• 2017 Ford Raptor v. Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro v. Ram Power Wagon Moab Off-Road Mega Mashup [Video]


    2017 ford raptor ram power wagon toyota tacoma trd pro moab utah
    2017 Ford Raptor vs. 2017 Ram Power Wagon vs. 2017 Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro

    Which is the best off-road truck out there? We take three off-road leaders, one from each class of pickup truck, to Moab, Utah for a thorough mega mashup.

    The best off-roader in the midsize truck segment is the 2017 Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro. (In case you are wondering about the Chevy Colorado ZR2, this truck will not be available for sale or evaluation until April/May timeframe. We have not tested this truck yet.) The best off-roader in the half-ton/full-size segment is the 2017 Ford Raptor. Finally, the best heavy duty off-roader is the 2017 Ram Power Wagon.

    We put all trucks though a series of off-road challenges in gorgeous and difficult Moab, UT. Which truck performed best over which obstacles? Which tires did the best? Which truck is faster off-road?


    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    141 thoughts on “2017 Ford Raptor v. Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro v. Ram Power Wagon Moab Off-Road Mega Mashup [Video]

    1. Nice! I would take Roman’s truck but Andre’s hamburger. As far as the mud on the door handles? Whaaaay. Are you kidding, having mud ALL over is part of it.

    2. Looked like you guys had a lot of fun. That Raptor is impressive, except for the engine noise, but I guess you can outrun anybody that laughs at you. I think you guys need to get Andre some mud flaps for his truck, since he seemed so attached to the ones on the Tacoma. Curious to see how the ZR2 fits into the bunch. Three awesome machines, each with their specialty.

    3. We really need a midsize truck with more power and the ZR2 is not enough.

      Looks like a lot of fun out there, love the banter. I would still take the Tacoma if I was out there. Be a lot easier to handle throughout Moab. Mud flaps are even worse and hang lower on my 2015 Tacoma. It is annoying to listen to but they are more flexible than the 3rd gen but do keep the truck clean.

      Did not like the sound of the Raptor and it is too wide but it has the best engine, the Power Wagon is a beast of course but too heavy. The Tacoma would be the easiest to drive all day but lacks power. My dealer said he can change the tires at no extra charge to whatever I want, likely stick on the K02’s for sure.

      The ZR2 should close the gap on the lack of power in the midsize, but not enough and has better tires and maybe a better suspension than the Tacoma and the Raptor.

      Can the Tacoma outrun the Raptor at cruise speeds through larger moguls is something I would like to see.

      I think I have to come down and visit this place, nice video.

      1. Chevy needs to put their 3.6 GTDI from the Cadillacs in there.

        Although, I dont know that the ZR2 is gunna be much lighter than an F150 so it probably wont be any faster. I think they are already around 4500 lbs for a V6 crew cab Z71 4×4. I know folks that have weighed their F150’s at less than 5000 lbs for a crew cab 4×4.

        1. If they do ever put the 3.6 GTDI in there, even if its derated to 350hp/400ft-lbs or something, that would be a truck I would buy in a second. The duramax option wouldnt even be a consideration anymore.

          1. At 350HP it would be as fast as the Raptor but over 1000Lbs lighter making it a lot more nimble and therefore less expensive and the size constraints would be favourable in these off road excursions. Something I would definitely buy as long as the price stayed where it is to within a few 1000 more. The Raptor is like a 20,000 dollar premium for extra size and weight that a lot of us don’t even want. Just a waste of money, going bigger. Costs more for insurance and more for gas, more tax, more interest and harder to park.

      2. Thomas/Rambro,
        Seriously you’ve got to stop just spewing this stuff out – give it some actual thought and think about what your saying.

        There is no way in hell a truck like the Tacoma or ZR2 with at best 7-8″ of wheel travel and short narrow a-arms is going to outperform a design like the Raptor at speed, with wide 14″ long travel suspension!

        It will be more nimble, maneuverable because its smaller and not as wide, but this again will not make it as stable at speed.

        Lets think about your power to weight ratio statement? A ZR2 with 350hp will be better than a Raptor. I DONT THINK SO!

        A standard crew cab 4×4 Colorado/Canyon weighs about the exact same as a standard F150 4×4 crew cab. So if the new ZR2 is somewhat properly done for offroad with skid plates, better shocks, stonger axles, lockers front & rear, larger heavier tires, etc, it is going to gain weight – lots of it.

        My guess, very close to a Raptor in weight until GM figures out aluminum bodies, and no where near the same level of strengthening and completeness like a Raptor and not even close to 35″ tires and beadlocks that come on a Raptor.

        350hp in the same weight is a way worse power to weight ratio than a Raptor with 450hp at just about any elevation in my book!

        The only advantage i see to the ZR2 is it’s smaller compact size for tight trails and easier maneuvering at slower speeds.

        You go on and on about power or not enough for you and then rant a rave about how powerful awd cars and suv’s are but not trucks. Let’s think about this?

        A Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT or Porshe Cayenne Turbo both have 0-60 claims in the mid 4-sec range, but both are just Awd street biased with low profile high performance tires that would be completely useless off-roading. They are just awd for increased traction in inclimate weather and with the low pro tires they are a crapshoot at best in snow!

        How would they do against a true off-roading designed vehicle with 35″ tires and 14″ of wheel travel that also happens to click off 5-sec 0-60’s times?

        Take the heavy off-road tires and wheels off of the Raptor and put some light weight low pro tires & wheels on a Raptor then run it on the street 0-60 and watch what happens? Easy mid 4-sec truck!

        Yo keep either intentionally swaying the picture or just forgetting that the Raptor’s beauty is its completeness in all you get with the pkg! It could be alot faster, but its way more versatile the way it comes!

