• Aluminum-Bodied 2018 Lincoln Navigator is Teased Ahead of Reveal, Joins Lux SUV Fight


    2018 Lincoln Navigator

    Lincoln has published the following Navigator SUV teaser image via their Twitter account. What you see here is a production version of the next generation 2018 Lincoln Navigator. It’s been approximately 11 years since the Navigator was redesigned, so this big and luxurious SUV could not be here soon enough.

    Below is a quick gallery at the Navigator Concept from last year’s auto show.

    The next Navigator will surely be very large and luxurious. It will also closely follow the 2018 Ford Expedition in terms of chassis and aluminum body construction. EcoBoost V6 power and a 10-speed automatic transmission are surely on the list as well.

    The 2018 Navigator will be unveiled in NYC alongside the Infiniti QX80 Monograth concept. This is truly where large luxurious SUV come out to play.

    TFLtruck is in NYC for the 2017 New York Auto Show. Stay tuned as we bring you all the latest news and specifications, including the all-new Navigator.


    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    262 thoughts on “Aluminum-Bodied 2018 Lincoln Navigator is Teased Ahead of Reveal, Joins Lux SUV Fight

    1. I am happy to see Lincoln finally bringing something that does not look like it was from the 80’s out again. The concept was a cool looking SUV and while I know the gull wing doors will not be production, if they keep the general idea of the concept alive, they may have one of the best looking luxury SUVs on the market. The same as the Expedition. For years both of those vehicles looked like Ford/Lincoln just didn’t care to update them or put much effort into them.

      1. Jimmy Johns – – –

        Exactly. I am so tired of American vehicle manufacturers “chasing the Germans” as their sole role model for automotive perfection. German cars are based on European preferences, but America has had its own sense of luxury in decades past, — one that does not include turning every offering into a tightly cornering race car. I would really enjoy a floating luxo-barge that can cruise our deteriorating highways with comfort and style. If Americans really cared about track performance, we wouldn’t be buying pickup trucks at the rate we do*!

        ——————
        *Three out of five top-selling vehicles in the USA are pickups, with the Ford F-150 outselling all other vehicles, of any type, for more than a quarter century.
        ——————

        ======================

        1. Hold on a minute. We don’t know F150 numbers. F-series is not just F150.
          You could be still right, but listen Ford commercials more precisely, don’t look just at the picture.

            1. Everyone needs to stop comparing a car to a truck. The profit margin is near double and more at times in a truck then a car it’s a totally different more profitable animal.
              #camrysucks

          1. You’re right, the best selling member of the F-series is probably the F-650 and F-750 trucks.

            1. Just on a quick note, why would you pull an article from the 2008 automotive depression 10 years ago? Like hundreds of dealerships went out of business that year and it picked up 4 years later. But anyway: F-Sales 2007: 764,207 and 2008: 583,262,…. last year 2016: 966,208,… almost to a million but not there yet!

            2. Because Bernie said:
              “Three out of five top-selling vehicles in the USA are pickups, with the Ford F-150 outselling all other vehicles, of any type, for more than a quarter century.”

              Now we know, it didn’t happen.

            3. Month-to-month no, year to year, yes. But that was interesting times, you could buy a truck and get a car for free during those days (due to offsets). We ran cash for clunkers,…. struggled to be one of the dealerships that lasted.

            4. Yes interesting times to remember,that Fseries and F 150 didn’t sell more than Camry, Civic or Accord.

            5. Jay,

              The dealer i used to to work for decided to not participate in the cash for clunkers program. It was amazing how many new customers we had during that time. It almost seemed like the people in our area was against that program and really supported dealers that did not participate. There was some nice trucks and vans that got traded in and destroyed.

            6. The ones who did not participate in our areas were dropped by the brands and either became used only lot or shut down completely. We did it to survive, but was stupid program with lots of paperwork and loaded the pick-a-part yards for inventory. The blowing up of engines was always,… HIGH REVVVVVVV EXPECTING EXPLOSION,…. and poot poot died.

            7. The sale people said something about the paper work. You may know but there was also rumors of dealers not getting proper compensation either. So they got hosed. Did hear of anything about dealers getting dropped for not participating but weirder things have happened before. I dont know about your area but at that time Focus wagons were like gold. People would pay top dollar for those things because they could carry cargo and turned great mpgs.

            8. FYI i am not judging about participating in that program. Everyone had to do what they could to pay their bills. I understand that. I just hated seeing some of the nice trucks getting junked. Felt it could have been used to help those that were in need at the time. People were loosing their cars and homes all over the country.

            9. Strong F&I follow up, we got paid on every one. Took up to a year on some claims though, but persistence paid off. Government banked on the ones who shut down so they didn’t have to pay on them, yet money moved to get them off the road. Was a nightmare regardless.

            10. Im glad it worked out for you guys however it does suck the payment took so long. Probably the source of the rumors we heard. As long as we dont go through that again I will be happy.

        2. Bernie I think you are spot on. A large luxury SUV owner is not looking for a cornering machine. They want an impeccable ride that just cruises along like you said. They don’t want stuff suspension but they do want power when the hit the gas.

    2. This would be good looking large SUV maybe, with nice interier and capabilities, but I don’t think that V6 resonates as luxury for potential North America customers. Ford is lacking luxury and potent V8 engine right now.

      1. That is nothing but more of your anti Ford garbage. These types of customers don’t care what’s under the hood. They want power and refinement. They want a quiet cabin, all the toys inside, comfort, and everything else that makes them feel special. Not loud engine noises, especially in the luxury large SUV group.

        1. You are mistaken. V6 TT is precisely chasing Germans, like Bernie was talking about. Potent V8 is America.
          Something like Hellcat or GM 6.2 would be more suitable for this Luxury SUV. It’s a status symbol and outside V6 noise is not really that. Inside speakers won’t cut it. I still think that Ford is lacking American potent V8.

          1. As usual you are dilusional and filled with your Ford hate. You have no clue on that market at all!

          2. Zviera,

            Drive a Ford turbo. They have more punch than any standard V8 you can get. They tow better. They are quieter. They *can* get better fuel economy. They last just as long, and they can be easily tuned for even more power. A Navigator isn’t designed to rumble. But it will have effortless power.

            1. I did recently. My friend has Platinum F150 for 3 years now. I didn’t like the turbo lag without a turbo spool , throttle response, interier, engine running on idle and rear axle suspension handling​ when cornering going over pathole.
              It has a power, once it’s running, but you pay at gas station big time. That’s what he told me before my test drive, so I take it easy.

            2. Troverman, it is obvious that the troll zivera is lying again. He has never driven an ecoboost F150 with the 3.5L.

            3. I did. I just compared it to my RAM I used to, but I understand,when you had an anemic Ford 5.4 before, you are impressed with ecoboost.

            4. Nope, you continue your lies. Everybody knows and every report shows that the F150 with the 3.5L kicks the crap out of an 8 speed ram with its 3:92 gears while Ford was using a 6 speed and higher 3:31 and 3:55 gears. Then when we want to compare to your anemic 2010 with a 5 speed we know your lying. But your comment also outed you on your lies too.

            5. That’s not what I am after. I didn’t like those things I mentioned and there is nothing you can do.

            6. Ford uses sime valving for lack of a better term on their intake to keep the turbos spooled so there is virtually no lag. Ive driven quite a few ecoboosts, a ton of Rams and Gms with 8 cylinders. Even if you feel a split second of lag they will still annihilate anything from Ram in accel and only rhe 6.2 from GM can run ANY competition. In short Im calling BS that you drove one and felt lag if you drove one at all Zviera.

            7. Well, that split second I don’t use to felt like eternity for me. My HEMI with JBA manifolds has much more power than his ecoboost, so it’s understandable I felt disappointed with ecoboost and don’t bring the torque in to the quotation, because I have been told by ford horde, that torque is nothing without a power in the 1 ton Torque testing article.

            8. Dang putc ram how many mods did you have to do to your ram to make it competitive to a F150. Modified engine, modified suspension. I have no doubt that a stock F150 with a 3.5L will out do your 5.7L with 5 speed trans. In fact i bet if you and your friend were to race, once the light went green he could take a poop, walk to his truck, start his truck, set the climate control, find a nice CD to play and still beat you to 60 MPH.

            9. No, he couldn’t. Stock HEMI has more power than ecoboost.

              I would like to ask TFL to test 0 to 60 without turbo spool, so we know ,what that turbo lag really is.
              Do you turbo spool your ecoboost on every red light. You must look like tool. LOL.

