As to your other points:
              1) % overload capability: what is the percent o reload capability of a Tacoma? Or an F150? Does any manufacturer publish this? I highly doubt it, as it opens liability doors. What you have provided is anecdotal information. I have provided the same. We are at an impasse until corporate engineers give us the true specs.

              2) durability: again, nothing but anecdotal information out there. There is a lot more info on other trucks, because there are a lot more of them out there. However, all of the info I’ve seen on the Ridgeline looks very good (I’ve seen no instances of them rusting out or breaking from being overloaded – the guy towing the heavy saltwater boat and having a quarter-million miles on the odo is a good indication).

              I grew up on a farm (dairy, beef, hogs, chickens, crops and ranchland), and we were not rich. Learned to improvise and make do with a lot of things. Fixed everything ourselves, welded implements back together, patched tires of all types (with no machine), built implements when there was no viable alternative. I also minored in physics in college. So, I have a pretty good understanding of mechanics and what construction types handle what type of loads.

              There has been a lot of conjecture and hyperbole in this comments section about how the Ridgeline is not a real truck, and is not up to the task of real work. All I am asking for is proof. I’ve seen NO proof that it can’t do real truck work. Just hyperbole and conjecture. Show me the proof, then I’ll reconsider. Overheating on a technical off-road climb is not proof that it is not a truck and cannot do truck things. Not rated for over 5000lbs J2807 towing is not proof that it is not a truck. Unibody construction and transverse engine are NOT proof that it is not a truck and cannot do truck things. Ground clearance is not proof that it is not a truck. I can show you many 3/4-ton work trucks that have less GC than the Ridgeline. All i am asking is proof. Nobody has any. Just conjecture, hyperbole and gut feelings. Oh, and experience. Well, ive got experience, too. Boatloads of it. My experience, knowledge and gut says the Ridgeline will do everything I need a truck to do.

              3) mods: my mods were for improvements, also. Things like true dual exhaust with crossover pipe, and 4v carb with delayed secondaries for improved MPG. Oh, and an MSD ignition and plugs regapped to .050″ for better mpg. Larger, wider and lighter wheels and tires for better handling and better ride with less unsprung weight. Those things were all beneficial on the older cars. With modern vehicles, you see little benefit….most of the old mods are not needed or are not legal. Most modern mods are for looks, and many of those aren’t mods, but accessories. Then there are mods that can be considered useful, such as lift kits, but even they have a lot of hidden dangers that most people don’t think about (upsetting crashworthiness, as an example). And many of those mods have bexome prohibitively expensive. Only mods I might really consider might be a programmer for better MPG or deactivating cylinder management. Accessories are a different story.

              4) Sales: bottom line is that we don’t know how many Ridgelines the Alabama plant is building and shipping each month. Honda likely makes more profit on the Pilot, and they’ve been ramping up Odyssey production due to its remodel. Acura MDX production should be moving to the Ohio plant soon, but they are still building them in Alabama. So….will Honda cut production of the Pilot, Odyssey and MDX to make more Ridgelines to get their numbers up a little so that we in the comments section can say “look, Ridgeline sales are increasing!”? What do you think makes a better business decision? Until we see a glut of Ridgelines sitting on dealers lots, dealers routinely selling below MSRP, and Honda actually advertising that there is a Ridgeline for sale, I’ll put my money on demand currently exceeding supply. Those are the economic indicators that I use.

              We should all be rooting for all of the mfrs to have success with their vehicles. It ensures the mfrs and vehicles will continue to be around and be successful and, most importantly, competition improves the breed. Hoping a ‘competing’ mfr. will have poor sales is just pure idiocy, IMHO.

          3. Inability to carry anything longer then 5″3′ without a bed extender, and much over 6.5FT is completely out the window unless you have copious amounts of belts holding the thing down.

            1. Lotsa guys are hauling 4×8 sheets of plywood, flat on the floor, overhanging the tailgate by one foot. You need ONE ratchet strap going from a tie-down, back around the plywood, and connected to the diagonal tie-down. Can’t get any easier than that, unless you have an eight-foot bed. Don’t see many of those anymore, and none in a mid-size.

