• 2017 Ford F-150 Ike Gauntlet Towing Review: How Good Are the New EcoBoost and 10-Speed? [Video]


    2017 ford f-150 10-speed ike gauntlet towing test review
    2017 Ford F-150 10-Speed Ike Gauntlet

    How does the 2017 Ford F-150 do on the Ike Gauntlet extreme towing test with the 2nd-generation 3.5L EcoBoost V6 and the 10-speed automatic transmission? You are about to find out!

    The EcoBoost lineup of truck engines has proven to be very powerful and not particularly efficient in real-world use. Ford continues to improve its EcoBoost engines by making them more powerful and more efficient. The 2nd-generation 3.5L twin-turbo V6 in the 2017 F-150 use twin fuel injection (port and direct injection) to make more power than ever. This engine is now pushing out a class-leading 470 lb-ft of torque. The twin injection system is also supposed to improve its fuel efficiency. The 10-speed is the other component that’s there to improve efficiency and acceleration. Check out the 100-mile towing MPG loop video.

    This is the second in a series of 2017 Gold Hitch awards towing reviews.

    2017 Ford F-150 Crew 3.5L EcoBoost V6 4×4 Platinum

    • Engine: 3.5L V6
    • Power: 375 @ 5,000 rpm
    • Torque: 470 @ 3,500 rpm
    • Transmission: 10-speed automatic
    • Rear Axle Ratio: 3.55
    • Max Towing: 11,500 lbs
    • Max Payload: 1,710 lbs
    • GVWR: 7,600 lbs
    • GCWR: 16,500 lbs
    • EPA-estimated Fuel Economy: 18/23/20 mpg (city/hwy/combined)
    • As-tested Price: $63,595

    All half-ton trucks are hitched up to the same 9,000 lbs enclosed CM Trailers 20-foot CargoMate trailer. We always use water for ballast, and set up the tongue weight between 900 and 950 lbs. We calculate the tongue weight at approximately 10% of the combined trailer weight.

    Downhill

    We test downhill performance by starting the 8 mile downhill at 50 MPH (which is the speed limit inside the tunnel). We use the tow/haul mode (and exhaust brake if equipped) and let the truck do its thing. If it accelerates past 60 MPH, which is the speed limit, then we apply the brake firmly to slow down to 50 MPH. We count the number of time we have to apply the brakes in this fashion. Every time we touch the brakes on the way down, the truck looses a point.

    Uphill

    We time the truck on the way up (8 mile stretch of the interstate on a 7% grade going from around 9,000 feet to 11,158 feet of elevation). We also take note of the truck’s average MPG as reported by the trip computer. The benchmark time is 8 minutes. This assumes that the truck accelerated quickly, and maintained 60 MPH the entire way up the hill. Every 5 seconds over the time goal subtracts a point from the truck’s overall score. The benchmark MPG number is 6.0MPG. Every 0.2 MPG below that, and the truck looses a point.

    Subjective

    Each reviewer that participates in the test is given a maximum of 25 points for their subjective opinion. These scores are averaged and added to the downhill and uphill objective scores. The final score is stated out of maximum possible 100 points.

    As always, we invite all pickup truck manufacturers to participate in every part of the Gold Hitch award testing. This year’s half-ton class is comprised of the following:

    2017 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 6.2L V8 8-Speed

    2017 Ford F-150 3.5L EcoBoost V6 10-Speed

    2017 Nissan Titan 1500 V8 7-Speed

    This is one of the times when we are selling TFLtruck / Ike Gauntlet merchandise. We always appreciate your viewership and support.

    Get all the details and the final Ike Gauntlet score in the video below.


    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov
    Andre Smirnov is an Automotive Enthusiast, Producer, Reviewer, Videographer, Writer, Software Engineer, Husband, Father, and Friend.

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    278 thoughts on “2017 Ford F-150 Ike Gauntlet Towing Review: How Good Are the New EcoBoost and 10-Speed? [Video]

    1. I sure hope you guys are not being swayed by all these fancy gadgets on these top of the line models (remote tailgate, butt massagers?)

      1. The trucks STILL seem to get double penalized for breaking as Mr. Truck showed with his subjective score.
        The subjective score should be ONLY non-quantifiable aspects of the towing such as ride comfort, handling, and ease of use. The number of brake applications, time up hill, or MPG should NOT be considered on the subjective score.

        1. Exactly !!!
          Drives me crazy when the trucks subjective scores bring in the same performance catagories that were already specifically scored.

          Subjective score should be things like looks, seat comfort, ergonomics, available features, length of warranty, resale values, about anything other then what was just tested.

          Glad I am not the only one picking up on that.

          1. I agree as well. So far the subjective score has been a waste of time. Make it worth while, not a duplicate of what has already been measured.

            Brake applications aren’t as important as time and mpg. It should be counted for less.

            1. Distinctly and others, these same complaints were made last year and are still not addressed. I agree, the subjective score needs to eliminate what has already been scored. You can’t give it a lower score like what Mr Truck did, saying the breaking was poor, as points are already taken from that. They need a subjective criteria that does not include any parts of the list already being scored IMHO

          1. No, the RAM didn’t have the power to get out of 1st gear when the hill got step. The Chevy buzzed up the hill in second gear, so was a lot faster and safer.

            1. I believe the power is there. The stupid tow haul won’the let it upshift!

              But Ram doesn’t pay attention.

              They need to fix that, and put the 8 speed in the 2500.

        2. I agree. It’s a double hit. Ride, handling ,tow mirrors. Noise of ride. That’s subjective. The rest took points off already.

      1. I’m curious if the transmissions is still “learning” your driving habits. Wonder if the truck would act the same after a couple hundred miles. The other variable is Ford’s grade braking is based on the amount of braking the driver is using. I’d be willing to bet a quicker application of the brakes would yield different results.

        1. There is a “learning” time in the calibration. Most of my Ford products that I use for towing had it. Even my Edge. It got to the point where once you started going down hill it would downshift and even hold it there for some time in anticipation of the next hill. I like it because I don’t like it shifting all the time.

        2. That’s true of every truck they test. The adaptive shift algorithm is constantly adapting to engine operating conditions and driver habits, as well as transmission performance.

    2. Did anyone else notice that the engine was at 3K rpm up the hill and not at red line like most gassers. Very impressive.

      1. Jimmy, I was very impressed by that. Always a fan of the EB but I really want to see an EB-V8. That will be the Cats ass, the ducks quack, the bees knees, the bullfrogs beard, the leopards stripes, the lions tale, the snakes hips, the cuckoos chin………

        1. agreed. I think a turbo V8 could be very fuel efficient because it would be “on boost” less or at a lower level to reduce the time the A/F would be richened up. Plus, it would sound killer.

    3. Sales brochures for 2017 f150 suggests 470@2500rpm for 3.5 ecoboost. I think the 3500rpm for max torque is for the high output Raptor.If someone could clarify this it would be great. You guys are awesome

      1. Its 3500 Rpm for max torque. Since the truck ran at 3500 rpm and we know the torque at 3500, we can calculate how much of its HP it was using:
        313 out of 375.

      1. XLT’s do the same thing for a little over $40K. You don’t need luxury to haul. In fact, you would get a slightly higher payload too with an XLT.

        1. You would be about 45,000 + with the 4×4 crew xlt 3.5 eco, with equipment package 302. Really easy to be at 47 k.

          You probably need a warranty with this much truck, or just keep an unused credit card to use just in case.

            1. For what,an extended cab, with wrong way doors?

              True, nobody pays MSRP, but 47,000 (over 1,000 for destination included, which maybe some folks are not adding in.) For an extended cab, not quite as good as a Ram quad or Tundra Double cab.

              That is a fairly low option truck.

              Apples to apples.

            2. I meant 47,000 MSRP for the 302 crew, 42k for extended cab.

              Lots of money, even after you take off 5 – 7000 dollars.

            3. Plus, your purchase price might drop the amount of sales tax, but the insurance and personal property tax will still be the high based on trim levels and equipment.

              You still pay a lot.

              You can, I won’t, I’ll spend it elsewhere.

      2. I hope you dont think that the 3.5 mpg is on a flat road. That 3.5 mpg is climbing up the steepest grade in the US towing 9000lbs. The uphill mpg should not matter at all. It is subjective to the trucks ability to pull up hill and maintain speed. More power to maintain speed the more fuel it takes to do the work. If the truck does not have the power and runs slower, the less fuel it would take.

          1. One more minute is nothing to worry about , not to mention half the price, much better MPG and less expensive fuel.
            What bothers me is 10 brakes applied downhill even when in towing mode. Ford engineers don’t think of this vehicle as of the truck,but racing car. Very disappointing approach.

            1. Its a brand new trans, its going to be a few years before its all figured out. You want less brake applications go buy a 2016 f150! still went down the hill nicely, but there is clearly some room for improvement on the grade breaking for ford. Otherwise a perfect truck.

          1. I am not in a hurry. I am thinking to buy a used one or wait a month, but I’d rather get a Power Wagon.

    4. I own and absolutely love the 2015 Ecoboost. Grade braking is the only time I know it’s a 3.5 liter V6. All other towing aspects are done so much better than a V8 that I can easily live with a few more brake applications. Gobs of torque at a useable rpm is the Eco Ecoboosts claim to fame. To those complaining about the price, the Ecoboost is available in almost all trim levels, unlike Chevy only offering their premium motor to the top couple trim levels. 3.5 mpg on this extreme of a test isn’t surprising to anybody familiar with the test.

      1. most gas engines dont have a turbo to use an exhaust brake. I guess you could install a valve in the exhaust to act as an exhaust brake though.

    5. Editing on this video was better than ever. Great job, TFL crew.
      I expected the F-150 to get poor grade shifting, even with the extra gears.
      The truck was never above 3600 RPMs. That is amazing. Also, it was interesting that the truck only squatted 1 1/2″ whereas the 5.0 from last year squatted 3″.

    6. They need to find tougher hills with the modern half-tons or just increase the load weight hauled by half-ton. Maybe make the standard weight 12k for a 1/2 ton and every 100lbs below the 12k that it can legally haul you lose a point. Then load to the max on the capacity.

      That load never even made the ecoboost sweat or work very hard at all.

