• Why Not Build a Ram 1500 Hellcat or a Ram 1500 Demon? [Op/Ed]


    Ram Rebel TRX Concept

    Knowing what FCA is capable of (you have to admit, they play the power game well), why not build Hellcat Ram 1500 or a Ram 1500 Demon? The boys at Ram already showed off their Ram TRX Concept with a detuned Hellcat power plant – right? How much further can they go?

    Most truck fans are fully aware that Ram is finding new ways to sell their 1500. Be it new trims, special editions and funky new colors, they have pushed the lifespan of the Ram way past its due date. Still, despite a fairly old chassis, they remain more than relevant.

    In the past, Ram claimed fame with their (Viper-sourced) Ram SRT V10 – which was bonkers. The limited production trucks (less than 10K units 2004-2006) are becoming rather collectible. It’s spirit seems to be part of the Ram TRX Concept’s DNA. Why not build a successor to that truck?

    What would it take to build a Hellcat Ram or a Ram 1500 Demon?

    I suppose the 707 horsepower, supercharged 6.2-liter Hellcat HEMI V8 engine, which has already been connected to an eight-speed transmission and all-wheel drive (Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk) would be more logical than a 840 hp Demon power plant. Having little weight over the rear axle may hider takeoff on the strip. It would (most likely) get ghastly mpg. I mean, it’s bad enough in a sleek, lighter weight sedan. Imagine the mpg in a beefy truck?!

    There has to be a good ROI (Return on Investment) before they would even consider such a truck. It would have to be a reliable daily driver, and it would have to both tow and haul. To put that in to perspective, (according to FCA) the 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk can tow up to 7,200 lbs. There is no frame on the Trackhawk; which poses an interesting question – how much could a Hellcat Ram or a Ram Demon tow – if it were built? How much do you think it could haul?

    The 2004-2006 Ram SRT was capable of towing up to 7,500 lbs and, while finding exact maximum payload is difficult, it was over 1,000 lbs. The question would be, on road or off road? The suspension choices would be completely different – right?

    The possibilities are intriguing.

    Come to think of it – why not put this power under the hood of a Ram 2500 Power Wagon? We could call it a Ram 2500 Power Demon and terrify Raptor owners.

    What do you think?


    Nathan Adlen
    Nathan Adlen
    Easily amused by anything with four wheels, Nathan Adlen reviews vehicles from the cheapest to the most prestigious. Wrecking yards, dealer lots, garages, racetracks, professional automotive testing and automotive journalism - Nathan has experienced a wide range of the automotive spectrum. Brought up in the California car culture and educated in theater, childhood education, film, journalism and history, Nathan now lives with his family in Denver, CO. His words, good humor and video are enjoyed worldwide.

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    206 thoughts on “Why Not Build a Ram 1500 Hellcat or a Ram 1500 Demon? [Op/Ed]

    1. I’m a blue oval guy but I like the Rebel TRX concept and also liked Nissans Titan Warrior concept. I think it is good for the industry and ups the competition between all of the manufacturers.

        1. I think all of the truck manufacturers should make a raptor class truck, because ford is moving slower on upgrades for the raptor than the HD trucks and regular half tons. More competition will speed up the process and end up with monsterous off-road vehicles to choose from, so you can pick the manufacturer you like the best without buying one you dislike

          1. There are some people that like an extreme of roader but will not buy anything else but the manufacturer they prefer

      1. I think Ram sucks no matter what gimmicks they produce. Do yourself a favor and buy a Ford. It’s a way better truck.

        1. Says who? People I know that drive Fords have had nothing but issues. They always tell me to steer clear of Ford. One guy in particular, owns a F150, a Mustang, a Explorer, and a HHR and said that his HHR has been the least problematic. I said well why do you keep your Fords then, he said because he’s a Ford guy and grew up on them.

    2. That pic is a good one, I like it.

      But Ram will need to do a lot of work in the undercarriage and payload to make it a player.

      1. They are testing new 2018 RAM 1500 with more payload capacity​, 6 lug wheels and new air ride as we speak , so I am 100% sure , it’s coming soon, because they have all the components for assembly of this beast ready.

            1. About time. Ram customers are getting tired of needing to jump into their Prius to go grocery shopping.

            2. That’s why I will drive anything but a FCA product so I don’t have to worry. I hate breaking down and spending time at the dealer getting my truck fixed.

            3. Yup no worries here as I don’t drive FCA crap either. I’m not a glutton for punishment.

            4. Whatever haters. My Grand Cherokees and Wranglers, all 8 I’ve owned in the last 20 years, have been rock solid. Keep talking out of your a$$es.

          1. At least Zviera won’t have to worry about puncturing or severely denting his truck’s bed. RAM truck beds are made with high strength Steel. Ford’s aluminum truck bed, well, let’s just say that GM already proved how aluminum truck beds just dont stack up to their steel counterparts.

        1. FYI, proof on what your saying is wrong. No 2018 ram. It’s to late to be testing and have a 2018 release. At this point everything should be ironed out and they should be prepping for production. If they are still testing suspension, they are a year out at least.

          1. They could release it in January of 2018 after retooling in the summer and finalization on the truck. It would just be a 2018.5. I’ve seen it done before by other manufactures.

    3. I really have no clue why they wouldnt pursue it unless they think the 1500 frame was going to bend like a pretzel or something. The raptor clearly sells like crazy since they are getting 20k over MSRP for em. I see them all the time around here(the 2017’s).

        1. Seeing is believing. FCA has all these press releases about what’s up and coming and years later, nothing but the same old stuff. Of course zviber is a FCA employee so she may have some insider info since she speaks like its all fact.

            1. Yea we know better. FCA just drags their customers along with new release info hoping they will stay. Like you!

        1. Everything huh dude?? Chevys are junk all the way around it. Fords falls apart, but least it’s a bad ass truck compared to GM products. And RAM trucks do have awesome residual value from day one to current vehicles. I’m sorry, but FCA builds a very badass lineup of cars and trucks, way better than GM products.