            2. Also, lotsa guys carry longer dimensional lumber through the rear sliding window. If it’s longer than 12′, they usually carry it up on the roof rack and out to a hitch extender, like a canoe (yep, lotsa guys hauling canoes and kayaks on top of Ridgelines, too). If you want to go all out, several companies make bed racks for the Ridgeline for carrying commercial ladders and other long items.

        1. There is no elaboration for that post other than it has speakers in the bed and a trunk that serves as a cooler like most minivans. Does it also have stow and go seating?

        2. Rides like a luxury car, handles like a sports sedan, and still has one of the highest payload capacities for a mid-size, and even beating many half-ton trucks. Handles any kind of road conditions with ease.

          Top safety pick for trucks, most “American” pickup truck, really not a lot to not like about it. Yep, it has 0.4″ less ground clearance than a Colorado (but the cabin feels twice as big). It can “only” tow 5000lbs (comes with a hitch receiver already installed, and no need for a weight-distributing hitch). You can only fit 18-gallon totes and smaller under the tonneau cover. I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

          1. The point is that you like it and I don’t. I’m ok with that. It is not the kind of truck for me and apparently a huge percentage of other midsize buyers but for the city dweller that only occasionally goes out it is not a bad choice.

          2. Longboat many minivans can haul big payloads due to 7-8 passenger seating and gear. The metris can hold almost 1900lbs of payload. Your Odyssey is at 1210 i think, chop the back of and you have the Ridgelines payload. Still not a truck suspension and the body clearance is terrible. Ground clearance is decent but that is not the ground breaking factor. Body clearance with regards to approach and departure angles are debilitatiing along with the lack of suspension travel.

            1. @Rambro, I don’t have an Odyssey. A chopped Odyssey would be quite different from a Ridgeline. Look at all of the specs and see for yourself. AoA and DoA are different, as is GC, not to mention all of the beefier components in the Ridgeline suspension, and Odyssey does not offer AWD (yet). There are many more differences, but that should be enough to clue you in.

            2. Longboat if it wasnt for the body clearance and suspension travel I would buy a Ridgeline over a Tacoma hands down just because of the AWD advantage and its a nice interior but it still has other shortcomings, tailgate, bedheight and bed length. But I am not going to modify the Ridgeline to that extent to make it work for me.

          3. “Rides like a luxury car, handles like a sports sedan, and still has one of the highest payload capacities for a mid-size, and even beating many half-ton trucks.”

            Honda’s payload rating is pure fantasy. If you even get close to their “rating”, the suspension gets loaded up and the handling gets very unsettling. The average joe that doesn’t distribute the weight in the bed properly, is going to be in for a scare when the Ridgeline suddenly doesn’t handle the way he expects it, especially in emergency maneuvers.

      2. Is Honda holding down production of the Ridgeline to keep prices up or is total production of the Alabama plant maxed out?

    6. Sure, TFL ‘off-roaded’ the Ridgeline. But seriously folks, who’d buy a Ridgeline to go off-road in? Pretty much nobody. You buy a Tacoma Off-Road, TRD Pro, ZR2 or maybe even a Canyon All Terrain or Frontier Pro-4X. Not a Ridgeline.
      You buy a Ridgeline if you just need something for those trips to Home Depot, maybe you want to tailgate, that sort of stuff. Light duty is the key here.
      Yeah, the Ridgeline is a pretty nice truck. It’s very comfortable, goes well, has pretty decent spec and IMHO, doesn’t look half bad either. Will it beat a ZR2 up Goldmine Hill? No. Will it be a fantastic on-road daily driver with a large added dose of practicality? Most likely.
      Truck = separate cab and flat bed. Is there actually a definition of a truck meaning “separate body on frame”?
      Full disclosure: I’m in the market for a midsize truck. I don’t work for Honda or any other motor manufacturer.