      1. Some hills run for 40 km in the West maybe longer. Do you want to be doing break application for an hour straight coming down the hill in a half ton with a 12,000-lb trailer. The 1/2 tons are too light in my opinion to safely pull those loads anyway. Too many situations where the trailer will own the truck.

        1. Ever since the aluminum F-150’s debuted, they have been too light. A sub-5000 on truck with soft suspension tuning and electric power steering gets pushed around by a heavy trailer. Not a big deal for short trips but tiring on long hauls.

          1. Tiring because your alertness is on overtime. One tiny mistake and that trailer is taking you for a ride. Way too heavy for the truck especially for those without a commercial licence. It’s just getting too tricky for an average driver that is a common place vehicle to be regulated to pull that.

            1. Agreed. I’m an experienced RV/tow. Just moved op to a SD due to the weight of the 1/2T. My 16 EB was getting pushed around too much. Unloaded, or with a lighter load it was awesome. Fully loaded w/ a moderate wind a real handful. Tired of the death grip.

            2. I have heard of a lot of folks coming from Pre-15 F150’s to the 15+ F150’s and being disappointed with how it handles trailers.

              I mean my 2014 weighs 6200 lbs without me in it. The new ones are not even close to that.

    7. This is far from the hardest tow test.

      Let me suggest same hill at 100 degree temp. With air conditioner on.

      That would test the high stress created by turbo heat. Heat exchanger would also be stressed, possibly to the point that HP would need to be detuned by the computer.

      I sure hope that at the very least all other trucks are tested with windows up and air conditioner OFF!

      Cold humid air would definantly help none turbo engine also. Especially at high altitude.

      Did the poor mpg come with premium fuel?

      1. The poor fuel economy is inherent to the ecoboost. Ford tunes the engine to run out rich when you have your foot in the throttle. The only time you’ll get close to the EPA numbers is when you’re safely out of the boost and lugging the engine at 1100 rpm.

        1. 1100 rpm is good for 58 mph with the detuned 3.5L, 6 speed, in a 15 seater, All-steel, mid-height, long wheelbase wagon. I would Imagine 1100 rpm in a ten speed Aluminum full power 3.5L pick-up would be good for 65 mph, I would not call that “lugging.”

        2. This is non-sense. Mine hits EPA numbers no problem here in the mtns of Utah and its the worst case scenario, 2014 Supercrew Longbed with 3.73s that weighs 6500 lbs with the cap. My commute to town everyday consists of a few 5-7% grades, so I am definitely in boost a decent portion of my drive.

      2. remember winter blend fuel you always loose power and mpg’s. I always loose around 2 mpg during the winter and using winter blend fuels. Summer blends offer better power and fuel economy. So i hope they test all trucks using winter blend fuel to make the test equal.

      3. modern variable displacement A/C compressors have very little parasitic load on an engine compared to the old compressors. This allows for less heat to be generated and thus needed to be cooled via the condenser. On a 100°F day engine or cooling system is taxed that much anymore.

    8. Scott,
      The truck was in 5th out of 10 gears at the bottom of the hill and 3000 rpm at top for 3.2 mpg.

      I call that stressed. It was above its max torque rating.

      I might be old school. But high rpm is for the race track not towing.

      Try this truck on some of Colorado’s two lane, hairpin, high altitude mountain roads. On a 100 degree day.

      What kind of lag would you expect at 10000 feet on a 100 degree day coming out of a hair pin turn?

      Try coming out of Kings canyon National Park on a 100 degree day.

      Well actually be brave. Try going into the park towing a trailer.

      I wouldnt do it with any automatic transmission.

      That’s the kind of towing I do.

      I don’t move often enough to require a moving truck. Lol

      1. dont agree. They could have accelerated at any point and time and run at partial throttle. It wasn’t wound tight and did it easily. All that power does take fuel just like a diesel HD that pull 15k in the past on there test. They do it pretty easy as well but get similar mileage.

        That wasn’t even stressing that ecoboost on the way up.

      2. max torque is rated at 3500 rpm. Shy of it’s max torque rpm. Max HP is at 5000 rpm. The Ford select shift transmissions i feel are much better than any manual transmission. You have absolute full control of the transmissions gears as long as it does not cause it to over rev. Then you have the ability to have a torque converter to allow you to “slip the clutch” hydraulically vs actually slipping a friction clutch.

        1. Jimmy Johns – – –

          ” …i feel are much better than any manual transmission.” Any? Really?

          I’d like to see how well that delicate 10-speed automatic stands up after 10 years and 100,000 miles of hauling 9,000 lbs routinely up and down the Ike Gauntlet at extreme temperatures. There would be no question that any good manual would have NO problem with that.

          If you were to compare “apples to apples” (which is impossible here), then let’s hypothetically look at a properly geared 10-speed Eaton Fuller manual in that Ford F-150. Yes, it would be a custom application that doesn’t now exist. But I can guarantee that there would be no trouble holding constant speed with NO brake applications coming down the Ike Gauntlet. Ask the semi drivers, who have precisely that transmission, — but with 60K-80K lbs to hold back (yes, with exhaust braking too)!

          People don’t get manual transmissions nowadays because:
          1) They are not offered by full-size truck manufacturers (except Ram 2500 diesel);
          2) They are not demanded by truck buyers, who even when they ask for them, fail to follow through with an actual purchase (!);
          3) They require skill and experience to “work” properly, and many drivers nowadays are too lazy, ignorant, too distracted, and/or incompetent for acquiring that;
          4) Manuals that are offered in the mid-size classes are often assigned to lower trim models, which are also more poorly optioned, so they are not as readily bought;
          5) Modern EPA pollution regulations and fuel-mileage requirements can be more easily met with some automatics, so car manufacturers are tempted to go that way. But this is NOT universally or necessarily the case for trucks.

          In general, here are some advantages of manual transmissions:
          1) More robust, durable, and longer-lasting;
          2) Less expensive to buy;
          3) Superior driver involvement**;
          4) Owner-doable oil change, which is also less frequent and less expensive;
          5) Requires no separate cooling system with its own radiator;
          6) Wear item = easily replaceable clutch (not the whole transmission!);
          7) Superior traction in slippery snow, by “feathering” the clutch;
          8) Almost air-tight theft protection.
          9) Less Opportunity for Distracted Driving >> Safer.

          ** A vehicle with an automatic offers typically 40% less opportunity for driver involvement than those with manuals.
          1) Number of Driving inputs with typical Manual = 5 (steering, gas, brake, clutch, shift);
          2) Number of Driving inputs with typical Auto = 3 (steering, gas, brake)
          Deficit = 2.
          Therefore, percent that Auto Trans is less involving = 2/5 = 40%.

          =========================

          1. Todays automatics are much better than a manual transmission. The Allison automatic and torqshift series of transmissions are pretty much bullet proof. A 10 speed is not a delicate transmission. That is just hog wash. If you were to actually place your hands on the components and had data to go off of you may understand. But sure a manual is fine but an automatic is much better. Why do you think Allison does so well in the medium and heavy duty market. I do not know where you came up with your list but most of it is incorrect or just a weird statement. If you like manual transmissions that is just fine but they have been replaced by automatics and they are far more efficient than they ever have been. And much more reliable.

          2. Manual vs automatic.
            My daily driver is a manual,5 spd Diesel. I enjoy driving it. In my small town of 400,000, the truck seems like an extension of my mind. However driving that same pick-up in Houston or Austin is a different story. Covering 600 miles in a day cross Texas with a manual, juggling gps inputs and other expected connectiveness of todays instant communication world, no way. Heck I want an “autopilot” Tesla style. And i’m not alone among Truck guys.

      3. How is 3000 rpm stressed? Peak torque is 3500 rpms, and peak power(hp is what climbs hills) is at 5000 rpm.

        What RPM do you think an Ecodiesel would be at? Or a Nissan Titan XD? I bet they are both right there with the Ecoboost. What about a NA V8? 4, 5, 6000 rpms?

    9. Imo it would be nice if tfl would hook up a gooseneck trailer to these 1/2 tons with 9-12k lbs and run them late July or early August when it is 100 degrees or hotter…

    10. I have a few issues. There should be a ratio penalty for the price of fuel vs the base regular fuel price. The Ford and the GM 6.2 have an advantage with a better fuel, same goes for diesel. Also as MNTNMN said the computer takes awhile to adjust from premium to regular so the mpg would be off if regular fuel was in the tank. Also, we still don’t know if you guys put premium in or not and was the tank empty when you put premium in. Otherwise you just have a cocktail mix of regular and premium. These are all valid. Also, the other trucks will be under high rpm and many of us believe the computers are not accurate. Why can’t you do a fill up upon return and check the avg mpg for doing the loop up and down. I’m not really interested in what the mpg is on the computer as I believe it is not accurate when pulling like this.

      Also as many complained last year I think the points on the way down for breaking is too harsh. But then again it would be pretty bad if your breaks overheat. I can only imagine this Ford with 12K lbs behind it might melt the breaks right off the axles. No thanks. It already had 10 with 9k lbs.

      For those complaint the test is not enough than try to find another relevant auto journalist that does a harder one; is all they are saying. I’m sure anyone if they want to can make a tougher personal test. All the power to you. Still doesn’t change that this is the toughest truck test available by a relevant popular auto reviewer.

      I like the decibel reader. Please keep that up. Very relevant. Be nice if you record the tire pressure for each truck. That makes a difference as well. While your going up it would be nice to see more technical features in each truck.

      And there should be a point system built in for trucks that can pass with a load. Maybe do a 0-60 with a loaded trailer and add a point system for that. I don’t see the Ford getting any extra points for it’s ability to pass for all the reserve power it had.

      1. Every modern gas engine benefits from premium, even the GM 5.3 and Ford 5.0, even though regular 87 octane is the “recommended” fuel. Modern engines all have fuel maps, VE tables, etc, that maximize power and efficiency in real time for the fuel it’s being fed.

        1. Thats actually not correct. If the programming is for 87 octane there is no tune for higher octane fuel. It runs at the programmed calibration level. The knock sensor will adjust timing for any knock. But if there is no knock it will not back off timing. It will run at the calibrated air/fuel ratio and timing tables.