        Here’s another comparison to weigh: Roush F150 -600hp / 557ftlb

        Pros: v8 sound, decent performance, slightly better price than a Raptor

        Cons: slower than a Raptor, way less mpg, way less completeness in off-road equipment and strengthening compared to a Raptor, not as good resale, and NO WARRANTY FROM FORD.

      3. Something else to consider in this test:

        Only the Raptor lets you do something very, very crucial in high speed off road driving?

        Have 2wd High range with the ability to lock the rear wheels and no traction control!!!

        As an off road racer this is a huge benefit in say a twisty sand wash where you can use the throttle and both rear wheels spinning to bring the rear end around the corner with oversteer instead of plowing through it in 4wd understeer mode. Can you say drifting?

        Both Toyota and Dodge / Jeep have lockers but only in 4wd Low Range only. Toyota shuts off lockers at 25mph also.

        This is amazing benefit in true off road performance and versatility!!!

        1. Drifter64, I think you are a fanboy to the Raptor and the perfect definition of it. No matter what the facts are nothing can touch a Raptor

          Yet Ram already proved they can better it, the Tundra Pro beat it in the Baja and the sema truck from Honda would spank it and the Roush F150 would destroy it that comes with 650Hp packages for less money. Not everyone wants a Baja truck. A simple suspension with Bilstein shocks or better with improved approach angles and a better power to weight ratio is what is missing. The Raptor is overpriced for those who don’t need a tank that requires 14″ of suspension so that it doesn’t bottom out and is wider than a train.

          Trucks can be built faster with less bulk and in reality don’t need to be wider with massive suspension to off road and the Tundra proved that in 2015 in the Baja race.

          Now a smaller Truck does not require that your wallet be raped because you no longer need a tank to support, or require the power to move it. 0-60 in 5.6 seconds or even 5.0 is nothing special and that is the bottom line.

          Take away the bullsh!t and give me more acceleration for that price in a smaller package.

          I don’t believe in the Raptor as a true thrill seeker, sorry that that bothers you, but not really. And the high speed bullsh!t only gets you into near death experiences or situations that will destroy any pickup even modified. I like my acceleration but I don’t need to be clipping all day long. I would rather do driving in the 50mph zone tops for safety and have great down low acceleration that can break tires loose. Even KBB said the Raptor was lacking in the mud, started to bog and get stuck, too fat too heavy and not enough juice under the hood, just mostly suspension.

          1. Lets just sit back and see which one sells better- a 2017 Raptor or some abomination that you design, that doesn’t even exist and most likely never will!

            The Tacoma that did beat the Raptor was way more modified than the Raptors entered in the 2015 race. Trust me i was there in person!

            Its not that the Raptor can do no wrong- theres actually lots I would like changed. like the tailpipes that exit the rear that drag, the fact thats its dam near impossible to find one without all the gizmos and so on.

            However as an avid off road racer I respect and applaud any manufacturer that brings something this well done to market!!!

            Something this close doesn’t deserve your constant complaints.

            Notice in the KBB article nothing else went in the lakebed mud? That’s because anything else would still be there. I watched that video in pure amazement that the Raptor didn’t get barried? Who knows maybe it did?

    4. It’s always disappointing how inclines just don’t come across in print or video. I’ve done similar climbs where gravity turns on your wiper fluid squirters yet in a photo it looks tame.

      1. This happens to me skiing. Your at the top of the slope and you are thinking its straight down, then you look across the slope when you are half way down and you realize its like 30 degrees.

    5. The ZR2 should be a home run if the price is right. I agree that the Toyota needs better tires. Andre was all over the place in that mud. That is an easy fix, but adding power – not so much. Also, it could use a front locker or Torsen. The Zr2 will be ok in all of these downfalls. NAthan really struggled seeing at times. Easy fix with an aftermarket camera that could feed to the infotainment. The 6.4 needs a litle work as well. Yeah, the Raptor is crazy wide – no fixing. It is just too awesome in all of the other attributes, though.
      Kinda wish there was more uphill challenges in this video, but overall really cool to see. Well done, TFL.

    6. Just to put things in perspective…

      A dirt bike will put the Raptor to shame in ALL of those off-road categories, at one-tenth of the price. And it fits in the back of a new $20k Frontier. :p

      1. Hell, a polaris rzr or wildcat + Frontier and trailer is still probably cheaper than a Raptor. A Wildcat/RZR are animals offroad.

      2. Longboat actually makes the most since out of all this!

        Or how about a nice new SxS you could tow with the Frontier and bring a buddy or significant other and have shade and a rollcage and still have lots of $$$ left over?

    7. Wow. Power Wagon did best off-road and has a payload no other has. It didn’t scrape the nose,like Raptor did. I didn’t expect Power Wagon to beat Tacoma or Raptor off road this clearly.

      1. Trust me, the tiny selection of obstacles in the unique terrain of the Moab is hardly enough to decide an “off road champ.”

        Moab is a wide-open area for the most part, and the big PowerWagon and Raptor have room to work. On the tight trails of the East, these trucks would see considerable trail damage trying to negotiate through.

        Rock crawling is one part of off-road driving, but so is sand, water crossing, deep mud, off-camber side-slopes, steep climbs in loose gravel, snow and ice, and even rutted dirt trails.

          1. Sorry, this post got in to the wrong spot.
            I am too missing some of that stuff you mentioned and also some steep or slippery incline , where only winch could make it up there.

            1. The only thing the ram offers is a winch. The Raptor is lighter, faster, has more ground clearance at the lowest point, much better off-road electronics. The Toyota is smaller, lighter cheaper, and would be a great truck for tight spaces.