    7. enjoy your time in the spotlight Tacoma. The ranger f 100 is coming .Yes the ranger that has been kicking your ass all over the globe is coming and its bringing hell with it. Enjoy your time little pig snout enjoy your time.

      1. Paul, the Ranger will most likely be a great second place midsize truck right out of the gates. I hope they build a truck up to their potential and that they bring that excellent 2.7TT. If they do they will push the market forward. If not they will always be fighting for second just like they did when they left the market the first time. I’m pulling for Ford to force the market to get better. Time will tell and they actually have to build this truck here before they get too excited.

        1. I don’t see them putting the 2.7 ecoboost in the Ranger because it’s too much for that little truck. The 2.7 in the F150 is already nuts, especially in different sport modes. It bucks the F150 like a bronco when you step on it up a steep hill. And the 2nd generation 2.7 was cranked up to have more power output.

        2. The 2.7EB will never land in the new Ranger. Maaaybe the 4 cylinder ecoboost used in the Mustang, but most definitely not the 2.7. I would prefer a powerful, naturally aspirated V6 for a Ranger simply for the reliability. The Ecoboosts have had major timing chain wear and misfiring issues since the 3.5EB was first released. The 2.7EB has had the additional issue with cracked heads and massive oil consumption.

      2. If you have to say enjoy your time in the spotlight because you did not get it right in the first time made me grin from ear to ear. I am holding back laughter. Was this sarcasm. LMAO

    8. At peak the Ranger was selling over 300,000 a year. No one expects to get back to that level, but I’m sure Ford would be thrilled to match or even get close to Tacoma sales

      1. I agree. I just want the market pushed forward. For too long manufacturers have gotten away with selling us 25 year old platforms on these midsize trucks with minimal innovation. I hope Ford comes out and smacks everyone in the nose and makes them give us better products.

      2. @Daniel
        Ford used to make massive numbers of T Model Fords, they wouldn’t sell now.
        Old US Ranger has only the name not anything else in common.

        1. Good point, Robert. The Ford crowd is feeling a bit over zealous now. I hope the truck is a good one because it will make everyone else get better too.

          1. After reading the June stats and seeing all the posts I realize how the upper white coats at Ford must feel about their sales lead in the 1/2 tons. I think all the engineers and designers at Ford that can make great Ranger are being told to not build the Ranger to outclass the 1/2 tons in any way except size. To add more acceleration performance would lose F150 sales. The white coats are interested in stealing midsize sales. How many F150 owners wish they were in a powerful midsize instead? Likely a large percentage and any percentage is a bad thing for Ford. So my answer is that the Tacoma is likely untouchable unless the ZR2 can build on off road popularity and resale then the GM twins have a small chance.

            I have more hope in Bollinger at the moment. Ranger might slightly outperform the V6 midsize trucks but it wont be by much and it will take years, maybe by 2022 to build enough steam to pass todays Tacoma but then electric will implode the entire market at that point

      1. Cowbisket, when I sold my second gen Tacoma five years after I bought it new it was as tight as it was the day I bought it.

        1. Yeah the 2nd gens were the best gens. The 3rd gens are very disappointing so far IMO. Bad paint, engine problems, ABS issues, squeaky leaf springs, rear diff whine, etc. Wish I would have just kept my 2nd gen and dealt with the rust.

      2. 89 ford f 150 ….250 thou and still gittin it done.
        79 ford f 100 with 135 thou and looks like it came from the show room.
        2004 explorer with 165 thou that’s a daily driver and looks and runs great.
        15 f 150 ecoboost..
        I raise your what too oh hell yea. lol

      1. You call this work. More like a hobby. Andres an engineer too, maybe we can swap jobs for a month. At least I will bring a Supercharged manual Tacoma with me for review. Just name a date and bring your stamp.

    9. I don’t buy these projections. Auto sales in general are very cyclical, so annualized volume forecasts need at least a rolling twelve months of actual data. Would anybody actually put money on the Frontier catching the Colorado by year-end? What were final sales for each last year?