        2. Well this should all be verified by TFL and told to the readers and viewers. Fuel type varies and I don’t think anyone can be sure the computer is reading the consumption right under extreme conditions for such a short trip.

        3. Actually, Erikthered, what TFL should do is put down how much it cost to go up the hill. Why are we giving points for mpg? I’ll answer because we are looking for the cheapest option by looking at mpg. When you start mixing fuels into one test than you have to look at cost. Make the point system based on an average price of fuel throughout the year. We don’t even know if regular was in the tank before they put the premium in. Makes the final results less interesting when you have to work these unknowns out for yourself.

      2. Rambro – – –

        “Also, we still don’t know if you guys put premium in or not and was the tank empty when you put premium in. Otherwise you just have a cocktail mix of regular and premium. ”

        Good catch. I was wondering about that myself. Perhaps a suggestion that we could offer is to ask TFL to use test trucks with near-empty fuel tanks (siphoning them if needed), so that they would start with a known fuel brand at a known octane rating, at the listed price, — and no significant mixing would be allowed. Yes, I know: if siphoning was needed, what are they going to do with several gallons of unwanted fuel? ANS: use it up in personal vehicles, or sell it for snow blowers or lawn mowers to help support TFL, of course! — like the new T-shirts (^_^)…

        ======================

    11. Fourloko

      I suppose you have never heard of water injection. It reduces intake air and combustion temp while also increasing effective compression ratio. Also less pinging so more advance can be used. New engine computers can read all these changes and adjust for more power.

      Somewhat like a steam locomotive works. Convert water to steam and you get power.

      Take a non turbo low compression engine out on a cold rainy day. The increased power is undisbutable.
      You don’t need a dyno.

      On a turbo, cold humid air decreases intake air temp much better than hot dry air. The heat exchanger is much more efficient. The result is higher possible hp output.

    12. Scott,
      I agree a lot of people don’t think 3000 rpm us stressing modern engines in some ways they are correct.

      But in one important way they are wrong.

      I measure wear by total number of revelutions. The fewer revs. The less wear.

      I question as to weather that Ford could ever pull that load in over drive.

      The transmissions I measure by number of up and down shifts.

      1. Remember you can wear out an engine even faster with low RPM’s under load. Especially the pistons. Under high load and low rpm’s you run the risk of the piston skirt wearing on the cylinder from being side loaded to much. This is why you see a deep skirt piston with diesels and even the ecoboost engines have a longer skirt design to help from the piston getting side loaded to much. It spreads the load evenly and allows the oil to do it’s job by providing a barrier between the piston and cylinder.

        1. Good posting Jimmy johns. This is why the ecoboost is said to be stressed here. Obviously engine is designed appropriate. These trucks have boost gauges yet?

    13. Rambro,

      Great many roads worse than Ike.
      Baker to Las Vegas in 122 degree heat and bumber to bumber traffic. Stop and go at times.
      80mph at other times.

      I5 up the grapevine during the summer heat.

      Grosser grade out of Maricopa.

      Just about any 2 lane back road in the Sierras or the Rockies.

      TFL skips from Ike to offroad trails even though you have to travel some tough grades, in many cases, to get between the two.

      Beartooth Pass is pretty close to Denver, pretty tough I’d say.

      The only way to call these comparable tests, is to do them at the same time.

      Too many variables to call this the toughest test.

      I’ve seen a bunch of videos when the vehicle was slowed due to traffic. Of course this isn’t TFL fault.
      But they do call it the most difficult grade. And disbite all the warmings. Readers take the results as apples to apples gospel.

      1. Buddy, this where TFL does the test. Yes someone can find a bigger mountain. Your taking it the wrong way. This is the toughest comparison that any auto journalist does. Not the toughest test for individual personal use that you yourself can get a truck into.

    14. Johns,

      Again a lot of variables.

      Extremely high temp can increase the likelyhood of pinging. An 87 Oct engine may benefit from higher octane under these conditions.

      And we know the Ford will benefit from higher octane. Ford says so.

      Perhaps they should test cost per mile.
      Not MPG.

      1. Remember the engine temps are controlled via a cooling system. Even under high temps engine temps do not change much at all. That is because all modern gasoline engines are designed to operate under a specific temperature range. This is why a GM gas engine can run at 210° F in the middle of winter or the hottest of summers. Ford the same way. They are designed to run around the same temps. Summer heat only affects intake temps but really you are talking about a 70°F range for the most part. Yes i have done plenty of data logging. So i strongly disagree and have seen plenty of data to support an engine designed around 87 octane fuel under good working condition does not benefit with higher octane fuel. In fact it can loose power because the fuel is still burning on the exhaust stroke.

        1. Jimmy Johns – – –

          “So i strongly disagree and have seen plenty of data to support an engine designed around 87 octane fuel under good working condition does not benefit with higher octane fuel.”

          This is not quite the case. If your criterion is just acceleration (say, 0-60 MPH), fuel mileage, and HP, then what you said MAY be the case for some vehicles. But the premium versions of gasolines are not only higher in octane (obviously), but also have
          superior additive packages. Most credible well-known, premium brands nowadays have “Tier 1” packages or BEYOND. Shell V-Power, for example, is not only highly refined and filtered with more branched hydrocarbons, but has a package that comprises about 15-20%(!) by volume of the total gasoline-based fuel. It contains a 5-fold recipe:
          1) Very aggressive non-aqueous detergents to clean fuel lines, fuel pump, valves, and piston top surfaces;
          2) Aromatic ketones and aldehydes to react with and emulsify water to prevent corrosion everywhere in the system;
          3) Proprietary lubricants to deal with “dry contact” of the top piston ring with cylinder walls;
          4) A high concentration of volatile hydrocarbons (like pentane) to help with rapid starting at low temperatures;
          5) Pre-detonation suppression compounds (anti-knock) to allow proper combustion under a large range of engine load and RPM conditions.

          No “standard” lower grade gasoline (87 to 89 “octane”) can even come close to that; and Shell’s package is also far beyond ordinary “Tier 1” offerings from most other premium fuel manufacturers. That is why Shell V-Power is used as a preferred fuel for racing; for vehicle testing (such as in “Car and Driver”); and for preservation of vintage or classic vehicles.

          So, if you plan to “use up” your vehicle and keep it 10 years, fine: low-grade gas may be just fine. But if your criterion is to have the best overall, comprehensive performance from your vehicle, AND the preservation of it, — over 15-25 years (or more, for antique or “collector” vehicles), then Shell V-Power or something very comparable is a significant benefit.
          (Yes, I am a chemist familiar with petroleum formulations.)

          Frankly, I have 4 vehicles ranging from a 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 to a 2010 Nissan Frontier, — with a BMW Z4 and Jeep Wrangler in between — and have always used V-Power happily in all them, regardless of nominal “octane” ratings in their operator’s manuals.

          =======================

    15. By the way diesel has been considerably cheaper than even low grade gasoline for a couple years now, that would put the Ford EcoBoost at a considerable disadvantage to the diesel engines

      1. I don’t know where you live but where I am diesel is 10-20 cents more per gallon then 91 octane, and 40 more than 87. Makes driving my Jeep liberty CRD almost as expensive to drive as my F150 EB.

        1. Jay, I’m beginning to think he lives in his mom’s basement. He’s been spewing nonsense all over this thread. In my area right now, diesel is 10-20 cents higher than 87 octane gas and that’s the closest it’s been in a long time. Diesel generally runs 30-50 cents higher than 87 octane.

    16. Johns,
      yes skirt wear used to be a problem. Not so much any more. Diesels have always had longer life than gas engines.

      Skirt wear used to be blamed on lugging. Automatics with torque converters seemed to be the solution.

      A long stroke increases skirt wear. But not many engines with a longer stroke than the ram 6.7.
      So does high RPM.

      1. The stroke really does not matter when it comes to “lugging” an engine. If you are lugging it, the piston will attempt to rock in the bore.

      2. Isn’t skirt wear in longer stroke (gas) engines caused by the greater piston velocity for a given RPM?

        I could see the lugging being a bigger issue more recently. I was shocked by how much my brother’s 2015 F150 Ecoboost seemed to lug the engine when it wasn’t set to sport mode. It’d try to hold 6th gear at 1100 rpm or so, up hills and lug like crazy.

    17. Rambo,
      I have seen tests between Baker and Vegas.
      Out of Loftlon.
      Up the Grapevine.

      I’m not running down TLF truck. They do a admirable job at warning about comparing results.
      But viewers don’t listen.
      And what’s the point of the test?
      It’s not supposed to be bragging rights. It’s a test with many varables.

      But a major gripe I do have is that the tests don’t do cost per mile.

      MPG leave a false impression.
      Especially when many use the cost of a diesel engine when doing comparisons.

      Diesel out here has been 50 cents per gallon cheaper than regular gas for over 2 years.
      60 to 70 cents cheaper than high grade.
      That’s a huge cost.
      Remember the complaints about diesel when the opposite was true.

      There are other problems such as listing 11,500 as max towing rating.
      When the test was done at max legal at just over 9,000 lbs.

      1. Buddy, I Googled the shiyt out of the words you listed there, looking for a truck comparison up the grapevine. I cant find anything. Google TFL and you get immediate results of truck comparisons up the gauntlet.? I think you are taking the comment too seriously but when on camera you are subjected to scrutiny but I don’t get it on that aspect of your claim.

        As far as fuel goes, I agree, points have to be based on fuel prices and mpg has to be given a second seat. Mpg can be used for the user to determine their fuel choice and it helps the truck travel further per gallon between fill ups. However, the scoring has to use costs, at the time based on the test period, or my interest in this is lost and we are left a little bit bewildered, for me anyway, but I will come to my own conclusions in the end anyway. Its much worse over at PUTC, they actually gave the Raptor points for having more tow hooks and gave the Power Wagon no points for a locking diff, no points for a winch and no points for electronic sway bar disconnect in their off road review. You should see the sh!t storm over there.

        Most of what TFL does is fun anyway and the videos are enjoyable for the most part and a lot of work. I complain in good faith.

      2. Just for the record I’ve been at Baker loftlon and grapevine, one thing they don’t have is elevation that Eisenhower tunnel have. Buddy I don’t know how much tougher you want? Sure I guess you want to be 100 degree temperature for climbing ,but what is the point?