            2. Power Wagon has a solid axles, front sway bar disconnect and front locker. It didn’t buried the nose to the sand like Raptor did and didn’t make exhaust pipes oval, like Raptor.
              You missed that, but no worries I got you covered.

            3. A solid front axle in factory form is ridiculous for off roading. IFS is a much better system for complete control. IRS is even better. Each wheel can do it’s own thing. The bumper on the ram was damaged, even seen the rock dust as it was scraping. Didnt notice once where the front end of the Raptor was buried in the sand. The clear choice is the Toyota or Ford. There is nothing really special about the Ram. I would just opt for a FX4 superduty instead of the ram. More payload, more towing, lighter.

            4. Just don’t say stuff like this on dedicated 4×4 ,or offroad forum please. Solid axles has many advantages and one of them is, that cabine stays leveled and axles do the job. Especially with front sway bar disconnect and locker. With independent suspension driver doesn’t know, where the North is sometimes. You tube is your friend.

            5. actually putc ram a solid axle can make the truck move in all kinds of direction. When one tire drops the other has to go up on a solid front axle. It just as to. In an IFS system the a tire can drop and not affect the the other side at all. The rear can can stay planted because you can have less twist. All of the BAJA trucks i have seen dont have solid front axles. The solid axle on the ram is just a cheap option.

            6. For most situations a solid axle is better for cheaper, but if you spend the money on an aftermarket IFS suspension it will better the solid axle.

            1. Rambro, i was looking at some videos of rock bouncers on youtube. IFS compared to solid front axle. I will say the IFS bouncers looked they were planted much better. Both have good and bad points but i dont see any of these trucks as a rock bouncer. I still would choose IFS over solid front axle for off roading. Likely why the Rebel retains IFS.

            2. Did you?

              It all depends on what offraoding your most likely be doing. Solid axle is the best in Crawling and the IFS is the best in desert/prerunner offroading. The Solid axle has more wheel travel and the IFS has a limit but the IFS has a smoother run in a not so extreme offroading terrain.

            3. Power Wagon doesn’t have a regular solid front axle.
              It has an extra flexible joint for extra cross flex, no any other solid axle has + the sway bar disconnect.

            4. With an unlimited budget and no road regulations to deal with the IFS will win out over a solid axle.

              However, most road worthy vehicles cant have an IFS suspension big enough to match the advantage of a solid axle in many situations. So for on road vehicles both axle types are advantageous in their own way depending on terrain.

            5. Ram you wanted to compare stock vehicles and not purpose built off road trucks. A properly setup IFS like what the Raptor has and Toyota will win every time.

            1. seriously ram, double. Far from double. it is only a few hundred pounds. If one was to buy the 4 door Raptor, it would have more payload than the ram.

            2. You are correct Ram, 1500 is double 750. But the ram is only 1085 payload. And this is for a 2500 series truck. Rather absurd and ridiculous. The lowest point on the ram is 9.1″. For a 2500 series truck!. At least the Raptor has a higher ground clearance. Check your facts first ram from putc.

            3. Sorry I was wrong . I checked the facts and Raptor has just 740 lbs. payload and Power wagon 1510 lbs.
              Power Wagon is a Crew Cabin and Raptor just Super cab.

              https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-ram-power-wagon/preview/

              RAM 2500 has almost 4000 lbs payload. Are you really going to defend a pathetic 740 lbs payload ? Wow.

              Solid axle has same clearance you can count on going over the obstacles all the time . IFS not so much. IFS has very little axle flex. All the job is doing the rear axle, not the front, that’s why Raptor’s cabin swings like crazy going over the boulders. Read something about this topic in some 4×4 forums first please,
              because you have no idea what are you talking about. Start with the link I sent you and come back to me please.

            4. You are wrong again Ram, you are always wrong in putc and now here. When you actually weigh the truck the payload is much lower. The last review where the truck went over a scale the real weight was discovered. As you said the power wagon is a fat pig. 7400 lbs of fat. With a 8500lbs gvw the math is easy. Funny when you get past all the marketing junk and put the fat girl on a scale what happens. That truck will need to loose 400lbs to claim the number you want to use.

            5. I am glad you can figure out an IFS has no axle flex. But that is pretty obvious when in IFS does not have an axle. It does have 2 cv shafts, a center diff though. Completely independent.

            6. You can get a basic Power Wagon crew cabin with 1510 lbs. payload. PUTC tested loaded version .Raptor’s super cab 740 lbs. payload is pathetic. Less than half of Power Wagon.
              Yeah. Independent front suspension, hooked together with sway bar. All the time you go with “independent” front wheel over a big boulder,or incline on one side, it’s going to tilt your cabin heavily , hitting the rocks around you with every piece of the Raptor. Raptor didn’t make it without a scratch at 7:30, Power Wagon did.

            7. Haha nice try putc ram. You never tell the whole truth, just what you thing will sway your direction but as always, you are wrong. A base power wagon has the possibility of 1500 lbs payload. For a 2500 series truck at that. A base extended cab Raptor has 1000 lbs of payload. A 4 door Raptor is 1200 lbs. learn to look things up scooter because every thing you write is rubbish. LOL. I love it when I predict your every move.

              FYI the cars.com comparison showed the Raptor dominance in every category, even the slow rock crawling. They have the video up on YouTube. Aw snap, shut down again Ram from putc.

            8. Go to putc, click at the Power Wagon window sticker picture in the offroad challenge overview,
              remove all the optional equipment and Luxury Group, remove 9 speakers with subwoofer, leather, RamBox…….. and you get 1500 lbs. payload.
              Too bad, that Raptor tried and didn’t make it without a nose and azz scratch at 7:30 thanks to the “independent” front suspension.
              Here is a TFL unscientific suspension flex on slippery not flat surface.
              http://www.tfltruck.com/2016/04/suspension-flex-battle-2016-ram-power-wagon-vs-ford-raptor-video/
              All the flex for Raptor is done by just the rear axle.
              Your front independent is for high speed gravel riding, not for rock crawling and this test proves that.