            10. well on paper the 5.7L has more HP but real work the 5.7L with a 30 hp advantage just sucks. And that is with the fiat purchased 8 speed transmission. Your 5 speed is even slower. LOL, and thats a fact jack!

            11. Jay, that is a primary reason Ford decided to use 2 small turbos. The spool up much faster. It does come at a cost of peak HP potential but when you have a broad powerband to 6,000 RPM’s, the whole package works really well. All my friends with the 3.5L trucks loves the instant torque especially when towing. And they came from bigger V8 engines. My wife and I have had an Escape with the 2.0L and now a Fusion with the 1.5L. You hit the gas and traction control kicks in right away to control wheel spin. Ford did a great job in calibration for allowing the engine to have power right away. I must admit that I long for the 2.0L in our Fusion. But we decided on MPG for that car since it gets driven 15,000 miles a year. We get a combined 29-30 mpg and a best of 40 mpg on a 1200 mile trip. Never expected it to be that good being a midsized car.

            12. Wow Jimmy, you don’t even have a truck ?
              Why are you trolling at the truck web site ? Do you work for Ford part time?

            13. @Jay
              No, it’s not. That’s why most advanced companies goes with electric supercharger. They just wait to adapt 48V systems,or some did already.

            14. How many times do I need to tell you I have a truck putc troll ram. I was talking about the vehicles I bought for my wife. Try and keep up.

            15. You had a ecoboost, you drilled the intercooler before you blow your turbos with programmer
              and bought a RAM Cummins instead.

        2. @Jimmy Johns, yes this Zviera is a TROLL so don’t feed him. He was banned from PUTC for being just that, a TROLL. Now he’s over here trolling this site and this site does not need him here at all. He also goes by the name RAM sometimes too so just let him go and maybe he’ll do us all a favor and just go away.

          1. Yea i know exactly who he is. I loved proving him wrong there a while ago. He seems to want more by coming here. He went by several names over there and they were all banned. But out of respect for this site I should reconsider engaging him and proving him wrong all the time. Thanks Keifo.

            1. It would be nice to see a 60-80mph passing speed comparison of the V6 turbo vs. the V8 with cylinder deactivation. I bet by the time displacement on demand kicks in, the turbo is at full boost. The best jump and instant power were the old ’60s V8 engines.

            2. Yes, I’d like to see that test too, because displacement deactivation is several times faster than downshift the tranny needs to do.

              The change from one mode to the other is in just 40 milliseconds (0.040 seconds).

            3. Transmission, yes, another thing.. This 6R80… How does it stay in the same gear and yet the engine jumps up to a different RPM range? It seems to either be all engine in a higher RPM or boost at a lower RPM while the same gear number is lit up on the display. Maybe the clutches?

            4. Kris, I am confused on what your saying. If I understand you are seeing an increase in engine RPMs when the transmission does not downshift. If you see that the torque converter is being unlocked. So to increase speed without downshifting, the TCM can unlock the converter and this will increase input shaft torque while maintaining the current transmission gear ratio.

            5. Ok, I understand now. I never had a transmission like that before. I’m sure one day years from now I’ll take her apart to see the inner workings, haha.

            6. Anyway, on topic, strategic use of aluminum is good idea. Why not have lighter, rust resistant body panels?

    3. Most improved year after year of late! Really loves the looks of Lincoln lately, inside and out!

    4. Since NY is where the big lux SUV get shown, maybe we’ll get a glimpse at the Grand Wagoneer, too. The Commander should have worn that name, and with a little retro styling on the front end, wouldn’t have sold any worse. When the WK2 and current Durango debuted, it should have hit the market and made real sales… bad management.

      1. That looks like a hearse not a SUV. Better not look like that! Front end is not far off but that’s it.

    5. I do believe the new Lincoln would benefit from a v8 option. let’s face it, most of Lincoln’s buyers are older customers. And to many older customers, like myself, the v8 is still king. I’m not saying not to have the v6 available, but rather give customers a choice of engines! More choice equals more sales. The f150 sales [with 4 maybe next year 5 engine options] prove it!

      1. From selling Fords and Lincoln, the only thing the Lincoln customer base gripes about not having a rear-wheel drive sedan. None complain about not having a V8 and appreciate the responsiveness of the V6 GTDI line up. So far the Lincoln line up is 3.7 V6 base on SUV’s with turbo engines from 2.0, 2.3, 2.7, 3.0 and 3.5 on the Cars and SUVs. The 3.0 TT has been one of the more popular ones with 400 hp and 400 ft/lbs torque.

        1. why then do you think Lincoln navigator sales are so miniscule compared to other large suv’s. a v8 option would really help!

          1. I think them being ugly had more to do with it. They didn’t sell with a V8 because they were ugly and the current ones don’t sell that well with the 3.5L.

            The vast majority of these owners are not truck guys where they look at the engine. Most of them don’t care what’s under the hood. I have several friends with luxury SUVs and they have no idea what is under the hood. There will always be the one off people and you can never satisfy the one off crowd. But the majority is what companies are after.

            1. you don’t have to be a “truck guy” to understand what is under your hood. How many corvette owners would want a v6 instead of their v8. just look at how many f150’s are sold with the 5.0. if these are just “one off” people I’m sure ford would feel the hit if they went to another brand to get their “familiar” v8 engine. more choice = more sales period.

            2. You don’t seem to understand Dan, this market don’t care about what’s under the hood. I understand you cannot understand that because you are a truck guy and obviously like V8 engines. But you have to step out of your bubble and look at the big picture. Since you mentioned F150 Ford is killing it with both of their turbo V6’s. smaller cars are moving away from big V6’s to turbo 4 cylinders. The corvette crowd is a one off bunch of old guys they own them with a few younger. But look at some other cars like Porsche, Tesla, Nissan GTR. Not V 8 engines in those.

            3. I believe I do understand this market. and just look at who leads, big time, in this market. Chevy suburban with body on frame, rear wheel drive, v8 engine. The real world numbers pin point exactly what “these” customers want.

            4. Dan, what were those customers choices? The engine is small potatoes, they offered better styling, better interiors, better options. Your argument is invalid because customers had little choice for a nice vehicle at a certain price point. I am confident you have never been in one of those vehicles because if you were you would have noticed the lack of engine noise. That’s what those people want. Quiet. How many people in urban areas do you see adding dual exhaust to their Suburban? Can you even get dual exhaust for a Suburban. It is ok you are a die hard V8 guy but you are becoming a minority.

            5. I agree with you Dan, that Lincoln would benefit from V8. It just goes together naturally for luxury seeking customers. V6 should be an option, like Porsche Boxster for poor people wanting a sport car.
              I don’t think Jimmy you understand this Luxury market. Bentley is not going to use V6 doesn’t matter what power it produces.

            6. Rambot, your a troll and won’t agree with anything i say anyways so you have a mute point. That is why you are wrong 100% of the time. Actually I will be nice to you. You are wrong 99% of the time.

            7. I don’t have to agree with you and I don’t this time. Lincoln would benefit from V8. Lincoln V6 doesn’t go together, specially for large SUV.

            8. Lol Zviera I don’t think you understand,… Bently is phasing out their famous 6 3/4 L Engine and yes they are adding V6’s to their line up for their lower end models by 2020. Don’t keep up on times much?

            9. It is not a surprise though. Most luxury base engines are an i-4. Bentley making their base model a Twin-Turbo Six stands out when most of their competitions has it as the premium engine. Their mid-grades will be twin-turbo 8’s like Ferrari’s in terms of displacement. Of coarse will still have power plants like the quad-turbo W16 *drools*.

            10. That’s what we are talking about. Ford Lincoln doesn’t have the V8 option and I think , they would benefit from that. They go to GM otherwise.
              Did any of the potential customers asked you about V8 ?

            11. Nope, maybe different in other areas, I do not know. Coming from the 5.4 Triton, they are impressed with the power and the ride of the 3.5TT. Unlike the old V8, shifting is seemless, responsiveness is much appreciated, and passing power on the highway is much welcomed. Cross shoppers I have come across like the power and if they bought a GM, I get the same answer, “I liked the interior and design better than the (Ford/Lincoln).” The three key points winning over cross shoppers right now on the dinosaurs is the ride (all independent suspension), people who are still fanboys of the brand, and high altitude towing (in my area we have a lot of snowbirds).