        50¢ cheaper for DSL? I’m little bit skeptical about that.

            1. No you don’t. I said,that ecodiesel is less expensive,than this $63,000 double turbo gasoline and fuel is less expensive.

            2. Option between the two engines is cheaper for the Ecoboost. That is the point that you are not telling. I could careless about weather the DSL gets better fuel mileage.

            3. I don’t care about the engine option. The whole truck with ecodiesel from RAM is less expensive than 3.5L ecoboost option.
              $63,000 is C$ 85,000. I wouldn’t pay C$ 40k for that 6 cylinder.
              Some people are gonna learn a hard way.

          1. Trim levels aside the Ecoboost is cheaper to purchase. Diesel is more expensive in my area. Diesel oil changes are more expensive everywhere. Have you driven an Ecoboost? Most people critical of them have not. Diesel torque, hot rod HP, competitive mpg, silky smooth, quiet. Please understand the ecodiesel will win most any truck mpg test because it has less HP than most economy cars. HP is the amount of work over a period time. It’s probably the most expensive engine in this regard.

            1. Hp is low in a diesel which saves fuel but the fuel itself has more energy per molecule but is a very dangerous exhaust hence all the emission controls that everyone is trying to cheat, thus polluting the air we breath. Not worth it in my opinion. Just go electric more torque and it’s instant. They are now making car batteries that charge in 7 seconds. Bye bye diesel

          2. If the f150 did the Ike at 45 mph I bet it’s mpg would be much more in line with the ecodiesel. I would argue that the ED’s 6.1 mpg is rather disappointing when you consider it was struggling to pull just 7600 lb trailer up the ike a minute and a half slower than the 2.7 Ecoboost that got a 4.3 while casually driving up the hill.

            You seem to be a diesel die-hard based on your comments, you ever opened up excel and done the math to see how much you really save per month by driving a ram ED and compared it to the total cost of the truck(loan, insurance, maintenance, fuel cost?) It’s literally single digits, even for a 35k truck.

            1. The Ecodiesel is a risky choice at the moment anyways. It’s unreal how many Ecodiesels have blown up at around 60-80k miles. There’s a lot of hysteria over it in the ecodiesel forums.

              FCA has changed the oil requirements twice now. I think they finally recommended T6 not too long ago.

            2. @Jay I agree. If these diesels were able to match the speed and acceleration of the EB gas motors than there mpg would take a hit.

            3. Yes, I had a 2 diesels and 1 commonrail turbodiesel . Ecodiesel would pay itself in 2.5 years. I did the math already, but I am driving HEMI, because the engine is worming up faster, where I am driving now. I would have an Ecodiesel otherwise, but diesel engines are so efficient, they don’t produce enough heat for my needs. I would not buy ecoboost and they would need to pay me to buy a used one, because of carbon issue.

            4. Current generation Ecoboost have dual injection which addresses the carbon issue. I would wager a diesel would need DPF cleaning/replacement before DI engines need cleaning.

    18. Johns,
      I know that. Does it change the fact that it is the diesel in the ram? Pops I didn’t capitalize ram. Will you criticize that.

      Of course I wasn’t talking about stroke and lugging. I was talking about the total distance traveled by the piston per revelution.

      In fact long stroke should reduce skirt loads due to lugging.

      1. Only piston design will reduce the skirt loads. Long stroke or short stroke makes no difference. If you lug an engine the piston will have a tendency to try and rock in the bore. A longer stroke could make it worse because the travel is longer while it is trying to side load. Bigger stroke work engines will have a longer skirt to distribute the load better.

    19. Johns,

      Engine temp can be at 210 while exhaust and piston temp well north of 1000 degrees.

      Coolant does help but hard working diesels cool the bottoms of piston to help maintain temp to resonate levels.

      1. Many gas engines have piston oil squirters also. The ford Ecoboost engines do, pretty sure the 5.0L does and some of the GM engines. This has been the norm for many years now. A gas engine has exhaust temps over 1000°F. So that is nothing new either. It used to be under high load gas engines would be ran at a slighter lower air fuel ratio to control temps. The ecoboost engines still do because of turbo charging but gas engines like the GM LS dont and they have to really monitor A/F and knock to prevent damage.

        Diesel engines also run about 15°F-20°F cooler than most gas engines. At least untill they are under load then they will reach over 200°F and oil temps rise above that.

        1. The problem with running lower A/F ratios is the fuel dilution is can create. I’ve seen used oil analysis reports showing as much as 4 or 5% fuel. No wonder some guys have timing chain problems while others don’t.

      2. Diesel engine exhaust also can rise over 1000°F. Some are getting close to 1200°F under load. Under regen the exhaust is over 1000°F for long periods of time to bake the DPF. One of the reasons the International maxforce 7 had piston failures in cylinders 7 and 8. Extra fuel was added to the exhaust stroke to create the extra heat to bake the DPF. That heat went from the cylinder, through the turbo and down the down pipe. Not a design i really like. I prefer the extra injector in the exhaust myself.

    20. I suppose you could nit pick and say it’s rod length not stroke that decreases skirt load. But it is foolish to have a long rod with a short stroke engine. And long stroke requires a long rod assembly.
      So I will specify that it is the rod length that can decrease skirt load.
      I wasn’t aware of the piston squitter’s on the Eco boost.

      But I don’t believe I would buy any modern engine truck, Even the diesels.

      This 63,000 dollar Eco boost would pay to totally rebuild two pre emissions diesel trucks. One for a spare when the original wears out at 400 thousand miles. LOL

      1. The GM 6.2/5.3/4.3’s since 2014 have the piston squirters. Used to cool the pistons at high load/rpm plus reduced wear at cold start.

    21. Rambro,
      no one is faulting the biggest part of the tests. Some minor disagreements.
      But many fault the claim that it is the toughest test.

      A great number of tests are performed around the Country by a number of magazines. I have read a number done on I15 to Las Vegas. Also on the Grapevine.

      Also as mentioned above Colorado has a great number of truly difficult roads to test on.
      And Bear tooth pass isn’t that far from Colorado. That isn’t that bad or narrow of a road. Just steep up and down. It would certainly be a great test road. It would test turbo lag that’s for certain. (doesn’t seem to affect long stroke Cummins). I will say I have never read of a test on that road though.

      That’s the type of road I travel for camping. I get off of interstates as soon as I can.

      1. Gkozy1, maybe give us a link of an auto journalist doing a tougher uphill loaded review that is a apples to apples comparison. Even a single truck by itself. I cant find anything?

      1. I would not even provoke those pickup truck .com guys. They need to leave their bash fest over there and stay away from here.

    22. Check out the owners manual for the F150.

      “Premium fuel is recommended when towing”

      Not regular , not mid grade….PREMIUM.

      That gets expensive after a while.

      1. Actually 87 is required and if towing premium is recommended but not required.

        page 178 owners guide

        Your vehicle is designed to operate on
        regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum
        pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.
        Some fuel stations, particularly those in
        high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as
        regular unleaded gasoline with an octane
        rating below 87. We do not recommend
        these fuels.
        For best overall vehicle and engine
        performance, premium fuel with an octane
        rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The
        performance gained by using premium fuel
        is most noticeable in hot weather as well
        as other conditions, for example when
        towing a trailer. See Towing (page 257).

        1. I believe you mean 87 is recommended, but premium is recommended when towing.

          Ford uses this recommendation with almost all their Ecoboost engines. The power numbers for the 2015 Mustang Ecoboost were made with 93 Octane. Running 87 octane results in less power.

      2. Mike do you tow your trailer every time you drive your truck. I bet you don’t. So it is just a little bit expensive when towing a trailer with Ecoboost. You make sound like it will break the bank to use premium gas when you know it will not.

      1. Well if the Davis Dam is greater than the Eisenhower in elevation and grade than you have a point. That may be a tougher test for trucks.

    23. I like the fact that they just use 87 octane for mpg and no cruise control on the descent. Might as well make it tougher to see what the trucks are made of. Passing power way up there with 9000lbs? Wow.

    24. Has anyone mentioned that the 10 speed might take more brake applications to get the truck do downshift from top gear down to whatever gear is best because it has more gears to go through? A brake tap is significantly different from having to actually ride the brakes. I would argue cumulative braking time and temperature is a more accurate measurement of descent control.

    25. I agree that the number of brake applications shouldn’t be included in the subjective part of the scoring. I was surprised that the 3.5 EB with the 10 speed transmission only got marginally better mpg than the normally aspirated Titan with the 7 speed. Since there are a lot of variables involved in this test the only way to make it more fair or more scientific would be to close the IKE and do all of the testing on the same day. That’s not likely to happen so we will just have accept the test the way it is.

    26. I love the tests and think they are the best on the internet. They are entertainment and many of us don’t live in the mountains. If you use your truck for work these test may or may not apply. I am interested in boring crap like turning radius and sight lines. I would like an obstacle course and think it would be fun to watch. A competition between the crew would be interesting as well. Not as glamorous as a run up the Ike but I sure did laugh when the young gun drove big green past the raptor. Keep up the good work.

    27. TFL is quickly becoming nothing but reports on F150 EB’s and Raptors…. love the channel guys but how can you be truly objective when you promote Ford so much?

      1. Ok so you have not seen the Nissan review and video, the Ram article? What would you like more of, more ram ecodiesel emissions scandal? What has GM done lately that is news worthy? Everyone loves to grip about the Ford articles but have nothing else to share when called out?

      2. Ford was the only one to show up in Detroit and they are all new. There is a lot more to cover with Ford than the other manufacturers have right now. They have bashed Ford in the past for recalls. I find they are not bias here, pretty fair and they don’t take the competitions too seriously.

        1. Since when have they “bashed” Ford in the past for recalls? Is reporting a safety recall or defect investigation “bashing” the brand?

    28. You two guys were so excited to finally get your hands on this 10 speed truck that I believe your subjective points are irrelevant. The Titan gasser had less brake taps, 3-4 seconds difference in time, same decibels, better mpg. Sure your not on the Ford payroll. Sales the most because of fleet government sales because it’s cheap and replaceable, I believe it’s the most unattractive truck ever, full of plastic.. give me my V8 thank you very much..