            9. Nice attempt ram. You still failed miserably. You say one thing and facts prove another. Now for your famous side step.

            10. Yes I epic fail putc ram, everything I said is true and is backed up by facts. You speak from your butt. You always lose.

            11. Well, too bad you can’t get rid of our conversation and Raptor couldn’t make it without a nose and butt scratch , like Power Wagon did in this test.

              TFL doesn’t allow me to post a link for Power Wagon window sticker, but everyone can find it easily at putc. 1510 lbs. of payload without extra options. RAM 2500 has almost 4000 lbs. payload.

              I encourage you to post any fact links. This test shows you at 7:30 ,that Power Wagon is a clear winner for rock crawling. Raptor is a winner for 0-60 and high speed gravel road riding , but I don’t really care about it, because any truck can go gravel road , just slower.

            12. Ram you are now babbling like you always do when you lose a conversation. You have been proved wrong at every turn. You are boring me now because you have nothing new to offer, as usual. Bye bye now

        1. A 7000 lb truck would be the last truck I would want off road. Depending on where I’m going the Toyota would be a great off road truck. Some bigger tires and it’s all set. For a mix of everything, the Raptor is king.

          1. Well, this simple test shows otherwise. Toyota and Raptor would get stuck on the bumpers spinning wheels in the air. The Power Wagon axles articulation is impressive and has no match from the competition. Off-road truck and no winch ? Joke.

            1. Well with the ram being such a cow it will need a winch to get out of the mud. There is nothing desirable about the ram over the Raptor or Tacoma. Especially when it comes to driving over 10 mph off road. We all know you are a fiat fan putc ram and that’s ok, someone has to be but given the choice I would choose many other trucks over the red one.

            2. I am talking about a stock truck configuration. You can install portable winch on Civic and make it through the Moab.it will look like can kicked down the street, but it will make it.

              Only Raptor had a nose buried to the sand in this test drive, not Power Wagon. Impressive.

            3. Because no one needed a winch in this test a winch is not even a consideration. The Raptor just flat out is a much better truck than the ram. All three trucks scraped so no extra points there. The Raptor was faster, handled high speeds better, had no issues navigating the rocks. It was clear the Raptor and Toyota were great off road trucks for a one toll fits all score.

      2. There is no clear winner here as there was no real testing done. All trucks scraped, all trucks did what was asked of them. Your comment would be better if you said the Ram was the clear winner because it was red. This was an entertaining quick review and Roman was pretty clear when he said they did not own these trucks and they were borrowed. So they limited everything to prevent damage.

          1. yup no winner. defiantly not the ram either. it was a good thing Nathan did not hit a patch where the rear axle housing would catch since the axle of the ram is lower than the lowest point on the raptor.

            1. Raptor couldn’t make it the same path Power Wagon did, because as soon as you would hit that incline with the front independent axle with sway bar ypu can’t disconnect ,it would lift the right front corner of the Raptor and left rear corner would hit the rocks heavily.
              In Power Wagon case, the front solid axle
              tilts and cabine stays leveled.Exactly like in this video, so only way for raptor to make it at 7:30 is to go straight and it hits the nose and azz then.
              You can watch it over and over again.
              Just look, how Power Wagon cabine stays leveled and axles do the job.
              Clear winner is Power Wagon, because of no any Raptor screaming.

    8. For the “ultimate off road challenge” I was pretty disappointed not to see deep mud, creek crossings, and cross-axled twist ditch rocky ramps. Moab has all of these obstacles. I realize these are manufacturer trucks and the camera does not take in how hard the terrain is, but nowhere did we see how useful the rear (or front) locker might be, or how much suspension travel a vehicle has. All we saw is the lightweight Tacoma with average A/T tires got tossed around in the mud and was the slowest truck there. Otherwise, all of these trucks were perfectly competent at what they did, no conclusion to draw. If you listen to Nathan’s voice when he is narrating over bumps, you will hear some chops in his voice…showing how jarring the PW’s suspension is. Driving on rough terrain in a stiffly sprung truck for a long period of time is very taxing.

      The Raptor reminds me of a Humvee with its kind of low / wide look. The rear-exit exhausts look cool but are obviously a trail liability.

      1. Thanks for the comment but let’s be real. What you are asking for is trail damage. Would you really risk “cross-axled twist ditch rocky ramps” if any of these were your new truck? We’re not Top Gear or the Grand Tourer. We can’t return a truck to the manufacturer with trail damage like they do. If you want to see more of videos, please understand that we are as close to the line as we can be without risking the trucks. Sure, it would be great to thrash and trash the trucks but that’s not real world testing. That’s not what most new truck owners will do with their rigs. We don’t have that sort of budget. It took every extra dollar we had just to produce this video and bring the team and trucks to Moab.

        1. Keep up the good work. I’m sure I speak for most everyone that we all enjoy your reviews and love your take on every truck you test. Plus I enjoy some of the horse play.

        2. No you wouldnt, which is why people commenting on here and arguing over which truck is best off-road is stupid.

          If anyone does this kind of stuff on the regular and isn’t just an internet off-road wizard, these trucks would not be consideration and definately not in stock form.

    9. Great video, TFL! All three of these trucks bring something special to the table. The ground clearance of the Power Wagon definitely came in handy and the Raptor does most everything well. The Tacoma as always is very agile but I still don’t get the tires at the TRD Pro price point. It makes no sense. Maybe the soon to be arrival of the ZR2 will at least make Toyota upgrade the tires. This is supposed to be their ultimate off-road truck yet they stick the same tires on it as their OffRoad. I think maybe Nathan cheated just a little on the drag race or Roman was a bit too relaxed off the line!