    10. I give credit to Honda for making a different truck. Personally I prefer to have choices when truck shopping and look forward to all the new mid size trucks coming. I don’t have the deep loyalty like most here but I appreciate each truck for what it offers.

      1. Agreed. It’s different. Different is good. Having AWD is neat for on road driving, efficient engine, honda reliability, ece.

        If they had a midgate system, It’d be the only trucks I’d consider, since I dont go off road.

    11. As a current 2000 Dakota V8 2wd owner I find it interesting that the mid size market seems to have taken off again after being basically dead for so many years.
      My truck is a daily driver and it also tows my 6×12 enclosed trailer to the racetrack for road racing motorcycles and track days.
      Some of my opinions on each offering as I see what I might buy from each manufacturer.
      Toyota Tacoma (I’d buy a long bed sport with tech package.) Best looking of the trucks, a tough yet sporty look that appeals to many.
      I think as a daily driver it would be a good choice for me. Only thing that gives me pause is towing ability without screaming it’s guts out, although TFL test it did pull fine jus with more revs. Excellent resale value and typical Toyota reliability.
      Honda, excellent quality, probably the most rational choice for most mid size buyers. Doesn’t look much like a truck. Refined ride but probably not very exciting.
      Nothing you make an excuse to go for a drive.

      GMC/ Colorado, I personally prefer the looks of the Canyon, especially the Denali. Fits me pretty well, seems more roomy than the Tacoma but not as much as the Ridgeline. Good tow rating even without the diesel which I would not opt for in my usage.
      Downsides ? Questionable GM quality over the years although they seem to have improved greatly.
      I think when I’m ready to buy I’ll go drive them all and then make my decision, hopefully I can arrange a short tow with my trailer.
      OTOH, do I just opt for an F150 with a 2.7 ? More room and power but without the benefits of a mid size.
      I doubt Ford will put the 2.7 in the new Ranger because it would take away from their full size sales.
      I’m not fond of the current looks of the global Ranger, looks very soft, dare I say like the Ridgeline.
      It’s a good time to be a truck buyer, lots of choices to suit almost anyone’s individual needs.

      1. I concur with all you said Greg and I am jeolous of your V8 Dakota. Although I need 4×4. Dont forget Bollinger however. 20 days and they release their specs. Not sure whats coming but at least it will be different and hopefully in a good way. A lot more exciting than a copper Ram or a red stripe packaged Chevrolet or gutless wonder V6 in a midsize.

        1. Don’t be too jealous ! It’s got some good rust now and the clear coat is pretty much gone and all that is left is faded red. Still runs good though at 140K and burns no oil.
          I’ve spent very little in the way of repairs. Torque wise I’m sure the Dakota is a winner but it actually makes less power than any of the current mid sizers except the 4 cylinder Tacoma.

    12. Why is the ridgeline considered a mid size truck? It has the same width (79″) and nearly the same length (201 vs 211) and nearly the same height (70 vs 73) as the 2009 F150. Shouldnt it be classified as a full size truck?

      1. Because most midsize trucks are the same size as older fullsize trucks are. I passed a mid-90s Chevy the other day in my Tacoma and it seemed small…

    13. I dont know why I am supporting GM today Lol but as far as power goes everyone should know the GM twins are the most powerful engines and I believe they can beat the Ridgeline now. TFL showed us the exhaust upgrade for the Silverado but now GM has an exhaust upgrade for the Colorado and Canyon that brings the truck to 318HP. Good upgrade.

      1. Rambro you will be pleased to hear that someone has heard your call for four wheel steering again on trucks. ZF is testing this on the market leader, F-150.

        1. Praise the Aliens that the world, my prayers are answered LOL HOLY SHT I have only been complaining for a decade they must be getting closer to Earth.

          1. If they put the 4 wheel steering in the Raptor with a V8 I would likely buy it and go balls deep on that.

            1. The performance of the Raptor’s off road handling would go up phenomenally. Maybe even the Ranger will get it. Take a look at any spy shots for what looks like added sway arms at the rear.