    4. I think Ram is slated for a 2019 total redesign and now that Sergio has back off his weird obsession with a merger maybe they can focus on some updated products. Yes, FCA has talked too much and delivered too little but what they have delivered has been really good and I’m not exactly an FCA guy. That Pacifica is a sweet minivan and I hate minivans.

      We all know Fiat cars have problems. Heck, the ones over here almost always did, but our Jeep has been great. Ram knows it has to deliver on its next truck and creative packages (read too many “special editions”) have paid off for them but the expiration date has arrived. It’s time to put up or shut up and I think they will on the Ram. They have to – it’s their money maker along with Jeep. Notice how they got very quiet about the Jeep truck? Maybe it will be delayed in favor of the Ram. I have made it known for fullsize trucks I’m Ford first and then Ram but you have to give it to Ram – they have the kahunas to do some crazy stuff and that hellcat and just sitting there begging to be put in a truck. I’m not sure anyone has an answer if they do. If the fuel regulations are lifted, and they will be to some degree, look out. I do think Ford can boost the EB to compete but have you heard that Hellcat?

      BTW, Zvierra, I’m proud of you for being so nice to JJ in your responses. You boys are doing well. Now. JJ, I like you but you may have some study hall today…👌 Just playing guys!

      1. He is only being nice because it is a ram article. If it was Ford, he would be in mega bash fest. That is his MO. Bash anything Ford and promote FCA stuff.

            1. Yea right. You lie all the time and muddy everything up. You have nothing good to say and just keep bashing. If you were good you would not have people ask you to go away. Heck, before you showed up I had no issues talking good about FCA articles. But time for your own medicine troll!

      2. I had a pacifica rental in OKC and it was nice, I was pleasantly surprised. The other FCA cars I have had as rentals were not the best(Dodge Journey, 300, Charger)

    5. I think some day we should all volunteer to take a dose of truck serum and then get on here and post, starting with what we do, who we work for, and all that. LOL.

      Where I live we used to have almost an even mix of Ford and Chevy with a few Rams but now I think it is mostly Ford with Ram above Chevy. I really think Ram may overtake Chevy unless Chevy nails their next product.

      1. I’ve already hinted in what I do for living. Plus I have an advantage of having years of service history on all 3 brands.

        1. Growing up my dad was a Dodge guy. My paternal grandfather was a Ford guy all the way and my maternal grandfather was a whatever works best at the time guy (like me). I have owned Ford, GM, and Toyota trucks but have never owned a Ram. Most people around here really like the Ram light duty trucks because a truck around here is mostly used for hunting, family trucks, and driving to work. Now the farmers and construction guys get heated over the HD trucks with most saying they just want one that will keep them running on the job.

          1. My parents had Ford and Dodge. The Dodges never held up as well as the Ford stuff. I remember my mother had a Gremlin. Neat car but had no floor boards. Had some Nissans and Toyotas too. They were great cars. My family still drives Ford today. I have had Ford and Honda with great success. At work we can easily get twice the service life out of Ford and GM products with pretty equal cost per mile. Anything FCA last about 120-150K before they exceed their cost benefit. It is a secret company policy to not buy FCA products because cost of ownership is to high compared to the other 2 brands. As a company we are watching cost heavily and some higher ups wants to have us buy some Jeep products because they are thousands less. But we have the data to support that would be a bad move. Plus data from other companies like ours. A good friend of mine is a head of a county position. He buys FCA products because they are thousands less than Ford. But he even admits Ford vehicles last twice as long. His FCA products are auctioned off broken just over 100K. He auctions his running Ford vehicles running with 200K on them. But he counts pennies with every purchase and doesn’t look at long term. County work may dictate that.

            1. Why would I listen to a person who holds up a Gremlin as something relevant to a vehicle made today? Your anecdotes are meaningless. Ford vehicles last twice as long? Give me a break.

            2. I never said I was the owner. We have 20,000 employees while I’m part of leadership, I am far from the senior leadership team.

    6. Moondog
      Similarly, around here, it use to be about 40% gm, 40% ford, and 20% dodge. Today those percentages have changed a lot. I’d say 50% ford, 35% ram, and15% gm. If you look at 250-550 trucks, the change is even more stunning. I’d say ford 70%, 25% ram, and 5% or less gm. And yes over the last 5 years or so the brand that seems to be increasing in popularity the most is ram.

      1. Dan that is exactly what I’m seeing around here. It really makes me wonder how long it will be before Ram takes the 2 spot and keeps it. I see maybe a slight bit more than half Ford but it has become noticeable, very noticeable. I know FCA has had some quality issues and one of the worst cars we ever owned was a Plymouth minivan. Wow, that thing was awful and Chrysler said they had no idea why it was so bad and gave us a new one without us even asking. It lasted about 13k mikes before almost everything went wrong. The next one was fine. My son’s Cherokee Trailhawk is a 16 and we have had it about 11 trouble free months. Time will tell. I have actually owned some really good VWs and Mazda over the years too. If I’m honest I’d say the most trouble free trucks I ever owned were actually Fords. Even more than my Toyotas. I hope I can drive my current Toyota literally forever just because I’m tired of buying vehicles. 🙂

        1. I am seeing a lot of new Ram trucks here too. I’ve also noticed the giant 25% discount sign in the store front when I go by. Sign would make me consider stopping to look if I was in the market.

      2. Since GM got out of the medium duty market and now the only thing they really have is a 3500 chassis cab, they have been loosing out to Ford and Ram.

    7. I say why not try that concept in a truck? You might have to pay a gas guzzler tax, but big deal, huh? It’s too bad the old 426 Hemi wouldn’t pass current emissions. That would be a beast.

