• Emissions Researchers Allege that Fiat-Chrysler 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 Pollutes Too Much [News]


    2016 ram 1500 ecodiesel emissions test epa allegations

    The researchers who first uncovered the VW Dieselgate scandal are now alleging that Fiat-Chrysler diesels may be polluting too much as well. Testing by this private group of researchers asserts that diesel engines from the automaker may be allowing more than twenty times the legal limit of pollutants into the air.

    This information comes shortly after the US Justice Department alleged that Fiat-Chrysler had been using “defeat devices” in their vehicles. However, the testing group in question, The West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions, did not actually accuse FCA of using a defeat device. They were only able to get so far as to show that the vehicles in question were polluting well over the legal limits when tested on the road, rather than on a dynamometer.

    The tests, which were done with Ram 1500 EcoDiesels and Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesels from 2014 and 2015 (valid for model years 2014-2016), showed nitrogen oxide levels at three to 20 times the limit set by U.S. clean-air rules. Daniel Carder, director of the center said, “We saw emissions results in simulated on-road cycles on chassis dynamometers that were much lower than the actual on-road results were, suggesting that the vehicle was controlled in different fashions,”

    FCA has had the chance to respond, asking for more information about how the test was conducted. FCA doesn’t know who exactly conducted the test, but said that, “this testing appears to have been commissioned by a plaintiffs’ law firm for purposes of litigation.”. However, Carder declined to comment on who commissioned the tests.

    FCA brought up the fact that U.S. pollution standards for emissions are based on laboratory testing, implying that an on-road test would produce results that should be rendered “invalid”. However, Carder had yet another retort to this comment saying that FCA’s vehicles produced results that were not comparable to cars which did pollute within the limits.

    The US’s civil lawsuit against FCA says that any undisclosed software is illegal and that parts of the automaker’s emissions control systems were designed to work around emissions tests. FCA Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne denied any intent to cheat on emissions, and furthermore that the company intends to defend itself “particularly against any claims that the company engaged in any deliberate scheme to install defeat devices to cheat U.S. emissions tests.”

    Be sure to stay tuned to TFLtruck.com for more news regarding the development of this civil lawsuit by the US Justice Department. We actually had the opportunity to emissions test the Ram 1500, here are our results:

     

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    38 thoughts on “Emissions Researchers Allege that Fiat-Chrysler 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 Pollutes Too Much [News]

    1. I hope they can get this resolved soon and get the ecodiesels back at dealers.
      Interesting that emissions were different between the chassis dyno and on the road, despite being loaded in a similar manner-sounds a little fishy.

    2. I find it a bit ridiculous that the EPA and CA-ARB would expect that a Lab tested vehicle would behave the same as a road tested vehicle. Perhaps we need to question how the EPA and CA-ARB test and certify vehicles, and suspect that their methodology is quite flawed!!!!!

      1. I also find it ridiculous, since my 2016 Ram 1500 4×4 averages 24.5 in city driving and 28-31 mpg on the hwy. I previously drove Ford F150’s but hated the poor fuel economy. I believe that FCA caught Ford & GM off- guard. This whole EPA claim does not pass the smell test.

    3. As this has all gone down, Ford has been very quiet about the 3.0 Powerstroke they have announced. Let’s hope that doesn’t get cancelled.

      1. Yeah​ , but right now DSl’s are getting the anal exam. This has to make Ford and everybody else’s nervous. These “independent researchers” I would really question who they are? Sergio is going to have his work cut out for him fighting this one, and it might not be worth it.

    4. I’m sure once this law firm is done with diesels they will start again on gas engines as very few gas engines get the mileage or produce the emissions in real life when compared to ideal lab testing. The law firm should be suing the EPA and CA-ARB for the way they test.

      1. Its really not about diesels. Modern gas engines produce just as much NOx and other pollutants due to their more refined way of burning fuel.

        So this whole so-called “crack-down” of diesels is a wrong-headed uproar by children who don’t know what they are doing.

        Just wait until they start looking at gas engines too, and the same results will play out.

      2. @Dpach,
        Do not ask Mitsubishi about Petrol engines. They lost the farm, when it was revealed they were fudging the C02 and Fuel Econmy of their vehicles. As a result, Renault- Nissan took them over.

        1. @ Robert Ryan, you claimed in another article here on TFLTruck that the Ford 3.2 DuraTorq TDI did not meet Euro 6 regulations. Well, it would appear that you are talking out of your arse… According to the 2017 Ford UK Ranger literature, the 3.2 TDI meets Euro Stage 6 requirements.

          Perhaps you need to get your facts straight before writing anything!!!

    5. I am not sure we will be seeing diesels much longer in the USA unless something changes soon. Either the regulations have to get laxed or the diesels have to clean up. It seems like the diesels may go through something like the smog years of the 70s when manufacturers were learning to make cleaner vehicles and trying to find the balance between being clean and having enough power.

      1. It’s not just the USA that needs to have something change. Every city in the world with prevalent smog has a surplus of unclean diesel cars. We should all be thankful that the laws on this continent are strict enough to provide breathable air. Look at how bad the pollution has gotten in Europe and many Asian countries.

    6. IF you go look at the test, they loaded the trucks down with a lot of weight to get it to pollute more. A rigged test to “cast doubt” in the court’s mind. But a dishonest method. And even they did not accuse RAM of cheating.

      1. That’s really what the arguement is-that when at higher load the engines produce more emissions that they are allowed-nothing dishonest about the test. The real problem is that FCA did not disclose the programing. And why does it perform differently when loaded on a chassis dyno than when loaded in the real world?