          1. If Ford builds that I will be in the Platinum 3.5EB with 400HP faster than Troverman’s Mom can unbutton her overalls.

            1. Now the question will be, is it going to be option? And how expensive will it be?

    14. Just as Chevy gets ready for a new truck release Ford is going to bring a significant update for 18 in terms of looks and features (and a diesel) and will also likely drop 4 wheel steering when Chevy launches their trucks. Just like last time Ford will likely steal the show again. If they can make it work right it would reduce the turning radius like crazy.

      1. Its not just about turn radius Moondog. The article I read by Vlad really left out the safety benefits, performance enhancements and other luxury and utility benefits. All it touched on was better turn radius in tighter parking lots and the guy like CNN fake news stated it was unreliable when there is no supporting data for this. This was his own interpretation on the subject and this is fake news reporting. I called him out on it.

        Take a look at the benefits from off road enthuisiasts who add it to their off road builds. Look at the porsche website for all the performance enhancements you get from it. Look at Cadilac and Lexus websites to understand the luxury behind it. Ask an owner how much more control and added safety it adds in skid steer control. One thing no one touches on is the safety aspect behind it and that is what will sell it. Talking about better turn radius will not sell it. Very poor marketing strategy. What they need to do is show a baby in a vehicle that slides out of control and corrects itself via 4 wheel steer control where a 2 wheel steer vehicle would otherwise crash and then show the baby all snuggly and safe after. Actually and unfortunately people would tune in more if it was a puppy but thats another problem with humanity. Animals first kids second.

        But I digress, I believe you read the same article and by that you quote better turn radius and thats what will kill it again, poor marketing and bad journalism.

        1. Turning radius is a very important part of life for a truck. If you decrease it significantly it gets more city dwellers into trucks and that is a win to me. Yes, it also carries with it handling benefits that cannot and should not be devalued but the first thing the average person thinks is a tighter turning radius.

          1. True but if thats how they try to sell it than it wont do as well as it can do. There is a lot more advantages to it.

    15. Doesn’t make sense graphing the monthly sales as a trajectory to future sales. That’s predicting Tacoma will be selling around 30,000 in the month of December and Frontier and Colorado will both be selling 13,000 in December. Try graphing monthly YTD numbers to make the trend lines make any sense.

    16. well I have the 16 Colorado z71 diesel and now it has 42500 miles on it. Been good truck and really only one issue on emissions that was part and quick fix 4000 miles ago. Not a Chevy fan at all just the opposite. I am a Toyota fan and had a 09 ridgeline I bought new also and went 160k in 5 years no issues. I got the 16 Tacoma first and sold it right away due to seat comfort due to position not seat. Seats I agree are actually better than chevy. I prefer the interior also of it. I test drove the Ridgeline and would of got one but I just cannot handle the looks for me. It is like an el camino style car. Otherwise it handled great. Chevy interior is also not as tight and solid as Tacoma. Tacoma power was fine for me but agree it needs more for sure. That said I am ready to trade for an 18 model in next couple months and with what is available I will go back to Tundra which I don’t want full size at all but it is comfortable. Plus back to 15 mpg when I do 650 miles a week. Or im going to either another diesel chevy and zr2 or Gas zr2. I am looking again at Tacoma wondering if I could get used to seat if I tried and maybe it would be good then?

    17. IF Ford makes the ranger all aluminum
      it will shake the market up big time
      it will probably relegate the Colorado to last place with the Canyon after Nissan updates its Frontier.Ypupya may retain the lead but should Nissan also come out with all aluminum Toyota will be hard pressed to compete. especially if Nissan uses all of its tricks like better engines lower prices. Then those that bought Tacomas will have the rusty crusty trucks as usual

    18. No one I know would even consider a Ridgeline when buying a truck
      in reality it is a Honda accord with a poor awd system
      too expensive to be a delivery truck
      too under whelming to be an off road truck
      and that transmission over heating problem indicates that the Ridgeline has a very poor tranny engine match
      and a poor cooling system.

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