      1. Toyota seems complacent. The tacoma doesnt attract me at all because it just seems like they havent done much too it in years except some styling upgrades and the engineer in my finds no satisfaction in that. Sure its decent offroad but it seems the lag in every other aspect.

        1. Jay, don’t be fooled by the similar looks of the third gen Tacoma – it is night and day different when it comes to quietness and refinement. It also has a much better interior and all the electronic goodies we now expect in our vehicle (except oddly enough, power seats). It is disappointing to see that they are unwilling to at least upgrade the tires in the off-road and Pro and that is a sign of complacency. I think the ZR2 will push them.

            1. I’m not so sure here, Rambro. Take it from me, your warranty with a new GM vehicle is your best friend. You will spend all kinds of time with it. I like this mod and think this is well worth the money but maybe only after you see if your truck is going to hold up. This makes me miss the TRD supercharger…

            2. LOL, I know what you mean about warranty, I am just frustrated with the lack of power in the midsize. Makes me mental, I just want to do something right in this segment.

            3. A company called Mallet Cars has developed a TVS supercharger kit for the Colorado which i would rather have. DI + the low end of a TVS will make for a sweet alternative to the duramax

          1. I’m not. I’ve ridden in 3 2016+ Taco’s now, a TRDsport, and 2 off road’s, and none of them particularly impressed me. The Colorado Z71 was much nicer for a truck which will spend 99% of its time on road.

        2. Most reviews never mention how good the suspension is unless they are in a Raptor. Andre pointed out how well the Tacoma was doing. No other truck gets that compliment except the Raptor in previous years. I would assume the Tacoma Pro’s suspension and wider stance is a big upgrade for something under a warranty.

          Even though previous Pro models have proven themselves beating the Raptor in the Baja, they always had complaints about ride quality and it sounds like this Tacoma is on par with the Raptor for ride quality in the desert, maybe better, but we did not get enough from this video. Maybe future video’s will have more comments.

    10. Great video and effort overall. One drawback on the Tacoma (even with the crew cab) is the tiny back seat. The Colorado/Canyon is much better. Curious if anyone has thoughts on this topic.

    11. come on, Roman, when you got to the point where the Taco was going to wipe your you know butt, you start talking safety because of a little snow… Sounds like sour grapes as when the camera was panned over the area, you could see where others had already gone through the area. Just couldn’t let the Tacoma win, under any circumstance!
      If you were really concerned about safety, you wouldn’t be so happy about cruising at 80 MPH over a dirt road. I have to think you were more concerned about scraping the paint long before you got to the really tight spaces.
      If you are really asking which truck of the 3 can get you past all that nature can throw at it on the trail, then you would have to pick the Toyota as the best as it went everywhere you took the High dollar trucks, and places where those big behemoths fear to tread.
      This was, however, one of your best mashup videos.
      Just keep on ‘truckin’

      1. Once again….Thanks for the comment but let’s be real. What you are asking for is trail damage. Would you really risk “scarping paint” if any of these were your new truck? We’re not Top Gear or the Grand Tourer. We can’t return a truck to the manufacturer with trail damage like they do. If you want to see more of these videos, please understand that we are as close to the line as we can be without risking the trucks and ourselves. Sure, it would be great to thrash and trash the trucks but that’s not real world testing. That’s not what most new truck owners will do with their rigs. We don’t have that sort of budget. It took every extra dollar we had just to produce this video and bring the team and trucks to Moab.

        1. Honestly,I am really surprised, you took it to the Moab and made some scratches. Very appreciated,because we know a little about a trucks limits and RAM did impressively well in this area, better than competition, considering, how big and heavy pig it is.

        2. It was too much scraping and damage already in this video but it sure was an eye opener for approach and departure angles. I appreciate the video, most of my comments are banter.

          I would like to hear some feedback on which truck you think handles better in the mogul’s Raptor vs Tacoma Pro at high speeds or which can cruise at a higher speed without risking damage based on subjective opinions by all who were out there at some point. I’ve been wondering for awhile now with many other curious internet jockeys as to how the Tacoma Pro rates. Maybe a ZR2 mash up with the Raptor as a baseline next time?

        3. I have to agree with you here, Roman, but I think that Tacoma would have been just fine without you guys on that narrow trail! What about the bent tail pipe? I know you try to be careful but how do manufacturers respond to damage such as that, albeit minor?

    12. I felt sorry for Andre, he wanted to continue to have fun and his friends were too tired and too big to continue. Hence, the excuses there was snow. In other words “our trucks are too big and were tired, lets sit here and play with a drone so we don’t lose this shootout”

    13. Good video! It would have been fun if Mr.truck had shown up with a new jeep and blew them all away on the rock crawling portions. Best off-road trucks are not crew cabs!

    14. I’d definitely get the Power Wagon (if it had a manual): need to make sure to get through heavy WI snowstorms to go shopping in the liquor store when it’s -10 deg F. Gotta stay warm somehow, and brandy will do it!

      =====================

      1. I agree with you, excep the manual. I was driving manual for 15 years and would never go back from automatic, especially on the snow, mud and off the road.