      1. The Titan was maxed out up the hill. The F150 had plenty of power left. The Titan was 2db louder. That is significant. The Titan also had worse mpg up the hill. But I don’t give any cares about up hill mpg. The Titan did have 1 less brake tap.

    29. What I have trouble figuring out…. the ram 1500 last year ran up the hill with a time of 7:44 with 3.0 mpg. And the ram 2500 with the Cummins had close to the same time yet the Ford 5.0 had a time over 8 min won the gold hitch award. The ram 2500 wasn’t even recognized in its class when Roman said 4 or 5 times “how impressed he was” with this truck. Starting to seem extremely biased towards Ford. The ecodiesel recorded best fuel economy on the 98 mile loop. Yes the ecodiesel recorded a slow time up the Ike… the GM midsize recorded the similar time with comparable mpg as well and that was praised on this site for a great ole run. Seems to me ram has the best line up of trucks and is not getting the recognition they deserve.

      1. Ram had the best time because Nathan was driving and he often went over 60 mph, sometimes hitting 70 mph. The 5.0 Ford and 5.3 GM were kept at 60 mph, which was suppose to be the limit. The run is 8 miles long so the math shows that 8:00 is the fastest you can go up the hill, slightly more time with initial acceleration.

      2. The Cummins 2500 was not considered because there is no 3/4 ton diesel golden hitch class. It was just a bonus truck sent by RAM. The awards are based on a point based system. You can argue the subjective portion, but it was still a big lead for the 5.0 Ford.

    30. There is basic theme Im reading the Post’s. that this Ike gauntlet test is just not tough or there to many variables.
      I don’t know many places where you can have a test of this magnitude, sure they could make it tougher tho I guess. But what is the point? They have stated several times that this test was with the same weight as the rest of the trucks. I don’t know that seems fair to me. 9000 lb is pretty good amount of weight to go up a steep MTN in thin air. They also said that are going to do MAX towing in the summer.

      We all like to have a perfect test with all the same trucks with same trailers and same gearing, but guess what? IT ISN’T GOING TO HAPPEN. Take the test they do and except as is what is. If you guys are smart enough you can make form decision among all the trucks that are tested. Just to get a truck from a particular manufacturer is probably a hard task in it self. Look how long it took to get 5.0 Ford pickup to test after the interduction? A long time.

      As for the test it self it seemed to be good. Tho I think you guys make way to much of the brake test. Ford better than the Titan the way I look at it.

    31. Another thing I took note of. some of posts I’m reading that DSL fuel is cheaper than gas. I can tell you I’m bit skeptical of that. In most states DSL has been anywhere from 25 to 50¢ more average over gas. Now if you are getting DSL fuel cheaper than gas that is great! But this would be a very very small amount retailers that is doing it. Becareful on DSL fuel there has been reports of poor quality at these cheap retailers. With modern dsls don’t take to poor quality dsl fuel very well.

        1. I was down in ar one time. the police had a DSL fuel check. Them farmers was getting 5000$ (at the time) tickets for none tax DSL fuel. Ooowwcchh! States do like to keep them farmers honest once and awhile.

    32. It will be very close for the Golden Hitch. 10 brake applications is actually middle of the road. Last year 6.2 GM had 14. It ended uo with 68 points so we will see if it does better this year. Seems that more gears = worse grade shifting, at least early on until they can program it smarter.

      1. Good point on the more geared transmission. Programs is still being dealt with in long steep down hill stretches. I Look at this is more minor issue.

    33. I am kinda curious if Ford has the capability to add an exhaust brake feature. Open the throttle body and close the waste gate when off throttle and you turn the engine into a giant air pump and use the flow to make boost. Boost requires HP, you get that HP from gravity.

    34. At almost 140 comments, I have to say Truck Nuts want to see more gauntlet runs. Bring on the V8’s and the diesels, for some more added controversy, lets get er dun.

      5 days and were into the Chicago Auto show….boo-ya

    35. I will admit it’s a nice truck, and it performed really well! The price is very high for a half ton truck though! I just built a pretty loaded up 2500 Silverado with duramax for $65,000. That’s the biggest problem I have with this truck. You can buy a fully loaded Denali 1500 for about $60,000. This thing is a Ford, so in my mind it should be cheaper.

    36. I’m love not this threat – now 150 posts! Wow! Geez, how dare Mr. Truck Guy give Ford an 18! It did surprise me because he said the truck was virtually perfect when towing yet pinged it with an 18 because of downhill braking when the truck still performed like a champ. I think this is just the result of so many gears couple with a smaller boosted engine. Do we care if it gently brakes? Does it matter that much? I’m asking because I don’t tow a lot. I know they have to have some formula for scoring but don’t think a truck that was near perfect in its towing abilities should have been pinged that hard. I personally wish Ford would grace us all with a boosted Coyote EIGHT with that TEN speed auto!

    37. Obviously 2 turbo’s help a lot vs a NA 8 cylinder. I would love to see this test at sea level. I live in Florida where it’s a100 degree’s 6 months out of the year.. I think the V8’s, like the Ram, Titan, 5.0, and Tundra would have plenty of reserve power going uphill. To say the V8’s are maxed out, let’s put 2 Turbo’s on the Titan or Ram . I just had too many maintenance issues with my old Ford. Don’t care for the look either. I know they sale the most but like I’ve said in the past who wants to be the 5th Ford to pull up to a Redlight? Not me. I like something different with a good V8 sound. We’re really splitting hairs here..

    38. While I somewhat agree about the subjective score thing I would like to point out two things. 1. A subjective score is based off of their opinions and feelings about whatever they noticed about the truck, in Mr. Truck’s opinion he felt let down by the grade shifting effectiveness, so I would say that it was subjective, especially if you look at the purpose of the test which is to test the truck based on its intended purpose, which is to tow and or haul. 2. I also noticed no one complaining about this when the Nissan Titan was tested, I guess the Ford crowd comes out en mass for their preferred vehicle. Ford makes a great truck, but I am a Nissan guy, and despite what the stronghold mindset American truck only people say Nissan makes a great truck too!

    39. What will the competition do when ram puts a twin turbo v6 in the half ton that puts out 500 hp? Ram may tune it down to 450hp.
      The Alfa Romeo Guilia motor.

    40. Well , brakes under load is most important for the truck.
      It’s ok for the light car to apply 10 brakes, but not enough for loaded truck going downhill and Mr. Truck knows why.
      I experienced a brakes overheating in the minivan and 5 people in it 17 years ago, because of my stupidity going downhil with manual tranny in neutral. I stopped the car, almost ripping off the steering wheel and will remember that feeling ,when car gains the speed and you push harder and harder looking for some trees to hit beside the curvy narrow downhill road for the rest of my life.
      Very,very terifying. You shold try it once. It’s easy to overheat the brakes with 9,000lbs behind you.I would suggest, to measure a brakes temperature going downhil. There must be a remote laser temperature device for that. You never know,how close to the disaster you are. Maybe 10 more brakes. Remember, it was cold winter time testing, not a hot summer driving downhill.
      It’s obvious, that ecoboost has enough power to pull, but doesn’t have enough resistance to slow down the heavy load and tranny is not going to help, doesn’t matter what you do with programming, because it needs to protect the engine from overrev. Only way to get it safely down the hill is manually shift to the second gear and go slowly, like semitruck, but than you loose all the time you gained going uphill. Very disappointing.

    41. engine braking should be looked at as a safe towing feature what good is it to have good brakes if you light them on fire from having to use to them why too often on a down hill with a heavy camper or trailer. point is engine braking not only saves the brakes of the truck but also quite possible the occupants of the truck and maybe the innocent motorist who is the wrong place when joe public with little to no experience is pulling a heavy trailer down a steep grade.

    42. looks like ford needs to reprogram the transmission so that it will offer better grade shifting on the down hills it seemed fine on the up hill and every where else you all have tested it.

      1. Well, it was already in tow/haul mode, so I am assuming, that engine has not enough resistance to slow that load down and trany needs to up shift to prevent the engine from destroying itself ,but I could be wrong and next recall might take care of it.
        Just imagine, how 2.7 is going to be pushed around downhill.

        1. Well I don’t think anyone stated that this Ford 3.5EB is the 3:55 gear ratio. The 3:73 gear ratio is available with the 10 speed for the heavy duty towing package that has to be selected. Might yield a better 0-60 time to put it ahead of the Raptors 0-60. The 3:73 gears would also help it slow down on the downhill where with that set up you may get 0 brake applications. It also would of went up the hill even more effortlessly.

        2. zvier aka putc ram, did you even watch any of the other test? The Nissan was 1 less brake touch. 14 for the GM 6.2L. So this combo seems to be right in line with every other player than can handle this load, Ford, GM and Nissan. You are so hard bent to bash Ford you fail to open your eyes to anything else.

    43. It also would of went up the hill even more effortlessly.

      No. It has enough gears already, but I agree, that it should help to prevent to push the brake pedal that often, but I doubt it’s going to be a zero and would hurt the empty driving MPG, so no one is going to get this option from the ford and pay the extra.

      1. Ram, that has to be completely false. Why would Ford use the 3:37 gears as a recommendation for the heavy duty towing package. The larger rear end will get more torque to the ground. The 10 speed transmission doesn’t change so every gear is going to deliver more torque to the ground with the larger rear end. Then on the way down the larger rear end gears will allow for more engine break torque. The 10 times Kent hit the breaks were very mild from what I can see from a few I saw in the video so the 3:73 gear ratio might have been enough to eliminate all braking. It is after all Fords gear ratio that you have to take with the heavy duty tow package. It just means your rpms at the motor are higher. If it didn’t give you more power to the ground then there would be no point in offering a rear end gear choice. The 3:73 is realisticly a better choice for all applications because very rarely will the 3:55 gears use the 10th gear. The 3:73 gears would get more use out of the 10th gear and maintain a drop in rpm similar to the 3:55 in 9th gear. But the 3:73 will produce more power to the wheels from 1st gear to 10th.

        The truck would be faster and hold the load back better on the downhill with the recommended 3:73 from Ford for the heavy duty tow package.

    44. I said I agree, but no one is going to pay extra and order 3.73, because they will see the number they can tow with 3.55 and it’s all they care about. No one think of braking going downhill. Not even me 27 years ago.
      Like I said, 10 speed has plenty of gears to get the max torque to the ground on any speed, so ecoboost won’t benefit from 3.73 going uphill.