            12. So rambot, how do you know the Navigator will not have a V8 option? Speaking out of your butt again?

            13. for 2016, the last available yearly sales data, your v6 powered expedition remained the one in the minority!. which is really amazing since gm has not fixed their vibration and cabin pressure problems on their suvs. and I’m willing to bet that if gm fixes those problems this year they will beat the v6 expeditions even worse next year. And they’ll do it with their “outdated v8” power.

            14. I don’t lie. You can take it or leave it as such. I always just pass information to my customers and they can buy it or not buy it. No biggie. In a small town dealership you can’t afford to offend or get caught in a lie, otherwise you won’t get the repeat business. The sleezy salesmen that get hired here don’t last longer than 3 months, while the good people stick around. The information and feedback I hear from my customers I always post here, and you can take it or leave it. No problem on my end what opinions you take home with you. It is not like I am trying to sell you something, and if I was, I could care less what you buy where you buy or drive just as long as you are happy in the end. That is all that matters.

          2. Outdated exterior and interior. A lot have switched to Chevrolet for looks a lone. Never once have I heard “There is no V8 options, I am not buying.” Most these buyers want to “stay with times” not be in a dinosaur, and right now Ford/Lincoln full size are dinosaurs. If the V8 was there, its sales would still suck. Believe what you want, but you will see sales sky rocket from the make over a lone and still no V8 option.

            1. Jay I agree 100%. With the new looks of the Expedition inside and out and what the new Navigator is looking like so far, this will help their sales. It will take time as they get a hold of new customers but I believe it will.

            2. Jay B., you are correct. As a former customer, I would not buy the Expedition because my wife thought it looked outdated. She even used the word dinosaur from the 90s, which made me feel kind of old, but I knew what she was talking about. I wanted the Ford but just couldn’t get past the fact that it has been literally forever since a real redesign.

          3. Navigator sales are down because of several reasons:

            -Very old platform. 2003 is the basis for the current platform.

            -Years of the only engine option being a 5.4L V8. Good motor, but soon began to be outgunned in terms of HP and torque.

            Since the EcoBoost engine has been offered, both Expedition and Navigator sales have gone up…quite a bit. There is also a slightly freshened interior and exterior styling.

          4. They are moving in the right direction and closing the gap month after month. Same thing with ram, it’s a slow process to climb, which yes Lincoln is up there yet. There’s potential in the brand though!

      2. There is a lot of truth to what you say here. I agree with you BUT Lincoln and Cadillac are chasing the middle age crowd nowadays. Right or wrong it is what they are doing. My paternal grandfather only bought Ford products my entire life. Ford trucks and Lincoln cars. That’s it. Lincoln could have easily died off (and almost did) but they are now making a comeback that is nice to see. I think they are on to something, even with their funky advertising. I will say that my wife doesn’t care what’s under the hood as long as it “goes” fast enough for her. If it does, life is good. If it doesn’t, I get to look for another car. I just hope this one doesn’t have too much of a Ford Flex look to it.

        1. My belief is your last sentence is spot on. But on a different level but i think i see where you were going with it. Lincoln needs to be its own label and i think they are doing it slowly. Not using altered Ford sheet me

          1. Opponents.

            Not using altered sheet metal but using their own uniqueness. Sure platforms can be shared to an extent but be very unique compaired to Ford. They are doing it to some extent with powertrains. Cadillac has been doing a good job at it for some time now. And they are pretty successful, as far as profit goes I don’t know but they have their own image and that is good.

          2. Correct, sir. Make it a Lincoln. We know everyone shares platforms, and they should, but make it a Lincoln. I think Lincoln has improved greatly over the last five years but they still have a ways to go. And, make it American and don’t be ashamed of it. Let the Germans be Germans. Cadillac is trying to be German and their sales continue to slide on their German type cars. We know GM can build a car that handles but do we all want something that will hit a G on the skidpad?

    6. I’m older and after driving the tt6, the King is dead (v8), long live the King (tt6). This IS the way luxury IS going.

      1. And the current generation of the up and coming don’t know vehicles. They just want what looks nice and fits their lifestyle. Unfortunately the muscle car crowd is becoming smaller and smaller.

    7. I hope they don’t produce those uuuggly wheels. Also, why oh why would you put tires on a pretend SUV that only have a one inch sidewall. These tires will make it ride like it has concrete in the tires and the tires are both expensive and short lived.
      Aircraft carriers like these are not meant to be fashion statements. If you really need that towing capacity and carrying ability you would never want those wierdo tire/wheel packages. With the limited sidewall they lose the sidewall flex of a radial and wear like a bias tire.

      1. I hate the giant 22″ tires and so on. They belong on a video, not the real road. I purposely bought a lower model just so I dint have to get those giant rough riding wheels and tires on our Yukon.

    8. It only needs 3 engine options for now:

      3.5TTV6 EcoBoost
      3.0TDV6 Power Stroke
      5.0 TTV8 EcoBoost

      Then add the hybrid options later.

    9. Well I see the debate has risen between v-8 and TT v-6.

      There was one thing that wasn’t mentioned between you guys is that of government mandates. Now I don’t know if Trump do away with them or freeze what they got. But my thinking Ford went with tt v-6 for the fuel mileage. Ford believes that they be able to get the fuel mileage up better than they can with v-8. I’m more less in agreement. If you have 2 less cylinders to fill then it would be logical to be better fuel mileage. Seems to make sense.

      I believe Dan bush is probably right that the customer is a total different customer to one that is buying a pick up.

      I also believe that Lincoln and ford probably did a lot of research on the customer that is going to buy this suv. And my guess the research just doesn’t support a v-8 in this suv. Probably more so in the Lincoln. Will they offer v-8 in the Lincoln? I doubt. Here is my reason. Lincoln wants to show the world that having an engine in technology advancement of this kind to be as good or if not better than v-8 to have performance on the same power as the caddy or others in it’s class.
      I believe the ford has better chance to get the v-8. Slightly different customers and not in a luxury market like Lincoln is. Here again research just doesn’t support it a v-8 in the Ford probably. And tell you the truth I’m not sure sales would make a much of difference with a v-8. There could be possible that Lincoln might offer a TT 3.0 out the Continental as option. It makes just about same HP and TQ as the TT 3.5.

      One more thing gm has been in the large SUV game for long time. I doubt Ford is going to be able to take away sales from gm any time soon. But if they pick off here in there then they will gain on gm. Like I said it will be long time. I’m sure Ford knows this. So it don’t matter if there is v-8 in it or not. Hard to break up loyalty that gm has.

      1. It is more so getting the customers they lost back, and hopefully acquiring new ones in the process.

      2. Marc, I think Ford is getting some SUV sales from GM because the old school Expedition has been selling very, very well mainly because of the power train. A major magazine rated it above the GM utes because of the powertrain alone. Now if they can deliver an updated product that has great quality, they can make a run. I doubt they will outsell GM but they can make a game of it. GM has really hurt itself with the horrible quality on its current fullsize utes. Mine is in the shop as we speak. At out ball games we have lots of soccer moms (my wife included) complaining like crazy because their Suburbans and Yukons are in the shop or that they stay in the shop. Sooner or later this will bite GM and most of the people we talk today they would have bought the Expedition but it just looks too old. Same here, we chased the newer looking eye candy from GM and have been rewarded greatly by the close relationships we have with everyone at the service department (my glass of half full).

        1. Mooning
          Here’s to hoping you get good news from the dealer in a few days. You deserve a big smile on your face. It will go along well with your friendly, even tempered personality. All your posts are a pleasure to read,keep email coming!

            1. I know what you mean, my friend. That spell check and autocorrect speaks a different language than I do. :). I HOPE we get this one fixed. It gets great mileage, rides nice, and is a good looking vehicle. I know I beat up on GM a bit but I have owned so many good ones over the years until it’s tough when the last few have been so bad. I hope they get it together sooner than later because it’s just a matter of time before it really starts to hurt them. Word of mouth, especially with social media, goes much further these days. We really have a great forum here and I have learned, and continue to learn, a lot from reading all these thoughtful posts – yours included.

        2. Sad to hear you still having gm problems. I wish well on getting it resolved.

          One of things that made the expedition stood out is the IRS reading some of automotive mags. Something gm doesn’t have. Instant TQ also plays big role. Still moondog gm has been doing it for long time. Ford has not. Ford has long way to go before they can reach what gm has in sales.

          When we was kids we used couple different suburbans towing are sled trl’s. Boy what great tow vehicle. Hate to hear you having problems.