    15. As great as this mash up is,…..there’s a few of us out here who SERIOUSLY want to see a mash up of the new 2017 Colorado ZR2 (preferably deisel) vs. the Toyota TRD Pro! Same mid-size truck vs. those larger bad boys. I for one would like to see the new ZR2 deisel tackling the cliffhanger 2.0 challenge. Not just for the (possible) “badassery” factor, but looking to see what I should spend my hard earned $ on this year. For a mid-size it’s either the Tacoma or the new ZR2 deisel, but all we have to go by are snazzy marketing videos put out by Chevrolet. The TFL fans appreciate your honest tests and opinions and it would be helpful to see TFL get in gear and get this new truck tested! Toyota is claiming it’s the best truck in it’s class, and Chevrolet is claiming the ZR2 will go up against the TRD Pro. 2017 Chevy Colorado ZR2 deisel cliffhanger 2.0 challenge! As for this test, I am of the opinion any of the 3 trucks have thier own “badassery” element. The TRD pro however, does NOT look that “pro” not wanting to go into the dark cold scary canyon, and more importantly, with those lame ass tires! They should have went with a more aggressive tire. If I am buying a tacoma, I’m selling off those tires straight away and purchasing a tire that truely brings out the engineering qualities of the tacoma! The Power Wagon is what a real truck is designed and made for; Solid axles, locking diffs, winch, big, and it will go through anything and everything and just laugh it all off! Deffinately takes it in the “badassery” department. Drawback,…..it gets what, 10-12,13 mpg’s. Not great for a daily driver, but if I am working my ranch, that is the truck I want!

    16. Her is my thoughts

      Scenery is pretty nice out there. So I’d recommend the trip out there. Yes I’ve been out there.

      What was the price of them trucks? 40 50 and 60’000$ to scrape on the rocks seems to be very expensive fun, but I guess all that rubber on the rocks lot people do it. Don’t make sense to me.

      Can you get different wheels for the Tacoma ? These black wheels make the truck cheap looking. As for the tires probably work pretty good in the snow. Better than the others looking at them.

      1. They arent doing it in $50k base trucks though which is why this whole excercise and debate is dumb. Im sure most of the traffic through these areas are modded wranglers or older toyotas. Hell, when I go to Moab I see crews of SAS’s Ford explorers. The F150’s, Rams and Silverados are for towing their toys down there.

        1. Sorta what my thoughts are Jay. Use the expensive tow vehicles to tow there junk there to play. Agree on the whole excercise of running these vehicles over the rocks.

    17. All l can say is wait for the Ranger; it will blitz anything you guys can get hold of from a dealer at the moment for both on and off road abilities. I just hope it also arrives with the 3.5 V6 if your after the outright speed thing.

      1. They have buyers and the capability to do a Ranger with the 3.5tt but won’t do it, because they have to protect the sales of the Raptor. Full size trucks have always been shielded and protected from the low life’s that buy a midsize. God forbid they make a full size buyer at 70 grand get beaten up by a midsize truck. Goes against manufacturers policy.

        1. Oh boy here we go again – Rambro hasn’t even finished complaining about the full size rigs and now it’s time to start the complaining on Mid-sizes that dont even exist yet!

          Does this guy ever have a positive side?

          Seriously though, a new light weight aluminum bodied Ranger / Bronco platform with the existing 2.7tt makes 325hp 375tq. The anounced 2018 version with dual fuel injection and 10spd auto will make more and would make a very nice performance pkg in a midsize!!!

          Please Ford just dont saddle it down with a million infotainment gizmos? Make it real and true performance and keep the weight down!!!

          1. When it comes to SUV,s sports cars and luxury Sedans it is nothing but positive. Cadillac even has 4 wheel steering on their luxury cars.

            Trucks are basically the afterthought in the auto industry when it comes to performance especially in the midsize segment and small trucks don’t even exist anymore. There is lots of room for complaints

            The Raptor is nothing but an overreach of what buyers actually want out of a truck except that it still remains slow for a vehicle in that price category, geared for thrill seekers.

            Again the Tundra Pro proved that in 2015 by beating the Raptor teams in that the Raptors suspension and handling is overdone. The Tundra Stock teams beat them. Now if we could just get better power to weight ratios in a truck with a decent approach angles and smaller than there would be less to complain about. And yes the midsize segment always takes a back seat to the 1/2 tons and it’s a frustrating scenario to small truck buyers. Just a fact. Best thing we’ve see is the Denali Canyon and even TFL talks about it like it’s a yellow duck amungst swans.

            1. Rambro, again senseless rambling on.

              How can you make a statement like trucks are an afterthought when in fact they are the lifeblood of sales and profits to almost every manufacturer that makes them?

              To the big three, Ford, GM, and Ram they are everything!

              With Toyota and Nissan yeah they seem to be an afterthought right now.

              The only reason the big guns don’t give much concern to midsize trucks is they have a very valid argument about competing with their full size units!

              How many management/shareholders meetings do you think must take place at Ford, GM, and Ram regarding messing with their #1 profit generating platforms???

              All i know is thank God we’ve got real people that know what there doing running these big three companies right now with real engineers that know what there doing!!!

              Otherwise we would have 650hp midsize trucks with axles, frames, and brakes just strong enough to brake the tires loose and stop going uphill! LOL 👍

            2. Drifter64, all you are doing is playing on the weekends that exists and the hole in the truck segment, and you are proud of it.

              If these automakers knew what they were doing they would not listen to customers complaints, GM would not have went bankrupt and Ford would not have lost the legacy of the Bronco and Ranger. They are in constant meetings I bet, because they don’t know what to do. If they did they could sit back and relax.

              No small trucks and as usual your ignorance along with the social stigma is to run down on midsize trucks. And yes I realize the truck market is big and growing and as I said other vehicle types such as SUV’s and cars get more attention than trucks by the manufacturer and in my opinion this is a big loss for the auto industry.

            3. I dont get the whole “protecting the full size” argument. Wouldnt the OEM’s rather sell more mid-sized trucks at close to MSRP than sell a bunch of Full-sized at 20% off?