      1. Zviera the larger gears in the rear end would benefit the motor. With the ten speed being equal the larger gears make it easier on the motor in each gear to be able to rotate the rear wheels. The longer the bar on a wrench the easier it is to turn a nut. The motor just needs to rev higher. So your revs are a little higher in every gear but the motor is not working as hard. Larger gears in the rear end with all else equal means the same motor will get more torque to the ground. This means the power in the motor is amplified by the rear end gear set for every one of the ten gears. This means your 0-60 will be faster so long as traction is available and the motor can rev and bring the vehicle to 60 mph. That is scientific fact. You can dispute it but you will be wrong.

        1. Rambro, he is a troll from putc. Dont even bother. He is likely getting tired of being attacked because he is always wrong on putc so he is coming here instead.

          1. As long as he buys a t-shirt he is welcome. And this thread is getting bigger than the Truck Nuts book. My thumb is dead tired from the scrolling. I need a computer

    45. Larger gear on the back means, that trany gears are speced closer together. 10 speed has already enough gears to get the max torque to the ground. Engine will run up the hill at the 6 gear with 3.73 rear end instead of 5 gear with 3.55 end. That’s all. Engine Rpm are going to be the same. You can’t magically install 5.0 rear end to get even better results up the hill wit 10 speed and Ecoboost. It will run it at 10th gear, but the engine Rpm woyld be the same. Got it ?

      1. I have to agree here. The gearing on the 10 speed is so close that there is less than a 1000 rpm drop between gears and sometimes as low as 500. I would be willing to be that the towing performance difference between the rear gear ratios would be marginal at best since the transmission makes up for it.

        Plus, with such a short first gear, the new 10 speed/3.31 is equal to the old 6 speed/3.73. You dont need a 3.73 rear with the 10 speed because chances are that it will be smoking the tires in first is you put the hammer down.

        1. Well Jay I’m on the Canadian site and that is what Ford recommends for the heavy duty tow package which is the 3:73 rear end. If it didn’t make a difference than why would they offer it.

          At cruise the difference would be negligible in all Lilly hood but under acceleration from gear to gear the larger rear end is going to accelerate the truck faster and in my opinion beat the Raptor since they are already so close. And the Raptor was a access cab vs an F150 quad cab and they were milliseconds apart. This makes the Raptor look bad which is one of my other implied points. Tires don’t have to spin in 1st gear if you use 4wd to launch.

          1. The max tow package in the US is 3.55 gears but it also includes heavier duty cooling, bigger sway bar, stronger hitch, 36 gallon tank, and I think forces the brake controller. You have to get the max-tow to hit the 12,000 lbs tow rating or whatever it is. The HD payload package is 3.73’s and comes with the max-tow package, but actually has a lower tow rating than the max-tow only trucks.

            If you spec a truck with 3.55 gears without the max-tow package it has the same tow rating as the 3.31’s and the 3.15’s at 10,700 lbs(crew cab 4×4). My guess is the increased rating on the max-tow package is due to the cooling and suspension improvements.

          2. Oh, and I was specifically refering to towing with the wheel spin. I dont think most people would put their trucks in 4×4 to put the hammer down with a 12,000 lb trailer.

            1. I doubt the tires would spin with the 1000lbs on the ball hitch. I would prefer the biggest gears I could get 3:73 because that gets more power to the ground and the 10 speed transmission would always bring the rpms down on the highway at cruise to save on fuel.

            2. I posted the Canadian towing specs and the 3:73 gear set typically puts you no less than 11,400 to 12,100. The 3:55 ranges close to 12,000 and down to 10,000 approximate so you can get the big tow numbers with the 3:55 but yes it is the heavy duty payload that requires you switch to the 3:73. Even though the Eco boost with the 3:55 looks to pull effortlessly with the 3:55 it will accelerate better with the 3:73 because it gets more torque from the motor to the ground in each gear under acceleration. I also noticed the 3:55 in the mpg loop on flat ground could not hold 10th gear. It kept dropping to 9 and even 8 in the video. The 3:73 might of held 10th better and made more use out of it keeping the avg rpm the same. But I like the fact the 10 speed will keep the rpms low with the bigger gears which makes the truck faster under acceleration.

              http://www.ford.ca/trucks/f150/specifications/towing/

            3. I will have to agree with the others here. When trucks were 4,5, and 6 speeds, gears made a difference. With 8 and especially 10 speeds, different rear end ratios make for such a small difference. Case in point: check out the putc comparison between the Chev and GMC 6.2l with different ratios. No noticable difference and that was an 8 speed.

            4. It’s just a marketing gimmick. They rate the shorter gear truck a thousand pounds more towing so stupid people shell out a few hundred dollars extra.

            5. Nihilus, the 3:73 gear set will put more power to the ground, it is scientific fact and not arguable under our current knowledge and education system.

              When you talk about the two V8s at putc, did they have the same tranny, same motor and did the trucks weigh the same with the same driver with the same tires on the same day?

              Fact is when you have 100lb-ft of torque from a motor pushing a smaller lever arm, you lose power at the wheel. This is why you need a longer wrench to break a wheel nut. More force gets to the nut with a longer wrench and more power makes it to the ground with a taller gear with all other parameters equal.

            6. OK Nihlus, that’s actually a pretty close comparison but we do not know the differences in weight of each truck. And take note that the GMC with the larger gear set was faster than the Chev with the smaller gear set and there may be driver error in there as well. Put the trucks side by side rather than looking at the numbers and the GMC will be out in Front and also take note that the CHE had a 3:31 ratio vs a 3:42 ratio which is an 11 point difference. The optional gear set in the Ford from a 3:55 to a 3:73 is an 18 point difference.

              Also look at putc when they dynode the Colorado and Canyon V6. Same motor, same tranny and the GMC produced a lot more HP and torque for some reason. WHY? Its almost apples to appples but it is not.

              With all things equal the larger gears give more power to the ground in each gear. That is just fact based math. How much extra? that would be very interesting to know.

            7. There was a video on this site of them drag rating a 2016 and 2017 with trailers and there was wheel spin. I doubt it even had the 3.73’s.

              No one is arguing that a shorter rear gear wouldnt apply more torque than a taller one to the wheels, what we are arguing is that it doesnt matter. Sure, for the two seconds you are in first the rear gear might make a small difference but once it starts shifting that all goes away. Certainly once you are going 60mph in 5th or 6th and you could up or downshift 3 gears it doesnt.

            8. Jay there are certainly others still arguing that the taller gear set does not get more power to the ground. And I differ a little on your opinion that it doesn’t matter at cruise but certainly under acceleration. If the truck is in fifth gear at 3200Rpm at 60mph up the hill with the 3:55 and 3300rpm in fifth gear at 60mph then the engine despite revving 100rpm higher is not working as hard, so it may switch to 6th gear or not. However when you need to pass, only 3rd gear may be available as 2nd is no longer a choice when you mash the throttle so the truck will have more power in every gear as it steps into its cruise position which then may balance out depending on speed and power required. And I agree the difference at cruise is likely negligible but not under acceleration.

              Another factor that may change this is if the truck with the 3:73 comes with different computerized shift points. Like some have said the computer will learn but what if Ford changes the input parameters when they change to 3:73. It might be a completely different experience that one would expect that it would hold rpms for longer which would help on the amount of brake applications, so that is another geek factor that is not known. And the tranny shift points would have to be altered electronically imo from the factory and what Ford does there is likely not known unless it is tested.

            9. Thomas, the Chevy was a 3.23 geared ruck and the GMC was a 3.42 – that is a 5.9 PERCENT difference. Going from a 3.55 to a 3.73 is a 5.1% difference. On the PUTC article, the trucks were very comparable in options. It is possible that the manufactures put different shift points in, but that just proves my point that the “tow packages” are just a fabricated gimmick with the 8 and 10 speed trucks.

            10. Nihilus, why are you saying it is impossible to change shift points. All they have to do is change the programming via a chip calibrated for the gear set. They have to do it, even the speedometer may be affected. I can buy computer chips aftermarket that change my shift points for 400 dollars. What are you talking about; its impossible? And your math is out to lunch. It is an 11 point spread VS an 18 point spread meaning the comparison of the two chev’s with different gear ratios is not as pronounced as a Ford with a 3:73 vs a 3:55

              And you did not explain why the 2015 Canyon with the same motor and same tranny had way more HP and torque than the 2015 Colorado. So your argument that the chev is the same thing as the GM could be flawed as well. They may have different programming characteristics, its unknown. You are assuming

            11. Thomas –
              First of all, I don’t recall even saying ‘impossible.’ Second, the Chevy was a 3.23 axle ratio. My math was correct as the percentage change is what really matters and NOT the absolute value. Lastly, what does the Canyon and Colorado have to do with anything we are talking about?

            12. Hold on, I know why. I was talking about the putc V-8 shootout. You must be referring to another article.

            13. Nihilus the Colorado and the Canyon are GM products just like the LTZ Chev and SLT GMC 1500’s you referenced were the same trucks with different gears. You stated it made hardly no difference. But I looked there and the GMC with the larger gear set beats the Chev with the smaller gear set but not by much. However, these are two different trucks and if you argue that they are not than why did the Canyon produce so much more HP and torque than the Colorado in the 2015 midsize shootout on putc

              I still don’t agree with your math, even your percentage is not correct 18/373 is 4.8% greater than 11/342 at 3.2% And by all common sense I can see a 373 is a bigger jump over a 355 vs a 331 to 342, just ridiculous to argue that.

              And again, it is very easy to change your shift points. Ford may have a program that takes 5 seconds to switch via a programmer for Fords with a 3:73 which will alter the shift points for both acceleration and deceleration

            14. Oh you said possible, but than said the diff gears are a gimmick. I doubt it is a gimmick but possible. If it is not it is possible that the 3:73 is a completely different truck because it is possible to make it hold shift points longer with more torque and HP getting to the wheels.

            15. I think the max towing and payload packages, at least on the ford, are all about cooling and suspension performance. Going from 3.55’s to 3.73’s offers no increase in maximum GCWR. Going from 3.31’s to 3.55’s offers no increase in GCWR. The only time GCWR is changed is going from non-max tow with 3.55’s to max-tow 3.55’s.