          1. Yes, this is our second GMC in less than two years. This is our replacement vehicle. We just want it fixed. Another lesson I learned after many years of buying cars is that the resale of the GMC Yukon ias actually one of the worst on the road. Had I opted for the Suburban it would have had a much better resale value and I would just sell it and move on. We are to the point where we may unload it, buy something smaller, and then just rent a larger one when we make our beach trips. I’m really at a loss.

            I agree about the IRS – better ride to me. If that Expedition gets here soon we may consider it but if it’s going to be much longer then we may have to go in another direction. My wife hates minivans and car based SUVs. She is this tiny 5’4″ woman who likes the biggest truck based SUV she can find. It’s really weird because I hate driving it and prefer my midsize Tacoma. Women? 🙂

            1. Mooning
              Have you and your wife looked at the hemi durango. The reason I ask is because over the years my wife had two suburbans which she loved an 87 which she bought used with 37,000 miles and then in 99 she leased a new 2500 4×4 3/4 ton suburban.after the lease was up she decided she’d never lease again. She looked into buying another new suburban, but couldn’t swing the payments. So we looked at a new 2005 hemi durango and she enjoyed 8 trouble free(except tires and front brake pads) years. In 2013 she bought another new hemi durango and that one has been trouble free (knock on wood) as well. Till this day though she still says, “she misses her big suburban”. Ironically my wife also is only 5’4″ tall.

            2. I think all options will be on the table for us and I also know she likes the looks of the Durango and asks what it is every time she sees one. My 01 Suburban was a wonderful vehicle and it served us well with 6 small kids crawling all over it. Now, two are grown with another one about to leave the nest for medical school so we are getting close to being able to get by with something smaller. I will definitely consider the Durango.

            3. Wow Dan, I had a 2005 Durango with HEMI I bought preowned in 2006 and had it for 6 trouble free years with 300,000 kms before I sold it and got my RAM 1500 HEMI with MDS, 2 spark plugs per cylinder and same 545 RFE trouble free tranny. That SUV was like a tank.

    10. It’s so reassuring to know these people have fully funded their retirement accounts with IRA, Roth IRA and other pensions funds so as to be able to afford such toys!

      1. But, I do see your point. I mean no offense whatsoever by my “trailer/mobile home” comment that is coming but it is not unusual where I live to see a brand new loaded Raptor sitting outside a rundown trailer. It is also not unusual to see folks choosing between necessities and car payments. I have seen it more times than I care to. I will never put a car above home or basic necessities. I won’t even buy one if it remotely strains us. I guess I’ve learned a few things in my middle age….

    11. Well Andre, according to MSN the TrackHawk is here in a midsize SUV with AWD and 707HP 0-60 in 3.5 seconds with a V8. If it was a midsize truck I would drop 100 grand right now on it.

      There’s an option for you Moondog 707 HP midsize SUV with AWD. My daughter has the 475HP SRT 8. She had the engine overheat, but it was just a thermostat and the Bluetooth stopped working, and the tires wear out fast because they are a very soft rubber with low tread profiles but a nice machine otherwise if you can afford it I guess; is the other thing.

      1. Too much power for my little lady to be in, my friend! 🙂 We also need the three rows. I think either way this time around our GMC is on borrowed time. It really is if this issue is not worked out sooner than later. It’s time for us to move on to something else. I know some folks knock Jeep but my son has had his 2016 Cherokee Trailhawk for 10 months now with zero issues. Nothing. Not even a rattle or squeak. I bought my daughter a 2016 Mazda CX-5 and it is now about 22 months old with zero issues. Nada. Our VW GTI, no issues. My Tacoma, no issues. GMC, well, don’t get me started. 🙁

        1. Just give your wife the kids key with power limits. I think they have that technology in fca products.

        2. You look at the explorer​ moondog? You can get the TT v-6 in the explore. They just announced they are giving a refresh for 2018.

      2. It’s coming for RAM TRX , it’s probably to much for midsize to handle, but I wish they made it for you.

        1. Speaking of too much to handle, the Challenger Demon just dropped today with 840 hp in track mode, 808 in street mode, and 0-60 in 2.1 seconds. That fellas is too much… 🙂

        2. They said 575hp for the TRX. Hope that was a joke and they actually give it the 707 HP 6.2 V8. That would be my truck. Too big but I’ll take it. Still would prefer a midsize like the Jeep TrailHawk in Off Road configuration with a truck box

          1. That Demon is crazy. You have to give it to FCA, they will drop a big motor in anything it will fit in. I think if they make the TRX it will have at least 700hp.

            1. I was watching every video they released for the last​ 3 month. Many new things and technology went in to the Demon, first time to the street legal car with factory warranty to drive this fast.
              I can’t wait what FCA is going to do for us , a truck customers. They have the trany, transfer case and drive line ready to handle 707 Hp AWD.
              Gasoline is cheap, CAFE break helps too, it’s time to build it.

    12. One thing I dont recall seeing is anyone mentioning the smaller foot print a turbo V6 takes under the hood. It can allow a shorter hood line to allow more interior space and not create a bigger vehicle. The height of a DOHC engine can be taller than a OHV engine but for frontal area, the designer can shorten the front end for sure.

      1. I doubt by todays choices, that you will get anything close to 707HP under manufacturers warranty, with a V6 under the hood. Only a V8 can offer that in present day and that is where the Raptor should be at IMHFO. Plus it depends on the cylinder size as well. 8 small pistons can be smaller than one big piston and how its all put together, but good point.

        1. I agree, a 700HP Raptor would be completely bad to the bone. Maybe one day the power will be increased that high.

          1. The problem with Raptor’s soft leafs is axle wrap to handle 700Hp and huge torque. It’s impossible to get both for Raptor. Multilink rear suspension with coils RAM has will handle that without any modifications.

            1. Yes Ford will just slap it on there without adjusting anything else about the truck,….. **rolls eyes**

            2. Are you telling me, they will sacrifice the axle articulation with stifer leafs to address axle wrap ?
              *rolls eyes*

          1. You said smaller footprint. It doesn’t have smaller footprint than NA V8
            Intercooler is in front of the engine.

      1. Yea xman seems like these two can not seem to agree to disagree.
        Did I say that right ? Hell idk.

      1. Yep just seen that alex.

        Why would you need a v-8 if this Lincoln is making more than the 6.2 caddy!?

        Essentially this is a raptor engine in a Lincoln!

      2. That looks pretty good and a huge step in the right direction for Lincoln and their brand. If it looks as good in person as the photos I think they have a chance at being successful with it.

      3. Holy crap! That is 93 octane, but I still think it is about 50 HP more than the gen 1 3.5tt with 93 octane. That is sic!

        1. I never caught that. I’m sure there is a tune for lower octane, I hope. 93 is not available everywhere. But I am glad to see there is nothing carryover from the old Navigator.

    13. I think it is a pity that Ford USA didn’t adopt the “Barra” 250ci turbo 6 designed and built in Australia which put out over 400bhp and 350fp of torque. This motor had its roots in the motor used in your Falcons back in the 1960s but in its modern form under normal driving conditions returns up to 30mpg albeit when pushed that dips to as much as 15mpg. Many people swap these motors into older ftrucks as they pull and go harder than the V8s. When modified these will leave any V8 for dust and with stage 3 kits in them often see over 700bhp

      1. Well, I am not.Ford fans needs to stop posting false ford propaganda and I will stop to correct it.
        This is TFL. Not a Ford PR web site. TFL is neutral, forum needs to be too. I just said,that Lincoln would benefit from Potent American V8 and Ford doesn’t have any. I couldn’t care less what Europeans include Bentley are doing.
        FCA and GM did it​.
        707 Hp Trackhawk, 840Hp Demon. That’s America’s V8.
        New ecoboost 3.5 V6 is a good engine for Ford, but it’s not answer for everything, like ford fans like to present in here.

        1. Dude, it started with a slight mistake by replacing F-series with F-150. It is NOT propaganda. The way the F-SERIES is selling, The F-150 is most likely the best selling vehicle anyhow.
          Also, why do you try so hard to bash the EB? I swear, there is more anger about the V-6 turbo replacing the V-8 Gods (Fury Road reference) than their is American jobs going overseas. Real world power, economy, and reliability – it matches or beats the Hemi in all of them. Show me proof otherwise.