      1. RAM and GMC need to get on board, it would be awesome to watch all three manufacturers fight with each other for dominance just like what they are doing with the muscle/sports cars. If RAM wants to run big power in their 1500s I would suggest traction bars front and back, transmission, transfer case and front and rear differential coolers…..that’s right they have to keep all those parts cool when that truck is being pushed to the max for extended periods of time. Another issue is balancing out the truck properly for maximum performance….maybe do a carbon fiber hood and roof and beef up the rear end. Dual electric fans that can be controlled to run continuously or by sensors, put bigger heat extractors on the hood. I like what I can see for suspension with the fabricated lower A arms and King shocks as well as extended sway bar end links, I would beef up the steering components though and the axles.

    8. I know there are some power junkies out there BUT how much would the suspension of an off-road based truck have to be modded to safely handle this much power? For years Porsche has been saying enough is enough when it comes to power and I’m not aware of too many folks that make better suspensions than them. I know this is apples and oranges but this is a lot of power that to me would involve a lot more than just dropping a powerful engine in the bay and calling it a day. I don’t require this much power and honestly, probably don’t want it. It would be cool but I don’t need it.

      1. That is very interesting moondog. But it makes sense though. You figure the more power the stronger the components need to be. That adds weight. You then struggle to get the tires to grip. AWD would be an option but again weight. But it sure is fun watching companies play the power wars.

        1. Oh we are living in a very special time fo car tech and power junkies. These are the modern day muscle cars days. This will some day be the good old days. I fear that self driving cars will take all the fun out of driving and we will look back at these good old days and talk about how much fun it was to drive, kind of like our forefathers did when the car took over for the horse and buggy. Maybe our future generations will at least take a ride every now and then on one of the old cars kind of like us going horse riding for a hobby. Sad but true.

            1. Saw that one Zman but they just have to get it here. We are almost to the point of being in a bind while the bottom is dropping out from under us on resale value…I would love more choices sooner than later.

    9. Ram needs to focus on making better trucks before making gimmick models. We know a Ram can’t hold a Ford’s jock strap in the real world.

            1. The popcorn thing is not working too well. Got butter finger marks all over my iPhone now☹️😓

    10. My thoughts about FCA. Alfa Romeo Giulia, Challenger Demon, SRT hellcat Jeep, etc. FCA has made major moves to put the so called “spotlight” on them.
      The Ram 1500 has sold well and they’ve noticed and have chosen to delay Ram upgrades while upgrading other vehicles in FCA lineup.

      1. They are right on schedule. They have 8 speed for 4 years already, multilink air ride.. It needs to be executed properly and I have no doubts that FCA will have a truck like this in their portfolio. Look at the Nissan Cummins. To much hype for fail. Toyota is very behind, Ford flooded with recalls, costing them billions, because of unfinished products to the market.

        1. Per brand FCA has the highest amount of recalls per vehicles sold out of the big 3 since end of 2016 from 1985; 1,422 recalls per 1,000 sold. Ford has 1,139 per 1,000 sold and GM is doing best with 958 per 1,000 sold.

          Source: Wards Auto / Forbes / JD Power all state the same.

          Hate to burst your bubble.

            1. wardsauto.***/industry/best-and-worst-automaker-recall-rates

              Switch *** for com Or just google it yourself if you have trouble. It is not hard to find at all honestly.

            2. Ok. I am not going to question wardsauto methodology and data for the last 32 years, because I don’t have any from them.
              I know, you are the Ford salesman, so let me ask you. How many cars do you have on your lot for sale made in 1985 ?
              How many made in 1986,1987,1988,1989,1990,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,
              2001,2002….2016 ?
              Why not list a 1966-1980 and talk, how a little warning label saved Ford from a 23-million-vehicle recall and extinction ?

              autoweek.***/article/wait-theres-more/little-warning-label-saved-ford-23-million-vehicle-recall

              My point is , you salesman presents the data which is in your best benefit and hide the data you don’t like and will harm your success.

              Let’s get data for the last 10 years, or more importantly a data for the last 5 years, when you can still find some preowned vehicles for sale and see what progress Ford and RAM did to address recalls.
              I am sure you have an access to the data like that, but you won’t post them.
              You like the Wardsauto source, so here is a recent link from this month for your Ford quality and customer satisfaction.
              It plummeted and made a huge impact on the Ford’s profit. I am not sorry to burst your bubble, because you know exactly what the real situation is, you just lie through your teeth, like any salesman does.

              wardsauto.***/news-analysis/salary-bonuses-cut-ford-execs

              http://www.autonews.***/article/20170402/OEM02/304039926/quality-takes-toll-on-ford-exec-bonuses

              *** (com)

            3. Well anyone can make a point and justify it. Not once did I lie. I made a statement and provided proof you asked for. Big whoop. To accuse me of lying though, kinda harsh bud.

              Marchionne is still in talks of trying to pawn off FCA to another company after many turn downs looks like his best and possible bet is a merger with VW.

            4. AMSTERDAM — Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne rowed back on his search for a merger on Friday, saying the group was not in a position to seek deals and would focus instead on developing its business plan.

              Answering investors questions in Amsterdam, he said there were no merger talks ongoing with Volkswagen, a deal he had said last month was a possibility.

              “On the Volkswagen issue, on the question if there are ongoing discussions, the answer is no,” Marchionne said.

              “I have a lot of respect for Volkswagen and I think we are not in a position to discuss any alliance, the primary focus is (on) the execution of the plan,” he added without elaborating.

              Moondog, I don’t care what happened in 1985, when I am on the market to buy a truck in 2017.
              Last 5 years is most important for me for recalls and Ford is a king for them right now.

            5. Zman, relax. I don’t think anyone is trying to lie to you. If you think they are mistaken then show them. I have certainly not lied but just posted the link you asked to be posted. Not sure about what you just posted because the link did not work for me.

            6. I don’t care either, truth be known, but you asked for the link. Also, the data goes up to 2016 I think? I would think data for the last 5 years would be much more relevant.