              That suggests to me that the limiting factor in towing is not power/gearing but the suspension and cooling. I think any gear set ford offers could pull 12,000 lbs just fine. Are there slight differences, sure, but I wouldnt worry about it.

              And honestly, the chances of pulling 12,000 lbs without exceeding payload or tongue weight are pretty low. The 10,xxx lbs that the non-max tow trucks can tow is plenty for a half ton. You really need an HD Payload F150 towing a 5th wheel or goose neck to get close to 12,000 lbs.

            16. And FYI, my current 2014 F150 has the max tow package with 3.73’s. Back then the max-tow package offered a 350 lb higher GVWR as well as the higher GCWR so there was a much larger benefit. These days with the 10 speed and all the trucks having the same GVWR I see very little benefit to the max-tow package.

            17. Jay, I am not so much on the band wagon about max towing. I am just saying that the 3:73 will get more power to the ground under acceleration for a fact with the same tranny and engine and that it is possible that the shift points change and possible that it is going to be a slightly different experience when pulling.

    46. zveir aka putc ram, i dont know why you are so bent on the brake touchs and Ford. GM was 14 for the 6.2L, 10 for the 5.3L. fiat was 9, toyota was 11 and Nissan was 9. This truck was not the lowest which was the Ford 5.0L and 3 touches or the highest GM 14.

        1. They did 2 brakes on Ike Gauntlet test a year ago on very bad road , very slushy conditions.
          It will be zero on the same dry road conditions, like ecoboost was running.
          That’s what I believe and there is nothing you can do. Anyhow, 2 is 5 times better than 10. Are you still hurt, because you were never right on PUTC ?
          Get over it . At least you don’t argue about a rear end anymore, because you know, that I am right.

      1. Zvier, I understand the truck will switch gears based on the tranny set up and that all depends on the load and the speed. However, in between gears there is an rpm range where the truck may hold fifth gear in both the 3:55 and 3:73 rear end. In this case the motor is not working as hard if the rpm range allows both gear sets to stay in fifth gear at 60mph. Then the motor is not working as hard. If it has to switch to 6th because the rpms got too high with the 3:73 rear end then yes, now we are back to the same ratio. However, that depends on specifics and sweet spots. The fact is as the truck accelerates it has an easier time in first gear to 10 gear. Fact is if the 3:73 gears are at a higher rpm and stay in a sweet spot in fifth gear and the 3:55 is in fifth gear the motor although revving faster is not working as hard and may or may not switch to 6th gear. If we just look at first gear for a minute, this is fact. Let’s say you floor the truck from a stop and the motor produces 470lb-ft of torque through the exact same transmission, nothing is different, the power is the same and the transmission is the same except you have taller gears in one situation vs shorter gears, the taller gears under the same power are easier to turn thus that extra power is given to the wheels which launch you forward faster because the short gear robs power, like grappling a short wrench to take a wheel nut off is impossible. You get more torque to the ground with bigger gears and that is a scientific fact. The engine will not produce more power when it’s maxed out to turn a smaller gear. More power to the ground means the truck will slow down better under engine breaking with a larger gear in the rear end and the motor will in all likelihood not work as hard under cruise speed up the hill and is guaranteed not to work as hard getting the truck up to speed through 1st, 2nd,3rd and fourth

    47. Sorry, I am not gonna read that. This statement:
      “It also would of went up the hill even more effortlessly. ” is simply wrong.

    48. Oddly enough, the 5.0 might actually do slightly WORSE with the 10 speed. Given the same 32″ tires, 3.55 axle (the most common ratio), and 60 mph limit that the last 5.0 ran, it was able to downshift to 2nd (1:2.34) at the very hard parts which gives you 5200 RPM, which is very close to peak hp. The lowest usable gear on the 10 speed for 60 mph is 3rd (1:2.14) which would be 4800 RPM. Rough estimate of 25 much needed horses lost.
      The 3.5 had 2 gears to spare before it got to its max HP RPM of 5000. It ran in 5th at 3500 RPM (313 HP) with the 3.73 gears. 3rd gear would be at the perfect 5000 RPM (375 hp) mark. Given the same speed, the amount of weight total (GCWR) should scale up linear with power. 313 HP was able to bring up 15k lbs (est), so 375 HP should be enough for 18k GVWR or a 13k lb trailer! This math does not carry over to N.A. engines as they take a bigger hit at altitude. I did not need to compensate for altitude here since it would cancel out on both sides of the equation (3500 RPM is 83% of the EB’s max power no matter what the losses.)
      Geek out over.

    49. Bonus round nerds.
      The 313 HP that the EB used is actually about 282 HP if you compensate for 10% loss at 10k ft elevation. This is about what a 400 HP N.A. truck puts out at said altitude with a 30% loss, which is typical for an N.A. truck. So, IOT pull 15k GCWR up the IKE, the 5.7 hemi, 5.0 Ford, 5.3 GM, and 5.6 Nissan needed pretty much everything they could give. As for the 6.2 GM…It will most likely come with 3.42 gears. 2nd gear will also be too short on the 8-speed, so it would run in 3rd (1:2.08) which would be 4500 RPM. Peak HP of 420 comes in at 5600 RPM, so it will be pushing hard for sure.

      1. The torque and HP curves are also way better than the NA V8’s. They only get big HP in a short peak RPM range. The EB motors are not linear they run at almost peak torque throughout a big rpm range and HP is similar as well making them a superior engine choice.

        And remember that is engine HP at the motor. The larger gear set like the 3:73 vs the 3:55 with the same transmission will produce more power to the wheels in each gear set especially under acceleration and deceleration which may have slowed the vehicle better.

        The smaller V6 vs V8, argument that a V8 will slow a truck down better makes no sense. Its all about the power in the engine and how it is mapped with the tranny and gear set. With industry leading torque that motor just needs to learn or be mapped better or the 3:73 gears may have slowed it down better.

      1. ya if we get to 300 posts his head might not fit in the Eisenhower Tunnel. Maybe that’s why the gauntlet videos stopped.

      1. With the off road reviews, the Chigago Auto Show, the gauntlet and other car reviews it is likely that they are overwhelmed. Or he hates us LOL

    50. @Rambro
      It looks , you keep spreading this nonsense and you won’t stop. Only final ratio is important for the total torque you get to the ground for each gear. Not just the rear end. Calculate the final ratio for each gear and 2 different rear ends . Only then you can say which combo gets the best power and torque to the ground,for the speed you want to meet, when engine produces most power and torque. That’s why your statement was wrong,because with 3.73 end ,5 th gear could be too slow and 6th too fast for the engine to keep up and with the 3.55 rear end, the 5th gear could be just perfect for the maximum power and torque for the speed,they run this test.
      Go to some school please,for a mechanical engineering or at least read some books before you post a false informations again.

      1. Zvier, you are completely wrong and everything I stated about a 3:73 gear getting more power to the ground is a fact. It is how we currently understand math. Move to another planet if you want to contest me. Maybe you can find some proof there for your false statements. Here is an article for you along with millions more online for your research in finding a flaw to contest on your new planet

        Again fact, the Ford will have more power and accelerate faster with the 3:73

        http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Why_a_shorter_rear_gear_will_accelerate_the_car_quicker

        1. Rambro ,you don’t even know, what the definition of the Power is. You better look it up.
          You can’t create more power with just 3.73 rear end . That would be a magic source of energy.
          Your math is from where ? Ford won’t have more power you moron. The power is the same.
          You started to talk about an acceleration now ?
          What happened to: “It also would of went up the hill even more effortlessly ?”
          Let’s put 6.9 rear end on the ford and it will fly in 2 minutes up the Ike Gauntlet with 30,000 lbs behind the Ecoboost. Wow. I hope you won’t harm anyone with your math.

          1. Thank you. You can not increase power through gearing – only wheel torqe. Since the tires will be rotating at a slower speed at a given rpm, the power stays constant no matter what the gear ratio.

            1. Nihilus and Zviera you are just trolling at this point. My point has always been that more power is created at the wheels which is factually true. I did not say more power is created at the engine if you read all the posts. And Zvira you cannot keep increasing the gear size and benefit from it as your ratio eventually makes first gear too short. You really need to research this for yourself. I have and understand that I am correct. Ford offers it for those who want more bottom end and acceleration. The mapping may also be adjusted to hold rpm longer for people who choose this gear set which makes the truck quicker and may hold its rpm longer for the downhill thus, less brake applications as each gear will have more available power at the wheels. That’s a fact. You really need to do the research

      2. Correct! You need to factor in transmission ratio, rear end ratio and tire size. In some cases, going to a shorter rear end gear may actually HURT performance when the target is, say 60 mph, for max power since the truck will have to shift to the next gear to prevent overrevving. As manufactures keep adding gears, rear end ratios matter less and less except for the first and last gear since the gears in between will start overlapping in a sense as you change rear end ratios.

    51. If lower gears ( taller) aren’t better for towing heavy why does ford use only their lowest gear ratio (4.30) on their f450 pick-ups. This is also why ford uses the same engines and transmissions on all their f350-f750 trucks. They do however, use heavier duty rears with lower (taller) available gears on their heavier f650-f750 trucks. Kent, being a lifetime truck driver can you comment here?

      1. The shortest gears will always increase the maximium that can be towed, which is the only objective of the F-450, however, the shortest gear is not always the BEST at towing a certain weight at a certain speed. eg. An F-150 with a 5.0 could tow more weight with 4.10 gears vs 3.55 gears. However, it would tow a 9k trailer slower up the ike since 2nd gear would be overreving at 60 mph.

        1. The 8 mile long ike qauntlet run is not at say a 7% grade for the entire run. So yes there might be some spots on the run say at mile 4.3 that the 3.55 might be more efficient. But the ike qauntlet is like any mountain road and the grade varies on the way up between less than 1% grade and about 7% changing constantly so no vehicle can pull the entire mountain in any one gear without shifting or varying rpm while towing near there towing limit. But I repeat over the entire 8 mile run the 4.10 gears will pull the hill better.

    52. I understand that and the 3.55 gear truck will shift to 3rd gear while maintaining 60mph in the easy spots. The 4.10 gear truck, however, will NOT be able to downshift to 2nd in the harder spots which will cause it to bog down and run slower.