          1. Zviera
            April 11, 2017 at 4:55 am
            This would be good looking large SUV maybe, with nice interier and capabilities, but I don’t think that V6 resonates as luxury for potential North America customers. Ford is lacking luxury and potent V8 engine right now.

            Reply

            Jimmy Johns
            April 11, 2017 at 5:33 am
            That is nothing but more of your anti Ford garbage. These types of customers don’t care what’s under the hood. They want power and refinement. They want a quiet cabin, all the toys inside, comfort, and everything else that makes them feel special. Not loud engine noises, especially in the luxury large SUV group.

            I don’t think that’s civil response for valid point. There is nothing wrong to have a potent V8 in engine portfolio for Luxury SUV . Lincoln would sell more ,if they have some.

            The Fseries and F150 ford fans are mixing is classic and I am getting tired to correct that all the time. I would expect, they know, what they are talking about.

            1. Lincoln rep basically said why would we need a v-8? We have more HP and TQ to the competition and the customer is not asking a for v-8. So zviera Lincoln has basically has stated it’s Customer doesn’t care if it is v-8. Hate say this Dan bush was correct about that this is different kind of customer buying a SUV not like we are that we care what engine is under the hood. This is upper end of wealth and long as it’s makes more HP and TQ than anybody else they can could care less what is under the hood. Zviera Lincoln rep has basically stated that.
              Could they put v-8 under the hood in the expedition? I wouldn’t hold my breath on it.

              Now you guys demanding​ for a v-8. It isn’t going to happen not anytime soon in navigator. I’ve said this before the big v-8 in truck base suv in p/u’s are going to get smaller and less of them. I believe this is evidence of this.
              Why would you need a v-8 if the TT v-6 is making the same or if not more hp and TQ than a v-8?

            2. I am ok what Ford is doing with their business plan. I won’t buy Ford. If I had a demand for the full size SUV , I would wait for Wagoneer, based on 2018 RAM with V8 for longevity, but that’s just me. Fell free to buy what ever you want to.
              Ford doesn’t have a choice anyway, so let’s pretend, that no one wants a V8.

        2. Zviera –

          Apparently you love FCA products. That’s great. The problem is that FCA is not a leader in trucks.

          Here’s a 3 year old assessment of all the current half-ton pickups done in an extensive, scientific test by Car & Driver:

          http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-chevrolet-silverado-vs-2015-ford-f-150-2015-ram-1500-2014-toyota-tundra-comparison-test-2015-ford-f-150-vs-2015-chevrolet-silverado-1500-2015-ram-1500-2014-toyota-tundra-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-6

          I posted the last page which gives all the specs and test results. The RAM results were really interesting. This was a current Hemi truck, with 8-speed auto. It was the slowest truck of the test. And the Ford was tested with the old 6-speed auto and “original” EcoBoost with 365HP and 420lb-ft. The Ford ate it alive.

          So feel free to continue to state how Ford products “need a V8” in order to compete. Maybe what your brand needs is a V6, because your V8s surely cannot keep up with Ford’s turbos.

          1. I didn’t say that ford needs V8 to compete. I said that Lincoln would benefit from Potent V8 and I am not going to change my statement.
            FCA has 6.4 V8, 707 Hp 6.2, 840 Hp V8, so I don’t​ think, that V6 can compete.

            1. Nice. I like that post Zviera. Amungst all the arguing that is ridiculous. 150 posts of bantering. I don’t mean to encourage but this statement is so true.

              Time to EB the Coyote Troverman. Bye Bye V6 and once again; will be the smaller engine choice once everyone starts boosting 8 cylinders.

            2. You make a valid point that FCA can obviously tune the supercharged Hemi to some very crazy numbers. But FCA is not installing them into anything mainstream…and FCA doesn’t make anything competing in the Navigator / Escalade class (yet). They may be out of business before they do.

              I don’t think Lincoln would benefit much from a V8. If Ford thought they would, they would install one. They have several options available right now. What we are seeing happening is the V8 engine disappearing. It’s a shame, maybe Trump can change it, but most companies are putting the bulk of R&D into lighter, smaller forced induction engines. 450/510 is very impressive for a 3.5L engine that is expected to have a long life in a heavy truck.

            3. Remember Ford still has the 5.8L supercharged from a few years ago in their back pocket if they feel a big V8 is needed. I still stand by my statement that the large luxury SUV buyer as a whole will never even lift the hood to see what’s under there. They may ask how much power and the 450/500 will come out but they want a quiet, smooth power train. They are not buying a $100K luxury SUV to take it down to Midas muffler and have a pair of cherry bombs or flow masters installed so they can hear that engine.

            4. Buyers in this category are not as concerned about the V8 sound or body clearance but there will be a large number who still won’t buy a V6 regardless of HP. The sound of the V8 does not have to be loud. Many are very subtle even when floored but they still sound better then a whaling 6 cylinder. Both trucks will make a noise regardless even at the same decibel reading 9/10 buyers will pick the V8 sound with equal decimal reading. A V8 does not have to be loud to be appreciated over a whiny V6.

            5. The Ford GT is the 3.5TT and is only at 650hp and reams the competition because of its weight ratio and handling on the track with top speed over 200mph. GM and FCA still have not built a Supercar to fight against it yet. The Demon is to be put against Camaro and the Cobra Jet (which are 8 second 1/4 milers). The Corvette I believe in its next rendition will be closer to competing to the GT hopefully. FCA still does not have a Track-to-Road Supercar build (GT, Ferrari, GTR), but has plenty of Drag-to-Road (Demon, Camaro, Corvette, Cobra Jet) and Road-to-Track(Hellcat, Corvette, Gt350, Camaro) builds.

            6. Zviera the hellcat and now demon engine are nich engines don’t expect them anywhere else.

            7. JayB. 650HP out of a V6 in a light car may hold up under warranty but unlikely in a heavier truck with 4×4. They won’t want to warranty that. You get to a point where the tires break lose and you don’t have to make the parts any stronger anymore chasing the weakest link from internal parts in the engine to external all the way to the axle. The GT will break tires loose under a light weight car easily compared to a truck stuck in 4×4 with 37″ tires in the mud. Every part has to hold up under warranty under torches testing to give that warranty. The V6 likely would cost too much to build under warranty. You can get it done in a V8 that is the favourable choice umungst consumers anyway. That’s why GM keeps the V8, Tundra and Titan. Ford is the only one boosting 6 cylinders. Now FCA is boosting 8 cylinders so the V6 has no chance against Ram if they build a TRX. The V6 HO EB will be blown away like a bad fart in a hurricane.

            8. So far they seem to be kicking butt just fine, and lasting over 300k miles on 1st gen even on original turbos. So I don’t see what all the dire fuss is about?

            9. That’s not the experience All1 from PUTC has. He blow his turbos 2 years ago and bought a fully loaded RAM 3500 with Cummins instead.

            10. Jay B. I like the V6EB but they are not enough power for me. I didn’t even buy into the 504HP Tundra in 2015 when I had the chance. I want more than that and I just don’t think they will warranty a V6 in a truck with the HP I want. 600 to 650 is what I want. 707HP from FCA is even better. Where is that TRX. V6’s will only do so much and the V8’s will reign king again as they already do in the FCA compact SUV market. I’m hoping it follows to the truck market.

              I can only imagine if they add that cylinder deactivation in the 8 Cylinder under a boosted V8 then the truck will run on boosted 4 cylinders for most of the time and only need all 8 under very heavy load which might be a real gas miser which makes the auto maker all giddy and happy but not that I care.

            11. Zviera and rambro the 6.4 hellcat engine is a nich engine​. DON’T expect it will be anything else than what it is used for. I don’t expect ram to put in there Wagoner either. Ford has stated there will not be TT v-8 5.0. not anytime soon. Spy shots of 5.2 supercharged engine have been floating around. This not about weather if the hellcat or TT v-8 can out do TT v-6.

              You two are not looking at the mandates that the companies have to deal with. Now I don’t know if government is going to reverse them or freeze them at what they are, but the manufacturers still have to deal with them. (My guess freeze them)
              I mentioned this a zillion times the manufacturers are going smaller to make the mandates. I said this before that 6.2 and 6.4 is going to have very hard time to make the mandates with out costing more to do it. These are very large engines to build for cars compared to all other engines that are being built now. Even the 5.0 is considered large in the automotive industry.

              You guys have set your ways and not excepting change, but you have know choice in the matter.
              Zviera what if ram does the Samething as Ford is going to do? Then what are you going to do? Look my friend the hand writing is on the wall. The trends are pointing that way.