            7. Past 5 years? Didn’t Ram have a huge buy back up to 2013 models for steering and suspension issues? Yes. Didn’t some Jeeps just kill some people? Yes.

              Zviera, talk all you want about other brands but FCA isn’t clear of their recent death tolls and recalls either in the past 5 years. Every brand has their dirt and mud so if you throw a little expect some in return bud and take it with dignity like everyone else. We could all troll FCA all day long, but a lot of us long timers on here are getting tired of the stupid jabs in every post. We get it, you vape,… doesn’t mean you got blow smoke up everyone’s toosh.

            8. No, Ram didn’t have a huge buy back up to 2013 models for steering and suspension issues.
              Jeep didn’t kill anyone. Drunk driver did.
              And no Marchionne is NOT still in talks of trying to pawn off FCA to another company after many turn downs looks like his best and possible bet is a merger with VW.

            9. @JayB
              I didn’t find that
              “a huge buy back up to 2013 models for steering and suspension issues.”

              I am not going to post a links for millions of recalls ford did last 2 years, because we would be here all day long. You know that.

              You said
              “Marchionne is still in talks of trying to pawn off FCA to another company after many turn downs looks like his best and possible bet is a merger with VW.”

              That’s a lie.

            10. No he won’t be Jay. What he will do is take certain words in each paragraph and say it doesn’t say buy back. Then he will try and redirect attention from ram to Ford.

            11. I know but I like to prove him wrong since he is so ignorant. He still ignored that fact the the transmissions in the new Jeeps killed people even though it made global news for a solid week. 😛

            12. @JayB
              That article says , that “The buyback, however, will only be offered to owners of vehicles who have not had recall repairs.”
              I was one of them and my rear differential was checked immediately, nothing was wrong, but they replace the nut and apply the Loctite when available.
              Not many people really sold it back to FCA, because by the time this bayback was issued, repairs has been completed on well over 60% of the subject vehicles, leaving less than two hundred thousand eligible vehicles.
              Customers have an option to either wait for the repair ,or sell it back. No one knows, how many used bayback.
              Feel free to post any real number you want to call a huge bayback, if you know, how many really sold it back to FCA.
              I am not going to play this game with recalls and post any, because Ford is a King of recalls last 5 years and counting.

            13. The recall states the transmission will slip out of park. Why are you arguing it? What is there to argue about that?

            14. Jay, the only thing that caught my attention in zebras post is he had “his rear end checked☝️. “So I’m not going to go there at all…..

            15. @JayB
              No. Transmission will not slip out of the Park Position. It was always operators error.

              The problem involves an electronic gearshift, whose operation is similar to that of a video-game joystick. It has confused many drivers, who thought they had left their cars in park, only to find they were in neutral, and started rolling away after the drivers stepped out.

              Last August officials at the highway safety administration told Fiat Chrysler that it was investigating complaints from 14 owners of some of Fiat Chrysler’s most popular models. The owners said their vehicles had rolled away — in some cases causing accidents and injuries — when they left the vehicles, thinking they were safely in the parking gear.

              They were not in the Parking Position, which is pretty normal for any car to move , when in no parking position. Ford moved even when in Parking.

    11. The publicity from this truck would more than pay for its worth. I believe they will build it. I’ve already pre-ordered one with my dealer, although he laughed at me, and have my banker on speed dial. I’ve only waited since 2008 so one more year won’t make any difference.

    12. I figured it wouldn’t be long before you chimed in! I know you like the power and this would be that and then some. The publicity would be out of this world and it would turn much more attention to the brand. It would be a smart marketing moved until pictures of them wrecked everywhere from guys crashing them off-road showed up! It would also push the rest of the market to do something similar and when that happens we all win.

      1. Your talking about the Raptor that jumps the sand dune and buckles it’s entire front end. Lol. But they still sell like hot cakes according to the publicity. I can see why China wanted them for the rice rocket V6. Just not for me.

        1. Just heard on the radio this morning about Toyota testing a hydrogen engine truck this summer with 600 some hp. Thought you may find that interesting Thomas. Can’t remember if you knew or not.

            1. LMAO 😂. WATCHED ONE TOO MANY 4×4 commercials

              This is what happens after the add cuts the picture of the Raptor nose diving into the ground. Same goes for any truck on any add. 🤣😂😆

              Nathan you stirred the pot, I’m doing like Moondog and getting some popcorn with a beer 🍻

            2. I’ve seen that too. Totally the wrong truck to be jumping that high and that fast. I wondered how bad they got hurt. That was a horrendous crash to the ground.

            3. That was a brand new truck. Wonder if it was his or his parents. Judging by the tailgate I think the whole frame was bent.

            4. You know that guy took it to the dealer that Monday and was like ” I just went over a speed bump in my subdivision and this is what happened. This should be warranty!”

            5. Would have been more believable if he told the insurance company that it fell off a tow truck. Since tow trucks and Fords go together like Hot Jerky and campfires. (Kidding)

        2. Here you go Rambro just for you!

          Show me any other STOCK vehicle taking this kind of abuse over and over again blitzing whoops, landing big jumps and I’ll concede to your Raptor bashing.

          This video is actually quite impressive especially when Kenneth gets at the wheel!!!

          https://youtu.be/0ct4PwI7FGA

          1. Ya but how many Raptors were injured or killed in this blitz before he got it right. This is what you don’t see. The old Ram Runner could run bigger whoops than the Raptor when they went head to head but the Raptor beat in the turns and the looks department. I don’t think the Raptors reign will last for long

            1. So you want to compare a custom built ram runner to a factory built production truck? Hardly seems fair or logical. Im pretty sure Bigfoot will eat that little ram runner alive in the jumps.

            2. @Jimmy Johns. So if you add a factory installed tonneau cover that maintains your warranty on the Raptor than I guess the Raptor is also custom built🤔🎤

            3. No but if you change the suspension then yes. The ram runner is a one off truck. You can piece it together from a catalog of parts. Hardly a comparison at all. Plus i seem to recall the old Raptor was still better than the catalog runner.