      1. Nihilus. LMAO. Now there isn’t enough gears with a 3:73 but there is for a 3:55. Come on seriously. The 3:73 is the stronger gear set that puts more power to the wheels. That’s a fact. The 3:73 will pull better and get a better 0-60. I understand it may switch one extra gear before 60 and slow it down due to the time it takes to shift. And there may be a speed and a load that hits just the right speed where power at the wheels could be the same, maybe slightly less but doubt it with a 10 speed as the 3:73 is a big multiplier compared to the incremental 10 speed ratio between each gear. But overall the 3:73 is an easier gear to pull for the motor.

        1. Rambro “The 3:73 is the stronger gear set that puts more power to the wheels. That’s a fact.”
          No. The power is same. You still didn’t look up definition of Power.

          1. Don’t add conflict to the human language Zviera. You know what is meant and are at this point just being a Troll

            1. He is a troll. he comes from putc known as zveir and RAM. He is always wrong and continues to try and work different angles and change the subject to try and appear to be right. He really needs to go back to putc and stay there. I have already caught him in several lies here.

            2. jimmy johns, I am believing that at this point. Zviera you are obviously trolling at this point. Nothing factual is sticking in your head. You just want to wage war by twisting your angle. A 3:73 truck vs a 3:55 gear set will differ, otherwise every truck manufacturer would be wrong to offer it as an option.

    53. Interesting, so your saying that every truck manufacturer in the world has been wrong when they recommend their lower gear ratios if you tow a lot. I don’t think so.

          1. If you want your trandmission shifting and hunting for the correct gear constantly yea you may have a point. However the more a transmission has to hunt the quicker that transmission will fail over time.

          2. Zviera the first gear is good enough agreed. However, the 3:73 gear will still get more power to the ground and makes it easier on the motor to accelerate. Therefore if you have to floor it the truck with the 3:73 will be faster and hold itself back better on the downgrade. And sure you can make a specific situation work for your argument but overall driving situations will not allow for it. The 3:73 is better and easier on the motor for pulling. Better fuel mileage will come with the 3:55 for overall mpg empty/towing mix. People who prefer more power over mpg will choose the 3:73

            1. Rambro “The 3:73 is the stronger gear set that puts more power to the wheels. That’s a fact.”
              No. The power is same. You still didn’t look up definition of Power.

            2. Again Zviera, you are spinning language to suit your argument. Do you work for CNN. Fact is the wheels get more torque/power to the ground with the 3:73 vs the 3:55

            3. Actually Zviera, since you are so belligerent I will follow with this. The definition of power is work/time.

              WORK is moving the load from point A to point B

              TIME is how long it takes to get the work done

              Since the 3:73 moves the load from point A to point B faster during a 0-60 run than more Power had to make it to the ground, but power remains the same at the engine, but not between the tire and the ground.

            4. Zviera, Torque is Power and I gave you the full definition, Formula based to prove what Power is and more Power has to get to the wheels to move the work faster. You are not a humble person, rather belligerent.

            5. “Power had to make it to the ground, but power remains the same at the engine, but not between the tire and the ground.”
              You really are a moron. The 3.73 gear truck was faster because the RPMs were faster so power at the engine was NOT the same.

      1. No manufacture has specifically 60 mph when selecting gears. You clearly didn’t read any of my responses.

    54. Rambro, you are correct about the lower ratio gearing. The lower ratio gearing in the rear differential the more the supplied engine power is multiplied. This results in better acceleration like you mentioned and towing performance. There are also different variables like transmission gear ratios and even the torque converter lockup strategy. Keeping the torque converter unlocked will double the power input into the transmissions input shaft. The side affect of that is increased heat generated. So most manufactures unlock the converter in first gear and in certain conditions to a point. It really is the whole drive line package that affects the towing. You can have a low rear end ratio but if your transmission ratios are really high you can give up power to the ground as you mentioned. When it comes down to it, this test puts this truck right in the middle of down hill engine braking. Under the conditions of this review. The owners manual clearly states to manually downshift the transmission for better engine braking. But they keep everything on equal plane and the F150 dominated up hill and came in average for down hill. There was no sign of the brakes overheating and this is likely the most harshest test that could be encountered. One thing that was clear is that 3.5L was not being worked hard. When it is pulling 9000lbs up a steep hill at 3000 RPM when peak power is close to 6000, it had much more in it.

      1. Wow. “It had much more in it.”
        You are right. Why would you put 3.73 rear end on it then ? To slow it down ?

          1. It doesn’t need to be easier on the engine, because, like Jimmy said ,the engine has a power to spare,which I agree with. It will be slower because of slower rear end and would need to shift more frequently to get to the 55Mph speed.
            But let me ask you, Why to stop just with 3.73 rear end? Why not to get a 6.0 ?
            It would be even faster by your logic. LOL.

            1. Zviera, if you went to a 6.0 it would be faster to a point where you lose first gear, but not just lose first gear, lose the feasibility of first gear. Ford capped it at 3:73 as there are limits to the benefits of going to a larger gear such as mpg and the driveability to the consumer is another factor. Management is typically frugal and wont build a 0-60 F150 when it messes with there mpg and driveability. Ford capped it at 3:73 as their sweet spot for sales is what I assume.

            2. putc ram, you comment makes on sense at all. What is a slower rear end? The F150 would have made it up the hill in the same time even if it was using a 3:31. In fact it may shift less to get to 60 mph because of the larger ratio spread.

            3. The 3:31 would likely find a balance at cruise as well, but if I reverse the scenario of adding a 6:0 gear; instead of a 3:31, why not use a 2:0? The tranny starts to hunt for gears and works hard and acceleration from 1st to fourth would be horrendous. 0-60 in a week. LOL

        1. I dont believe it would slow down better with a 3:73 vs something like a 3:31. A lower ratio multiplies to the torque more than a higher ratio. So if you can keep the RPMs higher for downhill resistance but keep the ratio higher to create a greater load, you will get better grade braking. The only way to prove this though is and equal test with different gear ratios.

          1. Agreed, but I think the 3:73 would hold it back better as the gear ratio would be a bigger multiplier than the rpm downshift points. If both trucks are in fifth and the 3:73 is at 3200 -4000rpm, before it shifts to 6th by itself it will hold fifth gear stronger throughout that rpm range. The 3:55 may be in fourth to equal the final ratio out but then the transmission is taking on this work rather than the diff. This all depends on the sweet spot vs speed vs load but I believe the 3:73 has more sweet spots than the 3:55.

            And this is where I am saying Ford may make the shift points hold a larger rpm before it shifts to 6th. Say the 3:55 shifts to 6th on the downgrade at 4000rpm all by itself, where Ford may tune the tranny to upshift to 6th on the downgrade at 4200rpm. Its a five minute adjustment to the tranny when the 3:73 is put in.

            But we don’t know unless we try each truck and likely no one from Ford will care to answer this quarrel. But its a good debate with solid reasoning for each case.

            1. I would love to tinker with the grade braking myself to see if manual control would be better. Or if the TFL crew did not allow enough time for the TCM to fully adapt to the conditions. Most transmission calibrations require some “learning”. I would have figured that a V6 would have the worst grade braking but i was clearly incorrect. I may have to take a look at the GM video because it needed 14 grade brakes. And that was likely a 3:42 so my theory may be flawed. But the ram had a 3.92 and it was a 4×2 and was the same as the Ford.

            2. jimmy the gearing in the rear axle would differ considerable from the various transmissions in the different trucks. It is not an apples to apples comparison.

      2. I agree with everything you said. But there are much bigger hills that take up to an hour to get from the top to the bottom. Much larger than the gauntlet. Do you really want to pump brakes for an hour? There would be nothing left of your brakes with 12,000Lbs vs the 9000-Lbs here and owners tend to pull more than the recommended load. Many overload their minivans as well. So despite what many have said including me, the downhill points are really relevant the way TFL has scored it.

        I think with the same transmission and same engine that it is possible the truck would have slowed better down hill with the 3:73, including the geek factor that Ford may make the transmission hold gears for longer with the 3:73 option by electronically changing the downshift points for those who need more than the 3:55 set up.

    55. Rambro, what kind of hills take an hour to go down. I think after 20 minutes i would be worn out. I have taken my motorhome down some long hill while towing my car and even though the speed limit was higher i kept speed around 35 MPH. It was about 15 minutes (seemed longer) of using manual engine braking and slowing the motorhome down with the brakes and allowing it to get up to a higher speed before trying to slow down again. In an effort to keep the brakes from overheating i used as much engine braking as i could but at 24000 lbs, it is a lot of weight to keep slow with a gas engine.

      1. When I drove through BC driving Big rigs I had just 60,000Lbs on a tractor trailer capable of an 80,000Lb gross load so I was able to go a little faster than a fully loaded truck. I even got the chance to Bobtail a 475HP cat in a Kenworth and I was able to blow by 4cylinder cars that could not maintain the speed limit up the hill. The hills in BC and other areas will really put a perspective on these gauntlet test if you have seen it, if you haven’t then they may not feel as important, as the video does not do it justice. I only got to go out there twice with light loads. But some of the larger 120,000Lb trucks would literally have to crawl down the hill, they would go down so slow they could read a book on the way down and get out and have a piss before the back of the trailer passed them, joking, but speed is a big factor. The largest passes are said to be 40 miles in length to come down, so if you are at 40 miles per hour on the way down to get to a point where your truck will hold the load vs too many brake applications then it can take an hour or longer to get down larger passes, larger than the gauntlet/Eisenhower pass. Just Google the largest highway mountain passes and Google their length/miles up and or down. It is on the net.

    56. Agree, i have been on nothing like that so it would be hard for me to put it into perspective of some of those hills. But a good exhaust brake would likely come in handy on something like that.

    57. I see calculators for mph vs rear end vs drive ratio on line. If we had the drive ratio’s from the 3:55 vs the 3:73 via the new 10 speed we would know which gear gives more power to the ground via a certain speed given the rpm input that we add to it. We still wouldn’t know where Ford buried their automatic calibrated shift out points though; as to when to make the tranny automatically switch. Might be different based on the gear set chosen.

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