              Zviera I have a sneaking suspicion the 6.4 demon engine is it after to 2 or 3 yrs. I don’t think there will be another high performance 6.4 after this one.

            12. Per the link they still pay fines. Just fiat doesn’t have the larger fines yet because they were held off till 2019. But they still have to pay per the link.

            13. Marc I think it is the 6.2 that is the Hellcat motor. And the V6TT 3.5 Liter really coverts to something around 7.0L under boost. Maybe the V8 can be lightly boosted under cylinder deactivation to get that low end torque when needed and still come in with better mpg’s

              He’ll look at the actual mpg the midsize trucks got with their NA V6 motors. The heavier truck pulling a larger load with a V8 and the V6 EB got better real world mpg. Mind you on different days using premium fuel but the beat the midsize so bad I don’t think the NA V6 will beat them. Hence my complaints, that the reality is the midsize needs better engine options. Buyers know it and are forced into the 1/2 tons because of the lack of engine choice

              Through proper gearing a motor with more Hp and torque will get better mpg’s than a less powerful motor from my experience if they are both driven equally at the same rate of speed and acceleration. A boosted V8 if turboed and driven correctly and geared correctly will beat the V6 in an mpg war

            14. And Marc Hartman if you don’t believe that a boosted motor with more Hp and Torque cant get better mpg’s than look at Fords naturally aspirated V6 that Burns 12.5 litres of fuel per 100km vs the 2.7EB with the same tranny that burns only 11.8L/100km. More torque and more HP means better mpg straight from Fords website so boosting the V8 only means by all logic that the same thing will happen and their Coyote NA V8 is going to be harder on fuel consumption than a boosted V8. It also means because the boosted V8 WILL have more power than the boosted V6 that it will be geared lighter and rev even lower saving fuel once again during the EPA testing and under real world driving so long as your not racing from light to light.

            15. @Jimmy Johns
              Please , stop this nonsense. Your link is from 2015 and it says, that “Even without acquiring credits, Fiat Chrysler still would have been in compliance in the 2014 model year, the report said.”
              FCA buys credits for the future and doesn’t pay any fines.

              FCA also generates about 78% of its U.S. sales volume on light-duty trucks, compared to about 70% and 69% at General Motors and Ford, respectively.

              From the 2015 preliminary data Ford’s CO2 (g/mi) declined from 389 during the 2014 model year down to 378 — likely aided by the more fuel-efficient and lighter-weight 2015 F-Series truck with aluminum body panels. Meanwhile, General Motors has not seen a favorable move in 2015 preliminary data, moving from 390 CO2 (g/mi) during the 2014 model year to 406. Lastly, during the same time period, FCA has improved its CO2 amid preliminary data to 409.

              It’s 2017 and FCA makes hybrid Pacifica, Ford doesn’t even produce and this will help to ofset CO2 emissions to produce inspiring vehicles and engines FCA makes.
              FCA makes tons of money on light-duty trucks, where minivans belongs as well, so emission credits doesn’t mean anything. You have to look at the whole picture.

              Ford Motor Co. has ended European production of the full-electric version of its Focus as it shifts its strategy for low emission vehicles to hybrid delivery vans.

              “Volumes are not strong enough. We will revisit when the market matures,”

              Don’t you worry about FCA. They know what they are doing​.

              Their Pacifica hybrid will easily ofset all the good old and potent V8.

              The 8 speed has been design for hybrid from the beginning.
              I am sure,that new RAM will address that. We will have extra power for acceleration and lower CO2 emissions.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBcHUp4c514

    14. I think Lincoln has a winner there. Nice looking rig inside and out. I’ll bet they sell much better than the current ones.

    15. If the new Expedition looks anywhere near as nice as this Navigator we may have our Yukon replacement folks! Wow, I never thought I would say great looking and Lincoln Navigator in the same sentence but this is a great looking luxury SUV in my eyes.

        1. For sure. I do know that we are done with GM products for the foreseeable future. I have tried and tried and tried but we just keep getting crappy cars. We are pouring too much money and time into our vehicles. I just talked to my service guy and they had to order a front strut assembly and will also replace a shock and the entire rear taillight assembly buses it came from the factory hanging by a thread. The front strut and shocks went out at 3800 miles. We drove it until the first oil change service was due at around 7000 (according to the oil life – GM dealers here won’t change it early). My first thought was geez this almost sounds and feels like a busted shock but it can’t be with only 3800 miles and driven only on decent roads. I was apparently right and wrong. 🙂 They have the parts ordered and hope to have it ready by this Friday. It has been there since Monday.

          We will look very carefully at all options but I would imagine the Ford Expedition will start out as a huge favorite and we may even look at the Durango and Explorer but I think they may be a bit small for now. Size kept us from getting the MB GLS or we would have bought it. We had a Traverse before the two Yukon XLs and it was too small. At this point our expectations are low. We just want something that won’t keep us in the shop all the time. I don’t care what badge is on it. We are kind of beat down with these issues. I swear GM has a way of making these things feel like it is our fault and that we are just being picky. It is crazy but if it is us then why are we never in the shop for our four vehicles? We service them and that is it.

          1. If they make the Lincoln as loud as the Raptor I heard it will be an embarrassing SUV to be in. It’s louder than any V8 stock that I have heard and it sounds like a broken leaf blower with a rock stuck in the blades. It better be more subtle than the Raptor

            1. Moondog that will be a luxury for sure not to have to listen to that V6 HO EB. Good call on Fords part. Should of did that with the Raptor. It would be a big improvement.

    16. Since the Expedition is a blatant rip off of the Tahoe/Yukon I expect this to look like an Escalade.

      Fomoco is so uninspiring.

        1. No, it will have a Jaguar front end (like every other Lincoln) and a GM SUV side profile. They have no original designs. I guess they got tired for GM selling 5 SUV’s for every one of theirs and at a higher price.

          1. I didn’t know jaguar had front grills that the design was Lincoln emblems. So what makes the side profile like a Tahoe?

            1. On each side, they both have 2 doors, 4 pillars, glass, and sheet metal, and 2 wheels. Obviously a direct copy!

            2. Those ripoff artists at Ford I tell you! How dare them put 4 doors on a full sized SUV😂

      1. I saw some Range Rover there on but remember Ford designed a lot of those. I also see some GM influence there and maybe even some Bentley front end. Honestly, they all borrow/steal from each other. I don’t care as long as it runs well and meets my needs. I think this is a huge step forward for Lincoln and look forward to seeing the Expedition (more my style and price).

          1. Read my GM comments in some of these posts. That’s embarrassing and I’m a long term GM customer. Best of luck to you.

      1. Sounds like that Raptor engine is being put to good use. I suspect a mid to low 5 second 0-60 run. I just check this thing out in the Lincoln website and I really like if not love this SUV. This is definitely going to get some GM customers like me to bolt. Ford has had the mechanical part down for some time and now they have the eye candy to go with it. I smell success.

    17. V-8 crowed here is having terrible time with change.

      I look at trends at what the manufacturers are providing for engines. Right now the trend is getting smaller and fewer cylinders. I’m a v-8 fan like most of you guys. I have stated several times that the v-8 is getting smaller and fewer. I have stated that 6.2 is very large engine compared to all the other engines being made. I have also stated that it will be harder for gm to keep this engine around. With the introduction of the new navigator that makes about 30 HP and 40 lb tq more over the 6.2. That means caddy Escalade have to increase its performance to better than the navigator with out compromising the quality of driving it. It becomes more difficult doing that. I wanna make it clear that I’m sure gm can do this, but it becomes more difficult​ as time goes on.

      More HP and TQ over the caddy
      All aluminum body​ about 300lb lighter
      Irs.
      This navigator should be able to run rings around the Escalade.

      1. Marc you are fabricating your own mindset that V8 are losing ground. Why did Nissan update theirs along with Toyota still holding onto theirs with their update. Trucks have always offered V6 base models with the big three. Why is Ford updating their own V8 and updating their gas V10 in the heavy duty lineup. Yes Ford is throwing the V6 EB around but the Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Charger, Yukon, Sequoia, Rams, Silverado, F150’s, and the class leading above all other trucks and SUV in HP and Torque is the new Track Hawk with a boosted V8, etc, ect.