            4. Jay this is a very old argument that manufacturers protect the full size truck buyers and it was around back in the 80’s and 90’s, magazines and articles would back these claims when I would read the latest Hot Rod magazines. GM and Ford and Ram focus on the 1/2 ton and have had pissing matches trying to out do each other for bragging rights and they never focused on smaller trucks. The smaller trucks were always an afterthought. However, there is a shift happening and people want smaller now and the manufacturers still carry this bias in my opinion. They can make a truly impressive powerful truck that is light similar to the power we have in current SUV’s. The stigma remains in my opinion to keep the midsize trucks in their place below the sacred 1/2 ton, and I think they are missing out on a lot of potential customers.

            5. I actually love midsize vehicles and prefer them as a daily driver, but i use them as a secondary vehicle!

              For years I’ve driven my fully restored 2000 Jeep Cherokee 4×4. I freaking love these things and have owned 8 of them! They are just about perfect at almost everything. They’re zippy, manuverable, great off-road, great mpg and so on.

              Before this it was 1st gen Tacoma’s, but people kept offering me too much money to sell and temptation took over.

              My point is, my new 2015 F150 sits in the driveway until i need it to tow or haul something. This is a luxury not everyone has.

              If Joe consumer needed or could only afford one vehicle to do it all which would he choose a full size truck or a midsize truck???

              Let’s look at the segment leaders – F150 and Toyota Tacoma:

              Cost = XL F150 4×4 2.7 Supercab stickers for $40k bought for $30k with 3.73 gears, payload pkg, sync, Bluetooth – Tacoma much more$$$

              Power = 325hp vs 278 = F150

              MPG = F150 19/23 Taco 19/24 = Taco

              Payload = F150 1738lbs Taco 1120lbs = F150

              Towing = F150 8800lbs Taco 5600lbs in 4×4 trim = F150

              4wd systems = both have available rear lockers with traction control but F150 lets you lock in 2wd high range =F150

              Maneuverability = Taco no questions

              Resale = pretty close but I would give it to the Taco everytime

              Reliability = tie at this time both are new engines but historically you should favor the Toyota.

              Comfort = F150 seats up to 6 easily

              Safety = F150 5 star CSI crash test across the board and has trailer sway control, brake controller and more all standard

              High altitude performance = F150 Taco only makes its maximum advertised sae rated hp at one elevation – 0ft. Every 1000ft after that it looses 3%

              So here lies your answer as to why midsize truck are not as good of sellers in comparison to full size.

              Out of 12 very important categories that most if not all consumers are faced with in their buying decisions the F150 takes it 8 to 4!

              Someone that’s faced to buy a truck that’s going to be the right tool for the job 90% of the time is going to choose this path!!!

            6. Drifter64 this was not about which truck people are buying. Rather the neglect of the midsize and small truck segment. 1/2 tons can do much better as well. My 2004 Denali had ride control, sport mode for highway and soft, for extreme comfort for city driving and I had quad steer that had real advantages. Where did that go?

              The midsize trucks are the size of the old sacred 1/2 tons and pull just as much and can be loaded to those specs where 1/2 tons use to be at. Many are realizing they don’t need the oversized 1/2 ton that has grown too big and are now realizing they don’t need that capacity because the midsize can get it done.

              Buyers who have the money (and there are many from the comments I hear and I want one myself) want power and luxury like the buyers that get into 550-600HP SUV’s but they want a truck bed and they don’t want and don’t need a full sized truck as it is too bulky and hard to park.

              I think the auto makers are doing themselves an injustice by neglecting a market for the new small 1/2 ton truck. GM saw it, Tacoma never let it go but all are underpowered and lack the luxuries given to the oversized 1/2 ton segment, and that is likely due to the old bias within the auto maker and their heads are usually up their ass which causes methane back ups and farts travel up the spine to the brain; where then, shitty ideas get developed.

    18. for moab, what is better, auto or manual trans?

      Do not care for the raptor as long as it carriers the ford label. the ram is nice but that stupid box in the back with those pockets has to go as i do not need them. i will def put a shell for my expeditions and in diesel flavor for sure.

    19. Ah but Nathan there is a front camera for the Ram Powerwagon, even cooler is that it’s hidden in the Ram head front badge. the Uconnect system is one of the best features on the new Ram (or fca vehicles for that matter) trucks.

    20. @TFLtruck, @Nathan, @Roman, @Andre
      Is there any way you guys can publish a ‘deleted scenes’ video from this trip?

      This video is awesome and wholeheartedly appreciated, but it would be GREAT if you could post a video of the rest of the unedited footage from this trip that didn’t make it into the 20 minute video above. I know it takes time and resources to edit video, but I think all of us are still craving more from this phenomenal mashup – so if you could simply publish the rest of the raw, unedited, footage from this trip (again, without spending the time to meticulously edit it all) that would be incredible.

      Regardless, thanks for this video! I agree with everyone else. Such a bummer the Taco doesn’t have legitimate tires…it looked pretty sketchy in the mud.

    21. The mud was dusty dirt (or caliche here in s. tx) lightly wet. It’s slick as grease. The heavier vehicles have the advantage of weight here. It’s really not the tires.

      1. The advantage of weight and front traction control (torsen raptor and lockers ram). HUGE difference. The little Tacoma with IFS and no front traction control equals fail in those conditions.

        1. The locker should not be engaged at those speeds so I doubt he had any lockers on. Vehicle will just bind and push itself out of the corners in mud like that with a locker. You don’t want it on. Torsen or regular 4×4 is what you want on.

      2. Yes the mud here in Utah is never very wet, even up north, but it has the consistency of peanut butter. It does not clean from the tires well at all and stick to everything. Once it dries its like concrete. my cousins driveway is 4 or 5 switch backs up a mountain and even with duratracs and a rear locker I have trouble climbing it in my F150.