    7. So we looked to long suspect Bosch EDCU-17,170 product.In which is the suspected. This engine diesel control runs on many platforms.The latest version now filed by a complained in Eastern district of Michigan concerning 2011-2017 Chevrolet Silverado’s,and GMC Sierra’s 6.7 L Duramax. In court testimony in Europe in Germany Bosch engineering executives testified that it a properatary protected firmware and software language and can not be alter from it’s form from the factory once shipped.So we looked to federal judges to hire emission software engineer’s that are non-bias in the case in California and Michigan to determine were or not FCA or GM alter the firmware and software associated with this diesel emission control device’s I feel EPA does not have the engineering staff that is capable of decoding this device.Take for instance the year long study by the University of California at San Diego State which stated even with what was available on the internet and what case documents filed in Europe even they say it was not likely that FCA engineer’s at Ram had the understanding of such complicated software.Inless Bosch engineer’s were allowed by Bosch executives to alter and risk such grave penalties in both Europe and the United States.I say good luck EPA cause this really could backfire on your testing procedures and in California CARB Board looking to make snuck in a cash strapped state as California and Michigan for that matter and also the Federal Government well less just say there broke.And will chase ambulances anywhere in the good ole USA

      1. Uhh, Bosch themselves altered the code for VW and Fiat. Also, the only difficulty in finding which lines of code are responsible for cheating is the large size of the file. There’s millions of lines. For what it’s worth though, those lines have code have been found. The portion of the code was deliberately mislabeled as “Acoustic Conditions” even though it had nothing to do with acoustics.

    8. Diesels are just a waste of time. One last kick at the bucket to burn more fuel to meet CAFE requirements. The generator-battery truck is and continuing to set the industry standards.

      1. Don’t you mean diesel electrics? with an electric motor supplied with their electricity by a diesel generator?
        That is the most clean and efficient technology today.

        1. Workhorse is using gas generator. 30mpg with 460Hp on tap. If a diesel generator can do better than why did they pick a gas generator. Every generator I have ever bought is gas.

          1. Because they are being cheap. Gas engines are cheaper to build. But diesel motors are better to own, and will yield better mileage.

            1. Too much that goes wrong with a diesel. After 4 years the emissions system gets old and pollutes a 1000 times what gas engine will produce for harmful emissions. Maybe brand new they have a slight edge but most people will not maintain them and its easy to cheat as we seen in the video. People chip them then remove the chip for the test and chip it again as soon as they leave and like the guy said as long as they pass while they are in his shop, he doesn’t care because he got paid and has the paper work that states it was clean even for 1 hour of its life every year.

    9. If the governments really want to clean up the air, put some money into electric semi/tractor trailers. Drivers can only drive so many hours a day legally and then require X hrs of rest; so have 220 volt fast charge stations at truck stops so they can charge while they rest. Shipping is one of if not the largest polluter in North America and it makes sense to target the worst polluter which also conveniently requires downtime for recharging (both truck and driver).

    10. Even if it didnt have emission issues, I’ve done the math 1000x to try and justify the ED over and ecoboost and its just not there. The $20 a month you might save on fuel is nothing compared to how much most folks are paying for these trucks per month, and you take a massive hit in performance.

      1. I would love to order the diesel version of this truck in a Tradesman trim level. Regular Cab, long bed, 4×4, spray-in bedliner, and special order low-volume color (Robin Egg Blue). Maybe step up to a Big Horn model, as they have $6000+ in incentives (if you get the Quad 6’4″ model), and add in navigation and alpine audio (but will be stuck with big gaudy chrome bumpers/grill and a smaller bed). Still $6000 savings more than covers the diesel engine, upgraded audio, and navigation).

        1. The only way its justifiable is the way you wanna do it, a tradesman, no option truck. If your going out and buying a crew cab Laramie ecodiesel for $48,000 and bragging about your MPG’s, well, all I can do is facepalm.

          1. 48k isn’t that much to a lot of people. A Diesel engine is just another option when you don’t need to justify the price. Most pickups you see on the road today aren’t work trucks – they’re personal vehicles no different than the Lexus’s, BMW, Mercedes, etc and people are willing to shell out the $. I have a diesel Colorado, paid good money for it, and yes I brag about the mileage it gets – not because I’m saving fuel but just because it’s pretty cool that a truck can get better mileage than a lot of cars.

      2. Jay, if true, then people will decide with their wallets. That’s the beauty of the marketplace, as opposed to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats deciding what any of us need or want.

        If the ecodiesel is really that bad, peel will stop buying them and they will go away. So far, barring govt. interference, RAm has been able to sell them.

      3. I drive 5-6000kms per month in my ecodiesel and it lowered my fuel cost by $5-600 per month. I had a hemi before which according to fuelly gets about the same mileage as an ecoboost. Never feel like I’m underpowered.

    11. Once the US District court in California rule the Trade-in Value or Selling Price from a CDJR dealership will either stay the same or go up or down.If the judge does allow the flash updated to the some 140,000 RAM,and Jeep owners and the ones that are currently sitting on the backside of CDJR Dealership due to a stop sell,then the price may move up,but if FCA made a deal to move the Ram EcoDiesel to continue production without layoff’s at VM Motori then there may be a deal here on a really nicely loaded RAM 1500 EcoDiesel.Because when I went to my dealership some of the productions dates were as far back as Dec 2016 and the newest was 4/2017. Currently I counted 28 trucks.This judge is going to have to rule soon,and EPA is going to have to make a deal with FCA,because the slowest of EPA in allowing the flash update is hurting the bottom line of many dealerships.Just think of the auction value of this truck going through the lanes to today.In some states you can even tag this truck yet.

    12. Let’s give the EPA and others a hard look. They are why vehicles cost More! They may be the ones fudging the figures.

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