        You think because Ford boosted a 6 and got rid of an old 6.2 V8; that every other automaker now has to follow them. Seriously you are way out in left field trying to hit a ball that’s being thrown in the wrong direction and your wearing a mit trying to rub one off somewhere on some thing when Ram is holding a bat and hitting a home run that’s flying right over your head.

        V6’s are being boosted because they are boring and dated otherwise and the market is just figuring out “why not boost a V8” if it worked so well with a 6 which in turn will make the Boosted V6 the new base model once again. The V8’s are not going anywhere. Totally ridiculous what you are trying to sell. So glad Ram boosted their 6.2 to put you V6 EB power junkies in their place. In an AWD Midsize SUV to boot.

        1. Rambro, we have kind of thrown around the idea of at least lightly boosting the V8s in this forum before and I wonder why that is not being done on a bigger scale? To me it makes sense and it seems like it would take some strain off the engine with all this high tech transmission tech and get even better mileage.

          I’m already getting over 20 in our somewhat old tech 5.3 in our behemoth Yukon XL. I think boosted to add even more power means we use the gas even less for more mpgs. I even wonder why that 4.8 that is coming couldn’t be used in the Ranger (if it fits) or even boost it for the 150. I’m sure there are some on here with more technical knowledge than me that could explain but it seems that with the higher tech in the new transmissions with more gears and so on that just boosting ever so slightly a smaller V8 would yield better results. Again, we are over 20 in city driving and 25 on the road in an older tech 5.3 with 6 speed transmission.

          I like Ford’s EB engines but have heard mixed results on mpgs and wonder if the fact that the engine is working maybe harder to get from point A to B could be a reason (and with heavy feet enjoying the boost) for the mpgs not being even better… I defer to the experts and I like my tech. I like my turbo European cars and love the mpgs they give back for the power but our trucks are so heavy until I would at least like to see what a small boosted V8 would do. If something gets me where I’m going the way I want it too 6 or 8 (or 4) is not as important and things are trending that way but I’d like to see some boost on a small 8 before we say the boosted 6 is king. My $.02. 🙂

          1. The 6 got a lot of attention because of the boost and the gas finally got a fighting chance against the boosted diesel motors. They make big torque down low because of the boost. Now will will see the market saying “why not boost a V8”

            Experts will tell you that supercharged rob power to get power so you lose mpg but turbo chargers rob a lot less. I will agree with them and disagree. My take is this. A supercharged Tacoma makes let’s say 100hp to move from light A to light B in one minute at 1500rpm. The stock Tacoma has to do the exact same thing in the same amount of time but in order to do that it needs 100hp and therefore has to rev higher say at 2000rpm. This means the motor had to cycle and spit gas out 500 more times at 100hp. So the boosted motor might have used say an extra 5 hp to produce the boost but it lowered your rpms. However, the boosted Tacoma has way more power should the user need it or want it and therefore will get to point B faster hence you get mixed mpg reviews. The user can save mpg under a boosted motor in my opinion. In fact I read an article from a journalist who stated he drove both Tacoma’s boosted and non boosted the exact same way under the same time constraints and got the exact same mpg. Just the boosted motor has the power advantage if you need it or want it. The other motor does not. So if you can afford the extra gas for that extra power than it’s well worth it. Many times I know if I drive easy my motor will rev low and save fuel when I want to and it builds more torque down low for a nicer step in. The V8 will get boosted. Just a matter of waiting for the market to catch on.

            1. Great post. But, rumors still abound from TruckTrend and ALLPAR that the 5.7L Hemi is all but gone, some saying as soon as 2018. Lately our market is made up by a lot of “followers” so will FCA jump on the boosted 6 train? If so, what about GM? They already have a nice TT6 they could borrow from Cadillac.

            2. Unless something changes at the EPA and how the testing is done, we may see more smaller boosted engines. The manufacturers have to maintain their corporate mpg ratings or else they can pay fines. If the EPA let’s up or Trump forces them to let up we could see more in the V8 department. That would satisfy a lot of people because Americans love V8s. At least the older ones do. But manufacturers know, you get the next bama in the Whitehouse, the EPA could get even uglier on mpg ratings. Don’t forget, more and more people are buying large vehicles and not smaller ones like they used to. This affects the manufacturers EPA ratings.

            3. Moondog I will say right now despite any research on my part that Ram will keep a V8 option in their trucks or I’ll eat my shorts with the fresh shit stains. There is no way Ram trucks will survive without a V8 option. There sales will plummet to bankruptcy. Ram buyers are the biggest V8 fans in my opinion. For a company to go against that would be ridiculous. Their base V8 is the best in the business. Maybe they will drop it for an improved V8 and that’s where your hearing that it’s getting deleted?

            4. Rambro,

              I think you are pretty spot on with highway mpg when you compare a N/A and Supercharged engine and to an extent city driving but you have to control yourself as you mentioned. There is some parasitic loss when it come to a supercharger,even at highway speeds. Likely why you wont see them on vehicles where manufactures are trying to eek out every MPG rating. A reason behind electric power steering and variable displacement A/C compressors. Where a turbo engine has a huge advantage is the HP. A supercharger requires a lot of HP under full boost. A turbo engine does not have that restriction. Boost for boost, a turbo engine will make more HP because it does not have the parasitic loss under boost compared to a supercharger. Both types of induction has their benefits and drawbacks but a turbo engine as a whole makes the same power with less loss.

            5. Also, since it looks like the ecodiesel was an emission cheat due to the time line, I suspect after they recall all of them the MPGs will be lower. This will hurt fiats CAFE score and they will need to do something quick. They have till 2019 to get better or else they will have larger fines to pay. Zivera posted that link above. It seems weird that fiat would drop the 5.7 but it is not fuel efficient so it will hurt fiat in the long run.

            6. fiat gets reduced fines for not meeting cafe standards. So they get a break as in they dont get fined as heavily but in 2019 they get the full monty of fines.

            7. And maybe not. CAFE is not written in the stone. Let’s enjoy what we have right now. How come FCA pays all the fees​ and vehicles are less expensive than other brands ? You pay for aluminium, I pay for V8. Fair deal.

            8. Because fiat has no money to update. You would think such an old platform would be as reliable as a Toyota because its age and yet is is ranked lowest out of all trucks for reliability. That is concerning on many levels.

              So to answer your question, the ram truck is outdated and should be cheap to build by now and since fiat is doing nothing to improve reliability, they continue to be cheap to build. Fiat is by far the furthest behind in this segment.

            9. Well as long as FIAT is ahead of the Ford, I am ok with that. HEMI – no recall . 545 RFE – no recall ,8 speed TorqueFlite-no recall. Brakes-no recall.
              Multilink, air ride, 8 speed air shutters, best aero, best design, Gold Hitch Award, most powerful V8 engines on the market, Pacifica hybrid, no loan…
              I don’t know, but I feel pretty secure with FIAT.
              I don’t want aluminium, 20 cameras and another knob to steer my steering wheel.

            10. Well fiat holds the last places proudly and I dont see anyone taking that away from fiat/Chrysler/ram anytime soon. And i am defiantly ok with that LOL!

          2. I’m sure it has been explored already to turbo a V8 engine but under the current EPA raring program the V6 was better so that route was taken. However I have wondered in real world if a lightly boosted V8 would do better because you would need less boost and could keep closer to a 14.6:1 A/F ratio. Ford is already coming out with a small turbo engine with cylinder deactivation so we will see how that turns out too.

            1. That is my point as well. I just think the lightly boosted small 8 would work. Heck, maybe it will happen.

            2. I think if you boost any of the V8 with a turbo charged system you can keep the same mpg by lowering your rpm with gear ratio’s that allow you to use the same HP but at lower rpms. Combine that with cylinder deactivation and the V8 could run on a boosted 4 cylinder for most of its life which may return better mpgs. And the V8’s on TFL although on different days did do better than the V6. So I don’t agree that CAFE will hold them back from boosting an 8 cylinder.

            3. Rambro you have to remember that the EPA rating (window stickers) is what this is all about. We all have seen the GM ecotec engines to extremely well in real world driving but their window stickers are still less than Fords turbo V6’s. Those test are very specific and that is what the manufactures are going after.

              Now the thought of a boosted V8 with cylinder deactivation is an idea.

        2. Exactly. Big NA manufacturers depends on reliable V8, only Ford is exception .
          It’s just wishful thinking from some ,that V8 is dying.
          Actually modern V8 has been reinvented by all important manufacturers.
          Ford just invested heavily in ti the ecoboost, so don’t expect any useful Potent V8 from them anytime soon.