            4. Um no. Mic was dropped. You don’t get to determine what is a factory truck for all of us. So a suspension counts but tonneau cover does not. That’s your opinion. Fact is the truck maintained factory warranty under factory installed parts.

            5. Same goes for a Trd. I can get a suspension added to the Tundra or an exhaust system. It’s all under Toyota warranty dealer or factory installed. If it doesn’t void my warranty then why should I care.

            6. looks like you have early mic dropping syndrome because it was premature. I need that link showing where you can get a ram runner factory option.

    13. Gee you guys are saying what is going to happen. I believe ram could over take gm in sales. I have also stated I don’t see much evidence intivation ideas from ram. Maybe something will get leaked out I don’t know. Reason that ram is out pacing gm is ram doing deep discounts​ on old trucks.

      As for the video and question. Good video Roman. That is 1st time I seen this truck close up. Seen pictures of it, but pictures don’t give you much details. Wow that engine is way up under there! Man them big wheels in the bed sorta made the bed useless. I told you guys I’m not into off roading so this isn’t really in my wheel house. If they do make this it is going to be more of nich vehicle that would probably not produce many of them. I also believe it will be lot more expensive than a raptor. For ram (FCA) being in debt im not sure this will benefit them much.

      1. Marc, I think it could help them sell more Ram trucks by bringing more attention to the brand. As I have said before, for fullsize trucks I’m Ford first and then Ram. It used to be Ford then Chevy for me but that has changed. In the Southeast US many others are starting to think Ram before Chevy now and you see it on the roads. I even had a family member that is Ford loyal the other day say, you know, I would look hard at a Ram if I was in the market. A lot of people are doing that and buying them. The heavy discounts are working but let’s face it, the domestics have been doing this for a long time and Ford and Chevy also discount heavily. Ford does not discount as heavily as the others but they do discount very well. For whatever reason, Ram is moving trucks and moving them well.

        1. the reason gm truck and large suv popularity is fading is fear! customers see that these vehicles have been plagued with issues [like vibrations and cabin pressure] and that gm has not found a fix even after several model years being affected. people also remember all those safety recalls from a few years back [ some affecting vehicles over a decade old}, that they owned up to only after having been forced to. So until these present issues are either addressed and a fix is found or a newly designed model doesn’t have the problems; many customers are simply going to steer clear of the brand!

          1. This is completely accurate and true. Where I live people say you have a beautiful SUV but I would have to buy an Expedition or something else because I’m afraid of anything GM. I then get asked if I had any problems out of mine. At that point the conversation is just beginning…. My wife and I have likely decided to go ahead and take a hit and sell ours. If I knew the Expedition would be here soon I would try to hold off a little while longer.

            1. Around here people buy the Expedition because it is considerably cheaper. 10k less, or more. They buy the GM SUV when they want the better looking longer lasting truck that has better resale.

              Ford stuff just does not last.

            2. I only bought my first GMC Yukon XL because my wife thought is was “pretty” and that it had the room we needed. It was the worst purchase decision of my life and the worst car I ever owned. It was a 2015 model. I only got my second GMC Yukon XL because it was a year newer, had more options on it, and was given to me free by GM because my first one was such a dog. The only reason we didn’t buy the Expedition was looks alone. It looked old and dated. Looking back I would take that in a heartbeat because guess who’s vehicle spent 5 days in the shop last week and has to go back for several more next week? Yessir that would be mine. And, that old, date Expedition also has more room than my GMC.

              To be fair, my 2001 Suburban was driven for over 8 wonderful years and was the best family vehicle we have owned. You may be right about them being the longest lasting because they will literally last forever if they spend their lifetime in the shop. My have the mighty have fallen…

      1. Sure did Kris. Sad these trolls have waded across the troll pond and started their crap here. Sad, sad day time for TFL.

    14. Moondog you can bring attention to your brand , but it doesn’t necessarily bring sales. I just think what I said about the discounts to old platform. I don’t know about certain parts of region doing well. I take that info with grain salt until I see hard data.

      Dan bush I don’t know all about them things that you cited and I’m sure they are true. The ignition issue with gm has been a big problem to sort it’s self through and cost gm more I think that would you to believe. Yes I would agree most part of your blog. I do wanna mention I do see some invotaded ideas from gm where you don’t see much from ram.

      Zviera I red that little link dating back from Feb of this year. Sergio just 5 days ago said that any merger deal is off until they erase any debt. So what I said holds true they have a lot debt. No brand wanted there debt. Sergio can not just rely on just pickups to get FCA out of debt. Yes it is bread and butter , but it isn’t enough. his Jeep’s do well. After that what else? His minivan? Just isn’t much else. I think time will tell. It will be interesting to watch to see what Sergio will do.

      1. Marc, the hard data is there month after month. Ram is catching Chevy and has now passed them twice nationally since last September. This was never even a thought before. This was never supposed to happen – it couldn’t happen – but it did and will again.

        We can link whatever we want but we all know FCA has cash flow issues. I wish them well because we don’t need any more bailouts.

        Getting attention to your brand gets sales or else we would have no reason to advertise. Trust me, since joining Tacomaworld and seeing every other page with a fancy truck gadget, I may need to win the lotto soon…

        1. I don’t know what to take from the data so far but year to date sales in March 2016 and 2017 for Ram is up from 113,367 to 119,199. That is an increase which is the good direction. GM seems to be stagnant right now with 2016 at 128,985 for chevy and 51,131 for GMC. Full size trucks and 2017 is 128467 and 49810. Ford was up roughly 20,000 units but I’m not sure why GM is not increasing. I actually thought GM with their sales would gain. However FCA is aggressive on discounts and advertising so it may be working for them.