        1. Jay,
          Please explain to Rambling Bro aka Rambro why you DO WANT A LOCKER in mud?

          He’s never at a loss for words but he is missinformed especially of 4wd systems.

          1. Drifte, the mud they were in was high speed driving that won’t allow the PW to be in 4 wheel lock. It is only for low range 4×4. And it’s no good for high speed corners as the binding affect pushes the front of the truck into the ditch.

            1. Rambling Bro,
              That totally depends on the vehicle you are in and if you can lock the rear wheels in high range??

              If I was in deep slippery mud and I wanted to make dam sure I did not get stuck – kind of like the high speed mud drifting they we’re doing on that lake bed in the KBB article I would definitely do the following:

              1)Turn off all traction control systems – this assures that you can have wheels spinning to carry momentum and try and clean out the tires as much as possible

              2)Engage rear locker and 4wd high range

              3) Throttle down because mud sucks every last ounce of it up!

              So what do you notice about this scenario?

              Only one of these Offroad focused trucks lets this happen and it’s built this way for a reason! Real racers and engineering teams that race are running the show on the Ford Raptor Team!

              The Raptors both 1st Generation and now this 2nd Gen are the only OEM’s that know what there doing enough to allow the lockers to work independently because they’ve been in these same scenarios just as I have in a race! You need wheel spin and you for sure need to make dam sure they are all spinning! There’s no binding going on whatsoever in deep sloppy mud with all your wheels spinning!

              Don’t believe me? Go rent a Polaris RZR for a weekend and take it out to your nearest mud pit. Put it in 4wd and all the wheels spin – both the front and rear diffs are locked, and see how easy it is to turn!

              Then take your Tacoma through the same mud pit with its locker that only works in low range, shuts off at 25mph, and over protective traction control and see what happens???

              With all due respect, there is so many desktop Jockeys like yourself that know it all from the Internet, but have never really driven in these type of conditions, or deep down just don’t understand how all of the different 4wd systems work. It makes me want to waste all this time defending what is fact and what is fiction!

              I’m sorry you and I go back and forth so much your probably a great guy, but I can smell bullshit from a mile away!!!

            2. Drifter64 you sound like a guy that just wants to dish out information without looking at the facts to make yourself pump your own chest and the traction control can be completely turned off in the Tacoma by holding the traction control button for five seconds when your stopped

              I originally stated the locker was likely not on. It is also speed limited (the locker) in the Power Wagon My other comment is about turning at speed on corners with your lockers on pushes the vehicle into the ditch which is a fact no matter how slippery your surface is. You on the other hand are talking about power cornering where your wheels are spinning out of a curve donut style; then a locker is an advantage as the front tires are pulling the vehicle forward. However, at high speeds when you come into a corner fast you have to be slowing down and not accelerating and this is where the locker is going to put you in the ditch.

              I don’t know why you have to take things to your own exaggerated level, you think you would have left that juice in the mud.

            3. I would agree that a front locker wouldnt be ideal at speed. Thats why the Torsen in the Raptor is a great choice. It’s always on and lets you turn easily, yet still pulls with both tires as long as you dont lose all traction to one.

              Climbing a muddy, steep, switchbacked driveway I would want a front locker or LSD to keep me moving forward and to help pull the front around the corner. I have troubles making the corners in my F150 with the open diff because the inside wheel starts spinning and doesnt do anything but lose traction and allow the front to plow.

              My subaru Legacy GT spec.b had an open front diff and and a torsen rear, but that thing used to come out of corners plowing doing a one wheel peel in the front. That was on pavement. It’s 10 times worse in mud.

    22. I’ve gone back and watched this several times and while Andres Tacoma made noise when touching the mudflaps it didn’t leave big gouges in the rocks like the Raptor so it should have won that segment.
      By the way, if the Raptor had mud flaps, maybe you wouldn’t have the problem with mud in the door handles.. Just sayin!

    23. If the raptor had more ground clearance then it would not perform the job it was intended to as well as it does. The raptor is intended to go fast over bumps and handle well doing it. If it had a high cab and high center of gravity it would be wobbling and rolling all over the place and wouldn’t perform. If it was about rock crawling, ford could have taken the easy route and just put a lift on and regular F150, but then it would not perform everywhere else.

      The Taco and Ram are are just that, factory lifted trucks. Taco Pro adds an inch to the already semi lifted TRD offroad. Anyone can do that on any Taco with a simple level and it would do everything this truck did. Fox shox are not even that expensive of an upgrade, and the aftermarket ones are fully adjustable. The powerwagon is the same but at least Ram does do us a favor with the front locker and sway bar discos.

    24. Are you guys at TFL going to put the Raptor up the 2.0.? Maybe bring the taco and PW if you can for comparison? More of this can’t be a bad thing.

      Just make sure the Tacoma goes first so it doesn’t get stuck behind any broken down Fords or Rams 🐑

    25. I agree with what @Ben said!!!

      “@TFLtruck, @Nathan, @Roman, @Andre
      Is there any way you guys can publish a ‘deleted scenes’ video from this trip?

      This video is awesome and wholeheartedly appreciated, but it would be GREAT if you could post a video of the rest of the unedited footage from this trip that didn’t make it into the 20 minute video above. I know it takes time and resources to edit video, but I think all of us are still craving more from this phenomenal mashup – so if you could simply publish the rest of the raw, unedited, footage from this trip (again, without spending the time to meticulously edit it all) that would be incredible.”

      1. I doubt it Steve J. They are not going to actually show the Tacoma pulling the Ford and the Ram home. Wouldn’t be fair to Ram or Ford.

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