        3. Rambro
          Excellent post! many ‘mind opening” thoughts mentioned. I love v8’s myself. and I have to tell you even I feel more optimistic about the future of the v8 after reading your post. So for people like me and you and tens of thousands more just like us out there I hope were right and the v8 remains readily available. I wouldn’t even care if the v8 option wasn’t the most powerful option available in that vehicle. I would still buy it. to me its like spending time with an old friend; he always puts a smile on my face.

        4. I never said v-8 is going anywhere rambro.
          I was very Pacific that the v-8 is going to get smaller and I also said that in order to make 6.2 v-8 to make the mandates gm has to spend more money to do this. Now how long gm is going to keep the 6.2 around is anybodys guess, but if follow trends it is not looking good.

          As for the Ford 6.2 and v-10. These engines are in the HD pick ups​. We are talking half tons and SUV’s. Don’t get them mixed up. There is no mandates on these trucks.

          Yes they did up date the 6.2 in the new aluminum truck. ( Not real impressed) as for the v-10 only place you can get them is f-450 on up in the chassis cab. Last I heard 350 HP and 450 lb tq.

          I red the 6.2 is going to grow in size to 6.4. when that will happen I don’t know.

          1. A boosted V8 will get better mpg’s than a non boosted V8. Look on Fords website. Their NA motor that runs on atmospheric pressure cannot compete with the mpg’s of the boosted motor with more power. More power means less rpms which means you save fuel. A boosted V8 will have more power than a boosted V6 and therefore save more fuel at lower rpms under EPA testing

            Motors are not meant to be built around the atmospheres pressure. Without atmosphere they would not work so when you create the perfect boost that a motor demands then you can make it more efficient. Also more power means lower rpms in the combustion engine world. Again Ford proved that more HP and Torque in a V6 under boost beats their NA motor in EPA testing. More power-geared correctly under boost produces better mpg and V8’s will bring more power at lower rpm’s thus meeting CAFE requirements with the V8.

            1. Well, I disagree. It’s because Ford doesn’t know to make efficient NA engine and because the real ecoboost numbers are different than laboratory one.
              GM’s NA 6.2 has more power than last year ecoboost and better MPG in real life situation, so something is not right in here. Please, don’t take this as a bashing, but if someone knows to explain this scientifically, I wanna hear that.

            2. Zviera the EPA states the Ford boosted motor does better than the NA V6. Fords 3.5EB even beat the NA V6’s in the lighter midsize trucks in real life on TFL pulling that 7000lb trailer on the 98 mile loop.

              More power equals better mpg’s in real world driving when geared correctly and driven evenly

            3. That’s not what happened with GM’s V8 and not what I asked.
              How come GM’s NA 6.2 V8 has more power than last year ecoboost and better MPG in real life situation, TFL tested ?

            4. Maybe Because the V8 has a lot more HP and that it is a different truck that is geared differently. It’s not apples to apples and done on different days. If GM boosted the V8 with cylinder deactivation it might stay in 4cylinder mode for most of its life and save fuel. Be a boosted 4 banger with 4 more cylinders on tap when you need a cold one.

            5. GM products come with throttle lag as well. Depends on how spongy you like your gas pedal. A real spongy low rpm will have a real slow response which generally saves fuel but lacks on driver input which many buyers don’t like. If Ford leaves there’s gear set and tranny to be more responsive then you burn more fuel. Like I said, two entirely different trucks could be tuned differently.

            6. Rambro, GM also keeps their trucks a few inches lower to the ground over a F150. GM does this for fuel economy and adds that large chin spoiler many on here hate. If you ever got into a GM truck you would see that it isn’t like stepping into a mid sized/large car instead of climbing up into it.

            7. That’s true Jimmy the lower truck might do well. But what really makes GM look bad is that the new Tacoma with one of the best body clearances in the business with the same step in height as the Tacoma has a worse drag coefficient than the Tacoma. Toyota had aeronautical engineers to it correctly. Not sure if even the Silverado would cut through the wind better than the Ford? But I know it has been stated that the new Tacoma does better than that low rider Colorado. Not sure what the coefficient is on the ZR2.

              But Tacoma proves you do not need a low air dam to cut through the wind when done correctly.

            8. Good info. Makes me wonder if any of that data is online. Of course I won’t have time this weekend to look it up but very interesting

            9. Not sure if there is a list. I got it from Mike Sweers official statement

              Sweers: “Improving fuel economy for the Tacoma was one of the main things customers asked us to do. So we focused on reducing the drag coefficient of the truck and making it more aerodynamic — which isn’t easy to do when you have a vehicle that sits so high off the ground. But we managed to do it. As a result, it has the lowest coefficient of drag of any truck in the segment. And it did help improve fuel economy.”

    18. Just for general discussion, Ford has a great flat plane V8 in that 5.2 and a 4.8 to be out soon. Do we think they will use either one in the trucks? I think so on the 4.8 but understand the 5.2 is a high revving engine (that could work in the Raptor).

      1. I thought they were updating the 5.0. That’s what I knew. That’s what I think will end up in the trucks. Maybe boosted Coyote in the Raptor. If Hennessy can build it I’m sure Ford will do it at some point but it will be better under a turbo boost than a supercharged version imo

          1. Jeeses. I heard there was only five engine choices. One for sure I thought is the updated 5.0. Nothing else was mentioned for the trucks. Just V6 NA, 2.7and 3.5EB with updates to the 2.7 as well and a Diesel. That’s all five.

    19. I own a 2016 GMC Yukon Denali XL. It’s my wife’s ride. It has the 6.2 V8 and 8 speed. I’ve driven the new 3.5TT V6 Ford with both 6 and 10 speed. In normal driving conditions/under 4,000 rpm or basically anything except floorboarded the Ford 3.5TT V6 make the 6.2 feel fat and out of shape like a retired athlete that had his better days. In an all out pedal to metal the 6.2 is about as strong. But only an asshead drives like that much. I’ll take the very useful partial throttle/low rpm power of the 3.5TT V6 all day every day, because that’s how 99% of driving is done. We bought the Denali bc we both thought the current Expy/Navi looked like a stale terd even though we liked the interior of the Navi better. However the exterior looks are much better with the new 2018’s coming out. We do like the Denali just fine, but it’s not really that impressive for $70k territory imo. We’ll be looking at the new Expy/Navi hard this fall. I’m glad there is real competition again in the XL SUV segment.

      1. The boosted motor is the key ingredient V6 or V8.

        This Navigator is going to be a nice setup for this type of buyer as long as it doesn’t sound like a rice rocket it should do really well.

        1. You are up to something Rambro. I can imagine to get a light boost for HEMI with electric supercharger, when manufacturers adopt 48V systems. Some of them do that already. Extra 100 Hp from 5.7 HEMI would be possible​ and usable when needed during heavy acceleration. Instant power, no turbo lag. They could make 8 cylinder Pentastar 4.8 L with MDS and light electric supercharger.
          That would be something.

            1. Zviera the EPA states the Ford boosted motor does better than the NA V6. Fords 3.5EB even beat the NA V6’s in the lighter midsize trucks in real life on TFL pulling that 7000lb trailer on the 98 mile loop.

              More power equals better mpg’s in real world driving when geared correctly and driven evenly

    20. Recap: China, Technology, China, Dealership Experience, China, Chauffeur, China, Personalized Luxury, China. The Chinese middle class is dictating the American luxury automotive market with volume buying power. Ford with Lincoln and GM with Buick. Expect more TT6 engines, push button transmissions, wifi, heads up display and other tech because that’s what the new buyer wants.

    21. I think a Twin Turbo V8 makes total sense. That’s what the Germans are offering, and that’s who Lincoln and Cadillac are going after.

        1. I don’t understand your question. The Germans offer turbo 6 and turbo V8. I’m proposing that Lincoln should do the same.

    22. Mercy it is tough crowd at the auto show! Did you see at very end of the video that bawled man pointing his finger at another man. Yelling at him. Don’t you touch me! Said twice I believe. At last few seconds after Andre signs off. Lol tough crowd at the auto show!

    23. Marc that was me. Some F150 owner found out I owned a Tacoma and they always want to touch you like your walking the red carpet or something.

        1. It’s like what the ice cube said to the glass of water. “I use to be just like you, I wasn’t always this cool” 😎

          1. Nah, I want one that will last and be quiet wile I’m driving it. Taco for me all day every day. Been there done that on Jeep.

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