        2. Moondog I was talking about how ram does in sales in regions or certain parts of the country. If you red my blog correctly I said they be ahead in sales all together. My therory is because discounts​. I also said when you bring special product out it has to benefit the company. Now I’m sure it will but is worth it to do it? The Tacoma is not a nich vehicle. this trx is.

          Agree on no bail out!

      2. Marc, with regards to the last part of your post I would have to believe that no one want to merger or buy out FCA until their ecodiesel issues and Cummins issues are sorted out. Because FCA and EPA have not released anything yet tells me their was emissions cheating and they need to get it fixed. The price for repairs could be costly and if it affects the EPA fuel economy rating customers will qualify for a rebate or maybe a buy back. So one wants to take that on in a merger. At least I wouldn’t want to.

        1. Jimmy Johns the eco DSL is minor issue that is going to get resolved regardless. FCA just like the rest of the companies have budgets to deal for unseen circumstances.

          Look guys FCA don’t have much cash flow that means they are in debt. Yes zviera I red your link , but it didn’t say a word about debt like you said. That means it wasn’t reported. Just because it wasn’t reported doesn’t mean they don’t have debt. They do and leave know doubt about. That is the big reason no one is interested in them. Also another reason ram is there bread and butter then maybe Jeep after that what else brings in revenue ? FCA is struggling. Like I said Sergio got his work cut out in front of him. Thxs for the link zviera , but it didn’t change my mind.

          1. Marc, it may have more to due with how much it will cost to fix it. FCA is looking at 200 million to fix 130,000 Cummins equipped trucks now and is suing Cummins for the money. Depending on what the ecodiesel will cost it could really hurt them.

          2. I know,that any hard evidence won’t change your mind and honestly I don’t care. My attention is only, you don’t spread a false information without any correction.
            You say,that FCA doesn’t have any cash flow and you are wrong. Projects like Trackhawk, Hellcat, Demon , TRX, RAM Long Houler,Jeep Yuntu…
            require a lot of extra cash, other companies are not willing to pay.
            Jeep expands heavily in China. Ford is in even deeper dept and you don’t care. Their recalls hit them heavily and it will cost them a billions, but you won’t report about that one. I don’t have a problem,that you post anything, but fact is fact and this is just your opinion.

            1. Really? You think because fiat can throw on a supercharger on one of their engines it is a big deal? The fact is they just add a supercharger. Prototypes are just that. Everyone has them. The demon is a joke. It is an unsafe car and should never be sold. The trackhawk Jeep, well we will see that thing rip itself apart. A mid sized SUV with 700 HP with small axles, small diffs, small transfer case. Yea, that will work. The power wagon is just a cheap way for fiat to attemp to say they have something to compete with a Raptor. They only lifted it, put in a front locker and called it good. Cheap!

            2. Actually the 5.0L handles 800 HP quite well. The only mod needed is to upgrade the oil pump. The stock bottom end can handle 1000HP on turbos. Even the transmission can handle it. The only change is calibration and new torque converter. In fact the cobra jet mustang that runs in the 8’s runs on a 75% stock engine with a whipple. Get rid of the whipple and add turbos it would go faster on the same boost pressures. The Demon is a pretty much all upgraded engine compared to the 707 version. FYI the demon runs high 9’s no match for Copo Camaro or Cobra Jet Mustang.

    15. I suspect FCA won’t do a Hellcat or Demon RAM due to MPG penalties and CAFE requirements. These high-performance vehicles are expensive for the mfrs to produce, especially in terms of R&D/ROI and the CAFE hit.

      Another reason could be transmission longevity given the horsepower and the mass of a large pickup truck. A RAM is quite different from a Challenger.

      I don’t buy the “it needs to haul/tow” requirements. Look at the Raptor…it had been essentially neutered in that department and is still high demand.

      1. I’m not sure if their would be much profit in a low volume specialty vehicle. Even though they are priced high, with limited run parts specific to that vehicle it may not be profitable. More a PR thing. Gets people into the dealership to look and maybe buy something on the lot.

        1. This is my point. These vehicle are to get people on the lots looking – at literally anything. Very few of these low volume cars are huge money makers. Nissan doesn’t even know if their Z car will continue because it is so low volume.

    16. My friend Zman stated that he did not care about recall data going back 30 years and I kind of agree because that is a long time when we are worried about the here and now. Having said this, below is a handy link going back 31 years BUT the data also shows the last 10 years and I think we would all agree this would be more relevant. The article breaks down the data from 05-14 but if I find something newer I will post it too.

      http://blog.iseecars.com/recall-rates-timeliness-trends-iseecars-study/

      1. @Moondog
        From the link you posted and what I understand, the Chrysler Group LLC is ranked number 9 with 0.98 Recall rate and Ford is ranked 12 with Recall rate 1.31 which is 1.31 recalled vehicles per unit sold.
        So basically Ford has more recalls per unit sold than Chrysler Group for the period of 2005 to 2014.
        Just imagine, where Ford is right now, with all those recalls for the years of 2015 and 2016.
        They would be dead last, king of Recalls, exactly like I said.

        1. For the next year (2015) FCA and Honda alone accounted for 44% of all recalls. I think we are going through a time where is in doubt recall.

          1. Moondog. Exactly! when in doubt recall. The record FCA fine likely scared everyone else and they started looking at skeletons in their closets. The good side to recalls is they are very expensive for automakers. So hopefully they take this into account and improve reliability. This helps us in the long run.

            1. I have been researching this out of curiosity alone and it kind of goes in spurts. FCA seems to have the most from what I see, or very close. Toyota went through a tough time about 8 or 9 years ago with all the unintended acceleration stuff and Honda in 2015. FCA apparently had a horrible 2015 and it appears (not officially saying this) they would lead the safety recalls for the last few years. This is only because the VW emissions is not really counted as safety?

            2. Moondog, there are several different types of recalls. Safety is the biggest one. Then there are emissions compliant recalls like the VW one you mentioned. Then they have customer satisfaction recalls. For example, Ford had a recall on the Fusion a few years back because of some poorly fitted trim panels. I forget the number of types of recalls but there are several different categories.

            3. I agree with you Jimmy. Most danger recall is for the engine, transmission ,brakes master cylinder and door latch.

          2. @Moondog
            It looks ,that from 2005 to 2014 Ford had much more recalls per unit sold than Chrysler, which is shocking for me, because of constantly listening the ford horde, how bad Fiat is. The 2015 was the year of Fiat recalls , but not by much, because Fiat, Honda, Ford , Toyota and GM represented 72% of all recalls, Fiat was 25%, Honda was 19%, so for Ford ,Toyota and GM is 29% left combined, but we don’t know the formula between them and for 2016 is Ford in lead again and counting.
            I am still shocked , how good Fiat did between 2005 and 2014 compare to Ford, but my experience supports this observation.

            1. Zman it makes for some interesting reading for sure. In the end, I’m not even sure what any of this means because we could break these numbers down and likely debate the nuances forever. I do think that all manufacturers over the years have errored on the side of recalling. I have two really stupid recalls on my daughter’s 2016 Mazda CX-5 that was an “important” safety recall and they are both just stupid and even my dealer said they were. I’ll only fix it so they will stop sending me all those letters. I think we all have brands that we like, some more than others. I say buy whatever you want and be happy. I don’t get tied up in all the my brand is better than your brand stuff because it gets us nowhere. I do enjoy when we debate the towing and things like that, mainly because I don’t tow much and I learn so much from the more experienced people here.

        2. Who cares about recalls. All this pointless talk about recalls gets really old. If you look at the link, chrysler group ranks number 2 in the most recalls within 3 years of sale. But who cares.

    17. Last post on this unless someone can find anything better. In 2015 FCA had the most recalls of any manufacturer by far and Honda was second. Between the two of them they made up for 44% of all safety recalls. FCA had 25% while Honda had 19%. This data was supposedly pulled from NHTSA databases…. Please do not shoot the messenger.

      So, what about that Hellcat? 😬

    18. Also, for the record, my son’s 2016 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk has been doing just fine so far. And, I have not been contacted by FCA to glean any interest in a potential merger. I’m not certain but I think the reason could be that I’m not in the car business. I’m still waiting Sergio…. I have a lot of great ideas….

    19. If you build it they will come. I would love to be able to buy a factory 6.2 SC 1/2 ton. 2015 Tundra was the last to build one. Wish GM would do it and lift the truck up 2 inches stock. No one buys a truck for gas mileage that I know of. Still wanting more power in a V-8. Ram has come a long way. My Gen 1 Titan with a 170K Miles just won’t die. When it does I want a truck that runs in the 5’s 0-60 and can carry 2000 Lbs. with a nice interior. Ram with a SC, Titan warrior, GM with a SC, or I like the Ford Atlas, not sure where Ford is with that platform. That could make me a Ford man, did I just say that? Yep. Give us some better quality choices Industry..

      1. Had Nissan built the Warrior they would be in a much better place right now. Advertising alone would have made them in the front pages against the Taptor. Instead their sales are constipated with that shit diesel option. Only 3% of all vehicles sold in North America are diesel. Where did they think that was going to go. They can’t even pff from that rectum it’s so tight. They are at the bottom of the sales and how many are those trucks actually a diesel option……pfff…pffff

        1. Yes, but diesels sell very well in EUROPE where Renault HQ is and they are likely too bone headed to figure out that here in the USA we don’t buy too many of them. Let’s face it, they are nice and cool is you tow but if you are a smart shopper you know that you will have to drive it almost forever to get your money back. All that for better low end torque and a pitiful 0-60 time. Yep, great job Nissan, thanks for the 5/8 ton diesels.

          I agree, Rambro. Had they built this truck, the Titan would automatically have become cool. Even if you couldn’t afford it people would still go look at them and maybe buy and mod a cheaper one.

          1. This is why I hate it when people say manufacturers know what they are doing. They can’t tell you the difference between a hole in the ground or a rectum until they stare at it close enough to get shit on.

    20. FCA is not in a position for merger talks because their business model is insolvent. No one is crazy enough to take on that sinking ship. Let’s face it, FCA makes inferior products that no one wants unless they’re cheap.

            1. If they could come out with a midsize and then small truck then maybe they could promote the Ram name more. That would be sweet. Use the Fiat based Toro for the small truck and to me just dig up the old Dakota, raid the parts bin for nice interior parts (something the old one was lacking), and put the Pentastar V-6 in it, and get ready to sell a bunch of trucks.

    21. I’m starting to think Zman has a split personality. I love FCA and I hate FCA. Hmmmm, or could there be a Zmane?🤔🤥

      1. Moondog
        Are you still looking to replace your Yukon? If so, you have to check out the tflcar video on the 2018 srt durango filmed at the Chicago auto show. Just google it. I think it will get your attention . It sure got mine! Available fall 2017!

        1. Yes but we are not sure if we can wait long enough. We really want to get rid of the Yukon. I’ll look at all options for sure.

    22. Well Nathan I think the optional Power Wagon Demon sounds cool but it’s too heavy. The TRX would pull close to or over 8000lbs with a 12 to 1500 lb payload but again these full sized trucks are too big and too heavy. Like you said. Gas guzzlers. Not only that but because of the size everything costs more because of volume and weight. Buyers like myself and many others are screaming for a midsize with a decent engine. Any small tune over 380Hp even puts the ZR2 or Tacoma Frontier Ridgeline ahead of the best power to weight ratio of a 1/2 ton 4 door. The Jeep has 707HP in AWD. An Off Road Dakota would likely weigh the same due to Off Road gear at about 5000 but you wouldn’t have to worry about wheel spin with AWD. With the 8 speed I bet the fuel mileage would be very decent and not a concern. Likely be able to tow 6000 lbs and haul 1000 which would be enough. Most of the time it would be an all out fun vehicle that you can take to places where the bears don’t give you tickets.

    23. There are a couple of things that seem to come to mind are Ram’s Trucks website has changed on the Rebel TRX it no longer is a concept truck. The Ram 1500 web page now list’s it as upcoming truck. That was were the 2017 Ram Powerwagon was before it went into production. Now the Rebel TRX has been added as a upcoming production truck. A couple of questions I would ask Mike Manly would be will the Buear 15-14 slot drilled brake assemblies make production. Will the Dyna Protrac 60 make production. Will they keep the ZF 215mm axle up front. Will they have a option for a 32 gallon tank. And the current TOYO Open Country mounted specs out with a D rated tire. This frame is a current Ram 1500 crewcab frame so it is capable of towing 9000 pounds.EPA rated fuel mileage with this truck could be slightly better than Ford’s second generation EcoBoost 3.5 L mated to 10 speed paddle shifter currently used in the Ford Raptor which has been rated at 15 City 16 combined and 18 highway ( at what hwy speed that EPA rates at I would assume 70 mph). The Dodge Demon does run on 3 different types of fuel and does have advance sensors to detect octane level and will automatically set tq/hp levels. The Rebel TRX does run a Borg/Wagner 44-45 transfer case so this might be a production part. RebelTRX uses A-Arms from King offroad racing out of San Diego so much like ZF agreement to allow Chrysler to in house build a version of the ZF. Will see if that designed a-arm makes production.The tool bag seems to block the deploy of the passenger side airbag. So much needs to be address here for questions unanswered. And with the Dodge Demon and Jeep Trailhawk press releases finally done. With just the Jeep JL released scheduled for LA maybe these question are getting closer to being answered.Certainly with Ram Trucks website change it looks like it is a green light from FCA Corporate in Warren Hills

      1. Thank you for this info. Very appreciated.
        It’s exciting times we all living in.
        The tool box doesn’t block the passenger air bag, because airbag is on the top of the dashboard I believe. There is a glove box where tool box is on my RAM instead, but I could be wrong only ,if airbag is integrated in the glove box door, which I doubt it, so tool kit could stay, where it is.

    24. On Ram 1500 the air bag system SRS is located in the dash,but I am not sure if the tool bag would stay put in a accident,because the bag rolls over the front of the dashboard.I also would allow dealers/customer’s to opt out (on a factory ordered truck) of the 2 tire carrier, tool bag, seat harness assemblies, door release handle straps. They could be sold through a CDJR dealership as MOPAR accessories. I would allow customers to also to order either a 2 tire carrier or a 1 tire carrier as well. My Ram 1500 had a prerunner tire carrier in the bed that was removable as well as a race jack too which was bolted to the floor of the bed but yet removable to allow for total bed use during the week as a daily driver. With a little work underneath the tire was able to fit in the tire carrier position as was the stock tire.Used a offroad 18 inch wheel.

    25. I can’t stop staring at this truck. If this was parked in my driveway I wouldn’t need a house with a view. Just build a deck around it and stare at it.

          1. Since zibra has inside info on the 2018 ram 1500 and it will be released in 2018, I don’t see how or why FCA would release the TRX on the old platform. We are already in the 2nd quarter of 2017. If it was coming they would be advertising a date by now and they would need to be producing right now just to make 3rd quarter release. If they do come out with this truck, and they should, it would likely be on the new platform.

          2. Rambro, the webpage does say that the concept truck is shown and vehicle specs may change. This indicates they are having thoughts or plans on producing it. However the disclaimer is concerning. Hopefully it isn’t just another sticker and paint package.

            1. I don’t think it will be based on the new 1500 platform. It would be all new like the Raptor. The Raptor is only 450HP and they built a completely different frame than the F150.

            2. With the projected HP and torque I hope your right. It really should have its own backbone specifically designed for its intended use. I’m sure the cab will be shared and likely bed. Fenders my bet will be specific to the TRX unless they don’t widen it like Ford did with the Raptor. If it will be all new I suspect it will then come after the 1500 redesign. Their focus will be getting the system updated for the new design mainstream truck and then focus on the TRX.

    26. It clearly says Rebel TRX which leads me to believe it will be a souped up Rebel on a 1500 Chasis. I just don’t look for FCA to drop enough coin for this to be on its own platform. No way. It would not surprise me to see them drop it on the old platform because even though FCA says they are slated for an all new Ram, it could very well get delayed. In fact, I expect delays because they have been delaying almost everything. Where is the talk of the new Jeep truck that was supposed to be here? Crickets. There have been a lot of FCA delays and this would give them some attention while trying to get the new product to the market. I don’t mean this as a slight but they have worn out the special editions as it is so one more wouldn’t hurt if they have another product delay. Also, we used to go a dozen years or so before we had an updated model. Remember the 73-87 Chevy’s? Good trucks, BTW.

      1. I noticed the Rebel part too but assumed the TRX had rebel in it already. Sounds like adding rebel is new. That makes me wonder if it will be a glorified sticker and paint package. Maybe they could drop in a 6.4L if they don’t do the supercharged 6.2. I guess it is all speculation at this point though. It would be a shame to show off the concept truck and neuter it down though. But once you add the goodies I bet it will be close in weight to a power wagon.

        1. JJ and Rambro, I would bet it is a souped up Rebel. I have read a lot on these and am virtually certain it will be.

          I wish we had a Dakota too but I’m not sure how soon they can get one here. Ford and Ram were caught with their midsize pants down with Ram even more so. Then again Nissan did to a certain degree because they have said lately that her Navarra is not ready for the NA market because it’s not capable enough. It’s more like a global Honda but just maybe slightly more capable.

      2. I just pray you are both wrong and they bring out a Dakota Demon. The SRT 8 is smaller than a Midsize with 707HP. So why not bring in an Off Road Version and chop off the SUV rear trunk and stretch the wheelbase for a 6 foot box.

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